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8790's HDTV support is very poor

post #1 of 23
6/1/04 at 2:44am
Thread Starter 
I just tried to hook up my 8790 to my 65" Sony HDTV (using Sager's supplied dongle). It didn't work very good.

First, the picture didn't look much better than an s-video connection.

Second, it had horrendous overscan (had to pan a bunch on the HD to get to the sides of the screens).

Third, no matter what displays I selected/enabled, it seemed to have trouble knowing which was which. (The "identify display" dialog in display settings always identified both the laptop screen & the TV screen as number 1).

There seemed to be no way to differentiate between monitors-- i.e. to keep the 1440 res on the laptop screen, and use something different on the HD screen. Messing with one always seemed to mess with another.

Fourth, apparently to get anything remotely satisfying, you have to use a program called powerstrip. I tried it, and it's a complete nightmare. It requires a high knowledge level, and it is capable of messing you up badly (for a while my laptop screen stayed black and only the HD screen was on, required several reboots & prayer to get it back on).

I suggest don't mess with this feature. The mobility 9700 support for HDTV sucks.

If anybody has better luck with the ATI dongle (not Sager's dongle), let me know. It may work better, it goes straight out of the DVI port rather than the s-video port.
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post #2 of 23
6/1/04 at 2:45am
Thread Starter 
I forgot to mention. I tried every HD resolution setting available in ATI's control panel. Nothing made much of a difference.
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post #3 of 23
6/1/04 at 12:24pm
What resolution are you using for the Sony ? I have a Sony 34xbr910 and have no issues. I use both the DVI and the break out cable.(RGB). I didn't like it for web surfing but dvd playback was great.

Lance
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post #4 of 23
6/1/04 at 6:24pm
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0&pagenumber=1

this is the thread to read how to make this work with powerstrip..... (i use this for my transcoder out from my radeon 9600pro to my mitsu hdtv, waiting on my 8790 to be delivered atm

you should also use ZOOM player (do a google search) it is awesome in allowing you to change screen sizes horizontally or vertically stretch to get things perfect.....
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post #5 of 23
6/2/04 at 1:06am
Thread Starter 
jaquestati, I would be very interested to see if you get your 8790 to work with your HDTV.

I tried many of the settings from AVS forum, as well as some from tigerdave.com.

I found the following problem:

The settings always seem to affect my laptop LCD negatively, so that it blacks completely out. I only want to create timings for the HDTV out, NOT the laptop screen, but I cannot figure out how to do this.

And yet, none of the timings seem to create decent appearance on the HDTV set.

The ATI control panel should supply all the required settings, but none of them work. What is the purpose of them including this "support" if it does not work on a major-brand, major-market HD RPTV?

If I could only find exact details on what my Sony will accept, it would be easier, but it's like shooting in the dark. I wish I could figure out exactly what my HD set-top box is delivering to it, my HD cable is great.
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post #6 of 23
6/2/04 at 1:57am
What exactly is the "sager supplied dongle"? I'm still waiting for my 8790, so I don't know.

I would assume the DVI out would be the best way to go. If your HDTV doesn't have an DVI in, then I think there is a DVI/VGA -> Component(progressive scan) junction box. (See this article)

I didn't know that Sager supplied a cable at all. But unless you are going DVI to DVI... I can see why you'd be having issues.
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post #7 of 23
6/2/04 at 6:37am
squeezebox-

and no i dont have my laptop yet june 12th is ship date tho hopefully sooner

but researching this i did see some posts saying they could not get the full 1080i to work unless they set the laptop display to the same res..... i have no idea if thats true or not..... will have to wait and see.....
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post #8 of 23
6/2/04 at 11:51am
Thread Starter 
freestyle,

Sager supplies an s-video to component dongle. It sounds completely bizarre, but apparently it works for some folks. The video card must be able to sense it somehow, and output the correct signals thru the s-video out.

Personally I suspect it is a problematic solution-- for instance, when I use it, the ATI control panel >> Displays seems to want to auto-enable both TV OUT and YbPbr OUT (or whatever those letters are, just guessing from memory). So somehow I think it is confused by the s-video dongle.

My HDTV does have a DVI-in. I have been reluctant to try it based on some people reporting Sony RP HDTVs are very finicky about DVI sources and dont' like PC sources. However I will probably try it next, maybe theyr'e wrong and this will work better than anything.

If not I will probably buy the ATI DVI to component dongle, this seems a more likely solution than the s-video dongle-- at least it seems unlikely to "confuse" the ATI auto-exteranl monitor sensor.
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post #9 of 23
6/2/04 at 12:14pm
Oh, ok... That (the S-Video) is never going to give a good signal anwhere near HDTV quality, and definitely not a progressive signal.

One way you can get a "real" component conversion would be from an S-Video AND a Composite (RCA) signal combination. Still not progressive, but combining those two connections into the 3 YRB cables is about as good an up-convert as you can get (Avid does this on their "Mojo" junction box).

I definitely would try the DVI -> DVI option if you want your HDTV to look like a computer screen. You should check the article I linked to above, because you are correct, there are always some ways to damage your set by screwing with resolution inputs.
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post #10 of 23
6/2/04 at 3:36pm

I agree HD support sucks!

The included dongle IS true component out, not S video. The quality is much better than S video. However it is not as good as I want.

#1. THe resolution output does not match what is actually displayed on screen for some reason!! I own the SOny HS-20 HD projector which has a native resolution of 1386x788. Yet when I choose 1280x720 it overscans badly even though that is LOWER than my 1386x788 native resolution. SO I tried the pixel to pixel setting on the HS-20 (or full through) and now it is WAY smaller than 1280x720.

In the 8790 display panel there is the "optomized" setting or whatever it is called... I have forgotten right now, and in that case it sets 1152xsomething or other, cannot remember (sorry do not have my 8790 here right now). When it sets itself to THAT resolution is gets closer to the size of the screen, but still a bit small. Go figure! When I use powerstrip and set it to 1386x788 it has more overscan than 1280x70 of course, and still does not even come close to filling the screen in full through mode! The problem is unless I can match the native resolution of my projector, the image quality is very poor (same as any resolution other than native on our laptop screens). My problem is that the resolution of the projector and laptop do not jive!!!!! 1280x720 on the computer is NOT what is being sent to the projector!

I am going to get a DVI cable, and I hope that solves my problems. I should be able to set 1386x788 by powerstrip and in full through mode (1 to 1 with no scaling) it should exactly fit the screen and be the native resolution of my projector. Anyone know why this is not happening?


Regards,
Sean



Quote:
Originally Posted by freestyle
Oh, ok... That (the S-Video) is never going to give a good signal anwhere near HDTV quality, and definitely not a progressive signal.

One way you can get a "real" component conversion would be from an S-Video AND a Composite (RCA) signal combination. Still not progressive, but combining those two connections into the 3 YRB cables is about as good an up-convert as you can get (Avid does this on their "Mojo" junction box).

I definitely would try the DVI -> DVI option if you want your HDTV to look like a computer screen. You should check the article I linked to above, because you are correct, there are always some ways to damage your set by screwing with resolution inputs.
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post #11 of 23
6/2/04 at 3:39pm
Squeezebox,

S-Video is not HD. The system is standard 720x486 NTSC resolution and does not do progressive scan. The only difference between S-Video and Composite is that S-Video splits luminance and crominance. If you want higher resolution or progressive you will need to find another way to get an RGB signal out of the computer to component inputs on your TV. Perhaps DVI, but I'm not familiar with what that can supply.

-Photonic
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post #12 of 23
6/2/04 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Photonic
Squeezebox,

S-Video is not HD. The system is standard 720x486 NTSC resolution and does not do progressive scan. The only difference between S-Video and Composite is that S-Video splits luminance and crominance. If you want higher resolution or progressive you will need to find another way to get an RGB signal out of the computer to component inputs on your TV. Perhaps DVI, but I'm not familiar with what that can supply.

-Photonic
Photonic,

I think that you missed the point that the adapter is NOT S-Video if the HD-Cable is used - it is DVD-YRGB (or whatever). If the S-Video cable is used, then you get S-Video. This "plugin" like many of the others on the 8790 serve multiple purposes.
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post #13 of 23
6/2/04 at 3:52pm
My bad. I could sware that S-Video ports only have 4 wires though. That would make them two wires short of being able to supply true RGB. Not to mention the 8 wires required for YRGB.
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post #14 of 23
6/2/04 at 4:10pm
Trust me, it is true component RGB output from the S-video port. It is a smart port that senses if you put a S video cable or the Sager supplied dongle and switches between RGB and S Video... works great except it is really hard to get the right resolution output to match your HDTV resolution.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Photonic
My bad. I could sware that S-Video ports only have 4 wires though. That would make them two wires short of being able to supply true RGB. Not to mention the 8 wires required for YRGB.
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post #15 of 23
6/2/04 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Photonic
My bad. I could sware that S-Video ports only have 4 wires though. That would make them two wires short of being able to supply true RGB. Not to mention the 8 wires required for YRGB.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Even if you do get the signal out of an S-Video port, I can't see it being the same quality as a component -> component connection (let alone a progressive component signal).

This is what Avid uses, and you'll still find arguments about the "trueness" of the component signal.

Component Cable (again, not progressive scan)
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post #16 of 23
6/2/04 at 4:36pm
That cable from Avid looks similar to the Sager one.... but it is progressive.... my projector reports the signal it is getting as being progressive... 720p to be precise.


Regards,
Sean



Quote:
Originally Posted by freestyle
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Even if you do get the signal out of an S-Video port, I can't see it being the same quality as a component -> component connection (let alone a progressive component signal).

This is what Avid uses, and you'll still find arguments about the "trueness" of the component signal.

Component Cable (again, not progressive scan)
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post #17 of 23
6/2/04 at 4:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shank2001
.... but it is progressive.... my projector reports the signal it is getting as being progressive... 720p to be precise.
Wow... I don't get how that would be. But I'll trust you on that.

I'm gonna have to do some more reading... This is news to me.
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post #18 of 23
6/2/04 at 4:48pm
FreeStyle;

Close; but no Cigar. Avid sez as Avid does. Sager sez as Sager does. Avid and Sager don't say the same thing; nor are the cable connection requirements the same.

The port is not "JUST" an S-Video port. The cable is a S-Video to YPrPb cable and when the HDTV is enabled from the ATI Display Control panel (and connected to the HDTV), the output to this "port" is changed. I don't believe that it is ProScan; but it doesn't have to be ProScan to be HDTV - although that would be nicer.
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post #19 of 23
6/2/04 at 5:50pm
Looking at Freestyle's cable I can see how they get RGB out of the S-Vid + Composite. 4 wires from S-Vid + 2 Wires from the composite makes the 6 that you need for the RGB signal. I don't doubt that the S-Video connector can be used for various functions. I'm just wondering how you get the required 6 wires out of a connector that only has 4 available. As a 10 year veteran of Film and Video production I'm intrigued. From reading what Shank says does the Sager cable use both S-Vid and Composite outputs? Does anyone have any links to information regarding how they accomplish this?

-Photonic
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post #20 of 23
6/2/04 at 8:14pm
Photonic... I'm fairly sure that the 8790 does not have a RCA (composite) video out. So the Sager provided dongle must be combining the signal in some way, OR as G-Omaha suggests, maybe the S-Video port is more than just an S-Video output. S-Video+ so to speak?

I'm just puzzled on the progressive scan thing. All that said, I would assume that you would get the best image by determining your Max resolution on your HDTV and optimal refresh rate. Setting that on your computer, and goind DVI to DVI.

I should have my 8790 by in the next week or so... that'll be something I try... for sure.
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