What is a fadingxero's Notebook! - Page 5

why do laptops have such trouble changing graphics cards (unless they are the intergrated kind)? what makes the motherboard/ anything else so tough to correctly change the graphics card (is it soldered onto the motherboard or something? even if it is soldered, isnt it technically still possible to change the graphics card? or is it "impossible" due to risk?)
how long you think the 9800gt will last to play games on max spec?

Notebooks manufacturers see them as a good source of "new" products income. One cannot expect them to offer a post-sale easy update system as norm. Furthermore mobility GPU manufacturers would rather stay with a constant source of buyers and at the same time staying away from getting headaches from private buyers support.

cheers ...

but wouldnt the companies be making more money if the graphics card could be upgraded? or is this a sort of "the whole laptop" kind of deal where they want an entire laptop sold? if you make a laptop, are the graphics cards able to be upgraded? or even using a desktop laptop instead of a mobile graphics card (if even possible)?

Dell and Alienware are the ones that I know offering this "upgrade" on some of their models. But to look at their sales, I am not sure that would justify the "making more money" strategy.

cheers ...

do any companies make laptops that are fully customizable?

actually, there are at least 20-30 notebooks from various companies that have upgradeable graphics cards via the MXM specifications, but that number is small in comparison to the hundreds of models that do not have upgradeable graphics. Check out www.mxm-upgrade.com for the full list.

As Q said, making graphics upgradeable is generally not as profitable for notebook manufacturers because making the graphics cards to a specific set size, shape, and mounting style can restrict their overall design freedom. Since it's also a feature that comparatively few people who buy notebooks will ever use, most computers are simply not built with the option.

aww my asus isnt on that list
arent processors rarely upgraded also? the only people who would upgrade a processor or graphics card would most likely be a gamer/art person...so are processors upgradeable because its just easier to make a small processor?

To the best of my knowledge, processors are upgradeable because unlike ATI & Nvidia, who sublicense their GPUs and let other companies build the actual graphics cards, Intel and AMD make the processors themselves, so having a common CPU socket makes more sense to integrate. Plus, CPUs are typically smaller than graphics cards so designing the sockets into motherboards is easier.

so that means not all graphics cards are built the same...meaning one say...260m gts is not necessarily of the same quality as another 260m gts from a different company?

I thought all nVidia graphic cards are using nVidia's MXM feature, which means same board shape and Type-A or Type-B socket layout design for universal plug 'n play. But from what people say they're not compatible even with same socket type.

I guess mainboard is the limit.

http://www.mxm-sig.org/main.cfm?action=about

As usual Djembe I think nailed it a few posts back. While I am certain profitability does come into play in why notebook GPU's are not upgradeable. As Djembe said size and space are the main reasons. You have to fit into a very confined space. Notice how the upgradeable ones are in larger notebooks?

Further even upgradeable ones are severely restricted. DeLL for example has a proprietary variation of the MXM connection so if they don't offer ain't going to happen on a DeLL. But notice this does protect DeLL and making a profit? So I really think the technical issues exceed greed in this example. I don't know about Alienware at this point. Clevo is the other one that offers MXM.

This discussion of why are CPU's upgradeable/more compatible than GPU's? My thoughts even if kind of a tangent are. Consider the entire notebook is built around the CPU's. The GPU's to a large extent are a specialized sub system that in many ways could be compared to the entire system. It has a processor and it's own RAM. CPU's are just a part the notebook makes it a "system". The GPU is an all in one. Much more complicated and space is at a premium.

And fading to your questions yes most even discrete GPU's are soldered to the MoBo.

Terms like IGP, dedicated, discrete and on board do blur some lines. Integrated is a very imprecise term. On notebooks You can have an integrated that is dedicated or discrete. Some IGP's even have their own side ported RAM blurs the dedicated line? The more precise terms would be discrete for on board RAM and modular for upgradability. At least that is what I think.

As far as unsoldering a GPU? Many/most solders are done by automated PCM's not by hand. The solders are just too small too close to each other and while maybe could be done? OEM's do complete MoBo replacements. And there must be a reason.

I have just learned to accept it is just the way it is. I must tell you going from a ATI 1150 IGP to a ATI HD3650m makes it much easier. When I had the 1150 I was desperately looking and reading how to improve or replace. Never happened.

Interesting on the automated PCM solder. That explains my dead laptop's mobo has a large missing chip and 4 memory IC solderable parts, i was thinking if that can be intergrated 'discrete' GPU. (dead laptop = seems like rather dead CPU, going to replace and test see will bring to life)



But is it possible that the upgrade by a-PCM will work? Wouldn't that required BIOS firmware upgrade on certain/most mobos? And is that the only way to upgrade thier discreted graphic on those non-MXM mobos?

what is the point of soldering the grapics card to the mother board? is this part of the profit/space/not want people to mess around idea? and i believe alienware does use mxm sometimes...whats PCM?
essentially...my laptop will only last (for gaming purposes) as long as the graphics card is supported?

as mentioned in many posts above, notebook designs and the not-so-easy access (and product strategy) make it simpler to have the GPUs fixed!

This is not TRUE! Games will support all available platforms and hardware configuration. If you want more performance for newer games, you'd need better performing hardware. Same thing as with everything else - cars, houses ...

I can understand your (and other consumers) wish to buy one something expecting it to last and perform into the next 10 years, but this is not how consumerism and economy works. Maybe you should create your own notebook manufacturer and offer this strategy to the consumers, and see how long your company would survive!

cheers ...

I typed PCM I meant PMC=programmable mechanical controller, so a robotic. The circuitry is so tight hand soldering is not a realistic option.

The long and short is most GPU's are not replaceable. Those that are, are seriously restricted in options.

We can talk all day and all night about the whys. But it is the way it is and since we can't change just accept.

So anyway I still like Duals over Quads because higher clocks and lower thermal load. Along with the lack of quad threaded support. I do know Quad is the future.

oh well... as another (probably annoying) question, how are some graphics cards configurable but in a restricted manner? by restricted do you mean merely that you have to send it in to the company for them to do it for you (which in turn severely limits customization) or are you talking about the mxm graphics cards, which, if i read correct are used by mounting them on your old graphics card?
what do you guys think is next: 6-core processors or octocores? amd might try to make a pentacore but like the tricore, will probably never be very mainstream.

You are going OT here fadingxero!

6-core, 8-core, 10-core? Restricted Configurable GPUs? Try these questions to the manufacturers yourself?

I personally do not find your queries annoying, rather believing that you are "playing/toying" with NBF members that, in good faith and good personal know-how, are sharing good inputs to your quest of finding a good system for your hard earned $$$.

cheers ...

Companies will occasionally have multiple versions of motherboards that fit in the same chassis, each having a different graphics card. You can't change the graphics card yourself because you'd actually have to replace the whole motherboard.

Regarding what core structure processors are coming next, desktops and servers will have hex-core (6) CPUs within the next year, and it's very possible that there will be octo-core (8) CPUs released in 2011, but my guess is that notebooks will stay at 4 cores until 2013 or so, when they'll jump directly to 8. However, that's just my speculation.

apparently intel already made a hexcore processor
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=36947
the xeon x7460...at 2.66 ghz...however its retired/discontinued so...ebay anyone?