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mobile i7, SLI, and hyperthreading questions

post #1 of 72
10/3/09 at 1:34am
Thread Starter 
HI GUYS!!!!

sooooo to the questions...

1) regarding the clarksfield mobile i7s... will the best one (the 2ghz one) be able to run dragon age origins on its highest qualities? or at least in theory? just in case, the recommended processor speed is 2.4ghz QUAD CORE...but since these numbers came out a while ago i assume the requirements regard core 2 quads. i have heard that clock speeds are not everything that matters in a cpu to determine its capabilites and i was wondering is i7 is a model that follows these rules.

2) on SLI: Is SLI worth the money? lets take the gtx 260m. now lets say that you can add ANOTHER gtx 260m to make it SLI capable for an extra $300 dollars. Will the performance gains (on newer games and future games) be noticable? on a scenario: a game recommends a "270m" or higher (lets pretend this 270m is only slightly better than the 260m, no more than 10% better). i heard that on using SLI you can get up to 150% on the output level (so i guess it maxes out on 75% power for each card?). now would i still be able to play these games on the high/ultra settings assuming i make the settings necessary on every other component?

3) Hyperthreading. What is hyperthreading exactly? from what i har at least for i7 it allows each core to run multiple "commands" at the same time. but what exactly constitutes as a command? is running an AV scan considered only 1 "command"?

4) This in a notebook. How much longer do you think it will take to get both the i7 extreme mobile and have the ability to SLI with high end GTX cards? possibly the 300 series (which i believe is not out yet)?

i know the sager has the i7 in it but its not SLi-able, and i dont really like that oddly positioned touchpad.
Perferably the Asus brand use the extreme i7 AND cards that can SLI?

Thanks!!
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post #2 of 72
10/3/09 at 1:41am
1. i7 is a game changer for performance and you will see 10% gains clock for clock and higher if the program can support more than 3 threads at one time. I dont reccomend dropping cash for the highest i7 config since the gain is minimal bang for buck wise.

2. Basically SLI is taking the best of what available and trying to give you more. If you can gain in theory 100% by slapping a 2nd card then the money if worth it for people looking to get bleeding edge performance for the latest games.

3. You CPU in the core2 family performs 1 thread per core but every app may not utilize 100% of the thread which bleeds performance. In theory by forcing the CPU to handle 2 threads per core you can maximize the horsepower assuming the app will use it.

4.Give it till oct 22nd when everyone officially starts to roll out there new i7 based toys. Im confident AW will update the current m17x to handle i7x alongside SLI or xfire solutions.
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post #3 of 72
10/3/09 at 1:53am
Thread Starter 
thanks. im probably waiting till either december (unlikely) or summer (likely)

is amd making mobile quad cores that are on par with the new i7s any time soon? hopefully itll make intel drop their prices?

also you said that i7 has a 10% gain clock for clock does that mean that a 2.0 ghz i7 will equal a 2.2 ghz for a quad core?
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post #4 of 72
10/3/09 at 2:15am
Based on the current reviews, the 2 Ghz mobile i7 quad hangs with the 2.66 Ghz desktop i5 & i7 quad-core CPUs and beats desktop Core 2 quads in most applications. The 1.73 Ghz mobile i7 quad hangs with the mobile 2.53 Ghz Core 2 quad. In terms of real-world performance, that's between a 33% and 46% performance gain per clock, and more for applications that aren't quad-core optimized due to Turbo Boost. Simply put, that's a staggering performance gain.

AMD is not likely to come up with anything likely to contend with the mobile Core i7 processors until 2011 at the earliest. In other words, don't hold your breath for AMD to release anything even close to the performance of the new mobile i7 CPUs anytime soon.
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post #5 of 72
10/3/09 at 2:50am
Hi fading been a while! The i7 is so cool, I would really consider. The turbo is great. HTT actually slows some apps down like gaming I believe. That is the least important feature to me.
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post #6 of 72
10/3/09 at 3:29pm
Thread Starter 
hi thanks for that info..

how exactly does hyperthreading slow down a computer?

is turbo boost the thing that automatically shuts down a couple cores and overclocks the remaining ones?
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post #7 of 72
10/3/09 at 3:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fadingxero View Post
is turbo boost the thing that automatically shuts down a couple cores and overclocks the remaining ones?
yes, that's it
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post #8 of 72
10/3/09 at 3:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djembe View Post
yes, that's it
is there a way to force turbo boost on the i7s? or is it automatically only?

also: i heard that the best i7 model costs ~1k, when will the prices go down the best i7 mobile model?

also: what is triple channel for RAM?

thanks a lot guys
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post #9 of 72
10/3/09 at 4:11pm
Turbo Boost is automatic.

The price of the BEST Intel CPU model will likely always be over $1k. However, the slightly less powerful models are much less expensive and represent a much better value.

Triple channel RAM is only in place on desktops and servers. It allows the memory bandwidth to triple when there are 3 identical memory modules installed. Notebooks use dual channel RAM, which doubles the bandwidth in a similar way.
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post #10 of 72
10/3/09 at 4:12pm
HTT can help increase performance because. Applications can use the same core with one using the unused clocks that the 1st app did not use. The desktop i7 guys have discovered that in some instances it negatively impacts performance of a single app. Why I don't know it is not major but is real.



On Turbo no not like I think you ask it is automatic. I suppose you could force an app to use a certain core/cores with OS that would I guess insure turbo kicked in. But I can only think up make believe reasons why that would be beneficial, not real world.

Yes the i7 920XM $1054 in lots (1000?). When they release the next faster i7 920 will drop to $546, if they release 2 new faster i7's at the same time the 920 will drop to $364. But fading we all know if they release faster you will have your eyes on those. I do not know of what the future faster ones are or when. I only know about lesser i7's and i5's, begining of next year.

RAM channels are 64bit (wide) so one is with say 800Mhz RAM. 800 (Mhz)x64 (bits)/8 (Bytes)=6400. So a single channel at 800Mhz can in theory move 6400MB/s. Dual is two of these channels so in theory can move 12800MB/s. So Tri channel in theory can move 19200MB/s. Also remember it is not the RAM that is single, dual or tri but a MoBo/chipset feature.

Hope that helps.

Edit: Well looks like I just type slower.
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post #11 of 72
10/3/09 at 4:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpack View Post
HTT can help increase performance because. Applications can use the same core with one using the unused clocks that the 1st app did not use. The desktop i7 guys have discovered that in some instances it negatively impacts performance of a single app. Why I don't know it is not major but is real.



On Turbo no not like I think you ask it is automatic. I suppose you could force an app to use a certain core/cores with OS that would I guess insure turbo kicked in. But I can only think up make believe reasons why that would be beneficial, not real world.

Yes the i7 920XM $1054 in lots (1000?). When they release the next faster i7 920 will drop to $546, if they release 2 new faster i7's at the same time the 920 will drop to $364. But fading we all know if they release faster you will have your eyes on those. I do not know of what the future faster ones are or when. I only know about lesser i7's and i5's, begining of next year.

RAM channels are 64bit (wide) so one is with say 800Mhz RAM. 800 (Mhz)x64 (bits)/8 (Bytes)=6400. So a single channel at 800Mhz can in theory move 6400MB/s. Dual is two of these channels so in theory can move 12800MB/s. So Tri channel in theory can move 19200MB/s. Also remember it is not the RAM that is single, dual or tri but a MoBo/chipset feature.

Hope that helps.

Edit: Well looks like I just type slower.
haha your right i would keep my eyes open for the strongest cpus. however, i wont mind paying 1k for a cpu if its strong enough, im trying to get a laptop that'll last me longer than a year for super high end gaming
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post #12 of 72
10/3/09 at 4:48pm
Regarding processors, any of the mobile Core i7 CPUs will last you for, at a guess, at least 2-3 years of high end gaming. The type of component you'll have trouble with is graphics cards, not CPUs. If you've got the money and the desire to play all the new games at maximum settings as soon as they're released, I would seriously advise that you buy a desktop. Notebook graphics cards cannot generally be upgraded, and even the ones that can be upgraded have a limit on the availability of the upgrade cards.
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post #13 of 72
10/3/09 at 4:54pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djembe View Post
Regarding processors, any of the mobile Core i7 CPUs will last you for, at a guess, at least 2-3 years of high end gaming. The type of component you'll have trouble with is graphics cards, not CPUs. If you've got the money and the desire to play all the new games at maximum settings as soon as they're released, I would seriously advise that you buy a desktop. Notebook graphics cards cannot generally be upgraded, and even the ones that can be upgraded have a limit on the availability of the upgrade cards.
hah..yeah ive been told that, however, i think wont get a new desktop until i move out of my parent's house..
which means an i7 should be sufficent until college
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post #14 of 72
10/6/09 at 12:32am
Thread Starter 
hm ive been thinking.. is it actually "better" to get a desktop extreme i7 in a notebook? or would the graphics card be older and thusly not last "as long". or would the motherboard also be a modified desktop motherboard so then the graphics card can change?

how much would an i7 extreme desktop notebook cost?
which companies make it ( even if alienware makes it i wouldnt buy it)
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post #15 of 72
10/6/09 at 2:46am
Clevo D900F/Sager NP9280. It does offer some GPU upgrade potential but nothing like a desktop. Currently there is not a GPU upgrade available per se. It comes with the mobile GTX 280m. Yes that is a mobile graphics card not desktop.

No the graphics are not dated and the cost is around $2000.
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post #16 of 72
10/6/09 at 3:12am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpack View Post
Clevo D900F/Sager NP9280. It does offer some GPU upgrade potential but nothing like a desktop. Currently there is not a GPU upgrade available per se. It comes with the mobile GTX 280m. Yes that is a mobile graphics card not desktop.

No the graphics are not dated and the cost is around $2000.
not to get too technical but how did they fit a mobile gpu with a desktop cpu? is this some sort of custom motherboard?

i just messed around a little bit and created one with a 2x blue ray reader + 6gb 1333 mhz ram, 500 hard drive at 7200 rpm and the extreme 3.33ghz cpu.
it came out to be ~3500

now i also customized a sager to see the other price for the mobile extreme i7, 4gb ram 1333 mhz also i believe, 500 gb hard drive 7200rpm and the same blue ray thingy.
both with the same gpu. for about 2900

since one has a desktop cpu would it run incredibly hot? and the battery life would be horrid as well?

would that 600 dollar increase actually be worth it in the ideas of gaming at the best of the best. this of course being a desktop replacement since i dont want a desktop for another few years.
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post #17 of 72
10/6/09 at 3:21am
The desktop i7 would kill all battery life in the laptop. You'll probably get what all the np92xx laptops with desktop cpus got in battery life, around an hour. Their cooling design is very well built so heat should not concern you unless you hug the laptop when gaming lol.

The desktop cpu will be more powerful but gaming wise it won't make a difference if you choose the 920qm mobile cpu.
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post #18 of 72
10/6/09 at 3:31am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by motok View Post
The desktop i7 would kill all battery life in the laptop. You'll probably get what all the np92xx laptops with desktop cpus got in battery life, around an hour. Their cooling design is very well built so heat should not concern you unless you hug the laptop when gaming lol.

The desktop cpu will be more powerful but gaming wise it won't make a difference if you choose the 920qm mobile cpu.
how would the desktop cpu not make a difference? are the new i7s better technology than the old desktop i7s? and i dont mind having a 1hr battery life.. my current only pulls off like 1.5hrs
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post #19 of 72
10/6/09 at 3:40am
Most games are not very CPU dependent so as long as the CPU has a certain level of performance it is all about GPU. There are a few games that are exceptions to this one being GTA4 and others at insanely high resolutions above what notebooks screens come with.
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post #20 of 72
10/6/09 at 3:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpack View Post
Most games are not very CPU dependent so as long as the CPU has a certain level of performance it is all about GPU. There are a few games that are exceptions to this one being GTA4 and others at insanely high resolutions above what notebooks screens come with.
Very true. When I swapped the 2.0ghz t series dual core with an x9100 in my asus it made little difference in many games and it is oc'd quite a bit. GTA makes a HUGE difference when the cpu is better and the only other game I have come to see a fairly good improvement is NFS shift. 3.0ghz-3.45 adds a good 5fps steadily.

The destop I7 is a more powerful cpu than the mobile ones but the extra heat is not worth it especially if you dip in for the 920qm.

BTW odd thing with GTA4, I got a good avg fps bump when I went from playing on my 1366x768 native laptop reso to playing at 1920x1080 on my 72 inch Sony Bravia screen. Very odd but I'm not complaining.
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