gsferrari's Sager **5670** review

Hello people...I am here in Sarasota in the offices of PC Torque havin a great time with Troy and Adam

Well I am here for a purpose which is to run a comparison between the 5660 and 5670 in terms of performance and construction. While I sit here composing this review, Adam is on his computer (desktop - Nvidia Ach!) playing Tribes 2 and Troy is running around trying to get the network up and running Because we don’t have just 2 laptops here, we have four!!! Apparently they went and picked up a Sony Vaio for a head to head AND they dug up an 8887 for the test.



The laptops featuring in this review are so different from each other which makes this review all the more interesting to read. So far we have not been successful in getting out paws on a Centrino based laptop but we are still trying and maybe we can have one up for review soon.

Right now though we have the following laptops here on the desk :-

1] 8887
2] Sony Vaio : PCG-GRV680



3] 5660 (Mine)

and last and the latest

4] a spanking new 5670 (demo model)




Laptop Configurations :-

1] Sager 8887 :-

Intel Pentium 4 CPU 3.06Ghz (2 CPU’s) (Hyperthreading)
1024 MB RAM
DirectX 8.1
Mobility Radeon 9000 128MB DDR RAM
6218 drivers (6.13.10.6218)
Microsoft Windows XP-Professional SP1

2] Sony Vaio :-

Intel Pentium 4 CPU 2.60 Ghz
512 MB RAM
Direct X 8.1
Mobility Radeon 9000 64 MB DDR RAM
6.13.10.6236 Drivers (??)
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition

3] Sager 5660 :-

Intel Pentium 4 CPU 2.8 Ghz
1024 MB RAM
DirextX 9.0a
Mobility Radeon 9000 64 MB DDR RAM
Catalyst 3.2 Drivers (6.14.0001.6307)
Microsoft Windows XP PRO with SP1

4] Sager 5670 system summary :-

Processor
Model : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.06GHz
Speed : 3.07GHz
Performance Rating : PR4078 (estimated)
SMT Support : 2 Unit(s)
Type : Standard
L2 On-board Cache : 512kB ECC Synchronous ATC

Mainboard
Bus(es) : ISA AGP PCI IMB CardBus USB FireWire/1394 i2c/SMBus
MP Support : 1 CPU(s)
System BIOS : AT/AT COMPATIBLE
Chipset : Clevo/Kapok Computer 82845E Brookdale Host-Hub Interface Bridge (E0-step)
Front Side Bus Speed : 4x 133MHz (532MHz data rate)
Total Memory : 511MB DDR-SDRAM
Memory Bus Speed : 2x 133MHz (266MHz data rate)

Video System
Adapter : MOBILITY RADEON 9000

Physical Storage Devices
Removable Drive : Floppy disk drive
Hard Disk : TOSHIBA MK6022GAX
CD-ROM/DVD : TOSHIBA DVD-ROM SD-R2312

Logical Storage Devices
1.44MB 3.5" (A: ) : N/A
Hard Disk (C: ) : 20.0GB (18.9GB, 94% Free) (NTFS)
CD-ROM/DVD (D: ) : N/A
Games (E: ) : 35.9GB (33.1GB, 92% Free) (NTFS)

Peripherals
Serial/Parallel Port(s) : 1 COM / 1 LPT
USB Controller/Hub : VIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Companion Controller
USB Controller/Hub : VIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Companion Controller
USB Controller/Hub : VIA USB Enhanced Host Controller
USB Controller/Hub : USB Root Hub
USB Controller/Hub : USB Root Hub
USB Controller/Hub : USB Root Hub
FireWire/1394 Controller/Hub : Texas Instruments OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller
PCMCIA/CardBus Controller : Generic CardBus Controller
Keyboard : Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural PS/2 Keyboard
Mouse : PS/2 Compatible Mouse

MultiMedia Device(s)
Device : Intel(r) 82801CA/CAM AC'97 Audio Controller

Operating System(s)
Windows System : Microsoft Windows XP Professional Version 5.01.2600 Service Pack 1

Network Adapter(s)
Network Drivers Enabled : Yes
Adapter : Realtek RTL8139 Family PCI Fast Ethernet NIC

Background :-

Thurday, April 10th 2003 began with a bang!! Adam had invited me over the previous day to check out the 5670 and do a mini review and I had decided to go. 2 hrs by bus from Tampa…one 5660 in hand with the Dual battery set-up = NO SWEAT!! I took a few of my favorite DVD’s and got on the bus. There was enough space for the 5660 and I watched a movie all the way through.

PC Torque is now located in Sarasota, Florida and the address is as follows :-

4211 South Shade Avenue
Sarasota, FL 34231
Ph : 1-800-346-6986

I got here and got to work on the laptops. I have them all nicely lined up on the table and I am doing my best to get all of them as close to each other in terms of software, settings, drivers etc. I am SOOO excited. I get excited easily and seeing $10,000 worth of hardware and over $1000 in software for me to fool around with was a little too much for my small brain to handle. However I got to work on this review...Heart rpm > 3.06Ghz lol

Here goes...

Setting up the 5660, 5670, 8887 and the Sony Vaio :-

The settings used for the sagers was simple. The 5670 and 8887 used DirectX 8.1 and the 6218 drivers (the 5660 did not participate because I had already installed DX9.0a) and the Sony Vaio had its own proprietary drivers. The two sagers were neck and neck in the 3D Mark 2001 SE benchmark while the Sony Vaio seemed to have an edge. Initially I thought the drivers were simply better written (or hacked) but this seemed like a lame excuse. I decided to run Powerstrip and scan for the clock settings and I was not surprised with what I found. The sony was running with a DDR of 220 while the 8887 was at 180, 5660 at 159 and 5670 at 190. It is debatable whether the sagers can also be clocked that high but I doubt we will test this area for this review.

The 3D Mark 2003 test with DirectX 9.0a ran without a hitch on the 5660 and the 5670 but brought the 8887 and the Vaio to their knees. Both these laptops failed to complete the test even with the latest drivers from the sager website and the default drivers installed on the 8887 and the Vaio respectively. Both the laptops failed at Different points in the test. The Vaio failed to make it past the Trolls Lair (3rd test) and the 8887 failed to make it past the stage when the 4th test tries to load but cannot load because it is not supported by the Radeon 9000.

Vaio error :
-------------


8887 error :
-------------


Interestingly I updated the drivers on both the systems (using the ATI drivers from the www.s-seven.net website) and they both ran the tests as you can see in the scoresheets below. I have not tried loading the Catalyst 3.2 drivers from the ATI website because these are the same drivers on which the modded ones from www.s-seven.net are based.

To bring things to an even playing field I pulled the clock on the Sony Vaio down to 190 (same as the 5670 while the 8887 and the 5660 were running at 180) using the powerstrip utility.

BENCHMARKS !!!


3D Mark 2001 SE Benchmark performance review :-:-



8887:- (clk = 180)
-----------------------


with Vertical Sync On :



with vertical Sync Off :



Sony Vaio :- (clk = 220)
-----------------------------

with Vertical Sync On :



5670 :-
---------

with Vertical Sync On :



with Vertical Sync Off :



3D Mark 2003 benchmark performance reviews :-



8887 :- (clk = 180) with the M9 drivers from s-seven.net :
------------------------------------------------------------------------






Sony Vaio :-(clk pulled down to 190) : with s-seven.net drivers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------






5660 :- (clk = 159) : with M9 drivers from s-seven.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------






5670 :- (clk = 190) : with M9 drivers from s-seven.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------





5670 :- with slider at performance setting
----------------------------------------------------







SISoft Sandra performance reviews :-



8887 :-
----------











Sony Vaio :-
--------------











5660 :-
-------











5670 :-
=====











PCMark 2002 performance benchmark for the 5670 only:
============================================




I ran the test only for the 5670 which is the star of the show here because I had no time to run it on the other laptops. I will run it on the 8887 and 5660 a little later and post it as an addition to this review....

Continued...

The 5670 first impressions :-


The 5670 is the same as the 5660 in terms of external appearance but the similarity ends there. The construction is slightly different on the underside and below you will find pictures showing the difference between the two laptops.

The 5670 has bigger fans than the 5660 and my first concern was that it would be a lot noisier – I was happy to find that this was not the case. The 5670 was actually a lot quieter than the old 5660. We will do a tear up on the 5670 to see if the fans are the same and if any other cooling mechanism has been employed that will take it further away from the 5660. The 5670 actually runs a lot cooler and quieter than the 5660 which makes me wonder if some super cooling system has been incorporated in this new laptop. We will soon find out once the laptops are in pieces on the table side by side. We are going to put the 5670 and the 5660 side by side and check out their innards - looks like my 5660 will not be spared after all lol

Before we get to the tear-up review I would like to add that I loaded up Battle Field 1942 and Splinter Cell (screenshots coming soon) just to see how it played. I was blown away by how much better the 5670 performs compared to my 5660. In SC I would struggle at 1024x768 with the 5660, the 5670?? 1280x1024 and playing like a charm - the 1600x1200 option was strangely missing from the graphics options which leads me to believe that I should have patched the game first before playing. I will patch the game and then see if I can run it at native res because the hardware certainly seem capable of the strain. I also want to touch upon the fact that I was making screenshots all through and the game never messed up when I hit Alt+Tab at least a dozen times.

Battlefield 1942...was a BLAST!!! with everything even remotely related to graphics jacked up and the display settings at default the game ran beautifully at 1024x768. It runs well at 1600x768 too but I had issues in multiplayer mode so I just decided that it was not worth it to run at native.

It looks like the 128MB Video Memory is making a BIG difference. For some reason, with all settings kept same the textures on the 5670 looked much better than the textures on the 5660. The graphics just look a lot better and the shadows look a lot more detailed in both games. I was running digichat and MS Paint while playing both games and they did not drop a single frame. The difference in performance has to be seen to be believed and I was lucky to have the older 5660 and the new 5670 up for a head to head. The 5660 played better than the 8887 but the 5670 blew the 5660 away - no questions asked.


The difference between the 5660 and the 5670 cooling systems :-


Adam and I opened up the 5670 demo model and (ach!) my 5660 to check out the differences in the cooling system and we were very happy to see an entirely new beefed up cooling system in the 5670. The 5670 has larger fans (about 6mm larger dia) than the 5660 and has a different part number. They also have a new enclosure for the fans which seems to be more effiicient at sucking in air and blowing it over the heatsink and out through the vents...


5660 on the left and 5670 on the right. Notice the difference in the fan intake...


5670 0n the left 5660 on the right. Notice the difference in the size of the fans...



5670 0n the left 5660 on the right. Notice the difference in the heatsink design...



A closer view of the heatsinks...







The 5670's heatsink is also different from the 5660's. It has a honeycomb like structure and seems to be made of a different gauge metal sheet. Unlike the 5660 where the heatsink vanes are run end to end (See pictures) and the new stuff seems to be doing the job as far as I am concerned. The 5670 ran a lot cooler than the 5660 and this I can state without doubt because I had both of them up and running side by side. The fans on the 5670 are quieter (physics proves that a larger fan running at a lower rpm is more effective and less noisy) and they dont come on as often as those on the 5660.

All in all I am impressed with the 5670's cooling although I feel that the cooling they had for the 5660 may have just been adequate. But no one makes changes when they are not required and all I can say is that the Alienware customers who were promised HT on the Area 51m are not going to be happy to see this difference between the two models

5670 CPU Information (Sandra) :-

Processor
Model : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.06GHz
Co-Processor (FPU) : Built-in
Speed : 3.07GHz
Performance Rating : PR4076 (estimated)
SMT Support : 2 Unit(s)
Type : Standard
Package : FC µPGA478
Rated Speed/FSB : 3060MHz / 4x 133MHz
Multiplier : 23x
Generation : 7 (7x86)
Name : P4N (Northwood) Pentium 4 1.6-3.4G 1.5-1.6V
Revision/Stepping : 2 / 7 (9)
Stepping Mask : C1
Core Voltage Rating : 1.550V

Processor Cache(s)
Internal Data Cache : 8kB Synchronous Write-Thru (4-way sectored, 64 byte line size)
Internal Trace Cache : 12kµops Synchronous Write-Thru (8-way, 64 byte line size)
L2 On-board Cache : 512kB ECC Synchronous ATC (8-way sectored, 64 byte line size)
L2 Cache Multiplier : 1/1x (3065MHz)

Host Interface(s)
Front Side Bus Speed : 4x 133MHz (532MHz data rate)



5670 Motherboard Information :-

Chipset
Model : Clevo/Kapok Computer 82845E Brookdale Host-Hub Interface Bridge (E0-step)
Bus(es) : ISA AGP PCI IMB CardBus USB FireWire/1394 i2c/SMBus
Front Side Bus Speed : 4x 133MHz (532MHz data rate)
Maximum FSB Speed / Max Memory Speed : 4x 133MHz / 2x 133MHz
IO Queue Depth : 12 request(s)

Chipset Hub Interface
Type : Hub-Interface
Version : 1.50
Number of Ports : 1
Width : 8-bit
Full Duplex : Yes
Multiplier : 1x

APIC 1
Version : 2.00
Multiplier : 1/2x
Maximum Interrupts : 24
IRQ Handler Engaged : Yes
Enhanced Support : No

Logical/Chipset Memory Banks
Bank 0 : 256MB DDR-SDRAM 8-1-1-1R 6-1-1-1W 2.5-3-3CL
Bank 1 : 256MB DDR-SDRAM 8-1-1-1R 6-1-1-1W 2.5-3-3CL
Speed : 2x 133MHz (266MHz data rate)
Multiplier : 1/1x
Refresh Rate : 7.80µs
Power Save Mode : Yes
Fixed Hole Present : No

AGP Bus(es)
Version : 2.00
Current Data Transfer Rate : 4x
Side Band Enabled : Yes
Fast-Writes Enabled : Yes
Aperture Size : 64MB

PCI Bus(es)
Version : 2.20
Number of Bridges : 2
PCI Bus 0 : PCI (1x PCIClk)
PCI Bus 2 : PCI (1x PCIClk)

LPC Hub Controller 1
Model : Intel Corporation 82801CAM (ICH3-M) LPC Interface
ACPI Power Management Enabled : Yes
Random Number Generator Enabled : Yes

USB Controller 1
Model : VIA Technologies Inc VT6202 USB Controller
Version : 1.10
UHCI Interface : Yes
Channels : 2
Speed : 48MHz
Legacy Emulation Enabled : No

USB Controller 2
Model : VIA Technologies Inc VT6202 USB Controller
Version : 1.10
UHCI Interface : Yes
Channels : 2
Speed : 48MHz
Legacy Emulation Enabled : No

USB Controller 3
Model : VIA Technologies Inc VT6202 USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller
Version : 2.00
Specification : 0.95
EHCI Interface : Yes
Channels : 4
Legacy Emulation Enabled : No

FireWire/1394 Controller 1
Model : Texas Instruments (TI) TSB43AB21 1394a-2000 OHCI PHY/link-layer Controller
Version : 1.10
OHCI Interface : Yes
Enhanced Support : Yes
Channels : 64
Speed : 400MHz

CardBus/PCMCIA Controller 1
Model : ENE Technology Inc CB1410 CardBus Controller

System SMBus Controller 1
Model : Intel 801xx SMBus
Version : 0.02
Speed : 16kHz



The 5670 Screen :-

I did not upgrade the screen on the 5660 because I was concerned about the different reports coming in about the blotches and stuff but just looking at this beautiful screen on the 5670 makes me feel like an absolute idiot. The screen when placed side by side with the 5660 screen ROCKS!! I mean - I didnt want to look at my 5660 again Even the 8887 screen has better viewing angles than the 5660 screen and I will soon have to edit some of the posts I made on this topic just by looking at the pictures adam posted. There is no doubt that the old UXGA is on its way out. The 8887 has a nice screen but there is visible ghosting. No such thing in the 5670.

The rest of the 5670 :-

Nothing much between the 5660 and the 5670 so everything else stays just about the same. There is the internal wireless in the 5670 but I didnt have an access point here to check it out. There are no other visible revisions to the model over the previous version except for the cooling system and they both weigh just about the same. The color is not PINK as we tried to project but the Driver CD that comes with the laptop is a lousy pink color - anyone want to try their hand at painting a CD?? hee hee

Those with the dual battery set up will have to run the battery tests because we just didnt have the time. I dont expect there to be any major difference in the battery lives of the 5660 and the 5670 but you never know - those who have the 5670's please tune in with your experiences.


Conclusion :-

Although I did not try to game on the Sony Vaio let me tell you that this is not a bad computer either. It looks like it has a desktop 2.6Ghz CPU (doesnt say otherwise anywhere) and only one fan. I had it on my lap all the time and it was a pleasure to use a laptop where it's meant to be used. But before you head out to the store to check out the sony let me tell you that the materials used are HORRIBLE. They have the cheapest plastic you can imagine all over the laptop and the keyboard feels like its made out of scrabble blocks. The Sony has unsightly flaps all around that just detracts from its potential. The screen is beautiful though. Even though it is only SXGA the screen has amazing viewing angles - comparable to the 5660. But nothing can quite compete with the viewing angles on the 5670.

The 5670 will be great for presentations where you have people sitting around a table trying to peer at your screen. You will not feel the need for an external CRT or LCD because this screen does not have the glazed over look, is sharp, black where its supposed to be black, and has awesome viewing angles without glare.

I am very impressed with the 5670 just for the way it blasts while playing Splinter Cell and Battle Field 1942. Though there is very little difference between the 3 sagers in this review, there is enough to crown the 5670 with the best performance of the lot. The 5660 and 8887 are a little harder to separate because the 8887 has the better cpu but the screen with the ghosting effects is a bit of a downer for gaming - at least in comparison with the screens on the 5660 and the 5670. But the 8887 clearly out muscles the 5660 in the benchmarks and it has a gorgeous screen with awesome viewing angles.

The 5670 just OWNS!!

Advice to owners :-

Those of you who have the 5670 please note. Keep everything default for at least one month while you debug your laptop. Make sure you dont fool around too much with the settings. Use the default drivers that came on the CD and FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS!!!
The BIOS comes HT enabled and you will not have to any funky stuff.

Once you get your OS (please use only Win 2K or Win XP Home/Pro) installed and drivers etc. check up your HT status (just hit cntrl alt del and click the performance tab. Under CPU usage you should see two boxes under the CPU Usage History section like in the picture below :-





I envy you lucky 5670 owners...You get to own these magnificent laptops but you wanna know my state of affairs at the end of this review...

take a look...

NOTE :

Using the hacked drivers from www.s-seven.net caused issues in Battle Field 1942. The transparent ground was an annoying effect of this driver.

I would not recommend this driver if you play BF1942 on a day to day basis. Use the default drivers and check for these little artifacts and if you see them then try another video driver but always remember :

Completely uninstall the existing driver and restart before you install a new driver. If you have a registry cleaning tool and the necessary experience - ONLY then try to clean your registry after uninstalling the old driver and before installing the new one

Screenshots of Splinter Cell, Battle Field 1942 and a few other games are coming soon...

Before you jump to conclusions...

Yeah I got the 5660 put back together and as a little bonus for seeing my baby split up Adam used some Arctic Silver thermal paste on my CPU and Heatsink...it may not have too much of an effect but I am just glad its there lol


Check out the clock settings. The 5660's GPU DDR was set at 159 which is waaay below the 190 of the 5670 and the 180 of the 8887. I usually test the systems by running them up close on the clock settings but this time I decided to see how they will perform out of the box. The 5660 was shipped underclocked to loads of buyers for some reason and there HAS to be a reason (maybe marketing - to make the 8887 look good). However I will post the scores the 5660 makes with the rated clock setting of 180. Then you will see that they are not too far apart and maybe the 5660 has an edge over the 8887.

But believe me - I ran a dedicated server on the 8887 AND played a game of BF1942 on the same server with a couple of other dudes and it was rock solid FPS all the way. No lags NOTHING...

the 5670 is the star though...Splinter cell looks great and the 5670 has the best screen among the laptops I tested...


Screenshots coming up soon...

5660 = 159 / 5670 = 190

the 5660 has the clk of 159 and the 5670 has the clk of 190. the 8887 was standard at 180 and the Sony was originally at 220 and I pulled it to 190 to get an appraisal of its hardware on equal terms...

I dunno how they managed to clock it that high - have to game on it to see if there is any artefacting but there is no time - I leave for tampa tomorrow...

The sagers were maintained in their "Out of the Box" condition for the benchmarks. Thats why I didnt pull up the clk on the 5660 to 180 like I usually do for my personal benchmarks.

I guess thats it from here...

I'll be leaving behind these beautiful machines in a few hours and i feel terrible...

The 5670 looks just like the 5660 so I might con Adam and swap my laptop for the demo 5670

Anyway...here's hoping I get my hands on an 8887 for a complete test on some major applications like :-

3D Studio Max
Visual Studio .Net
Maya and Lightwave
VHDL Synthesis
Cadence (IC software)

etc...

I really neglected the BEAST and feel sorry for it because it really is an awesome computer. Lemme see...

If anyone feels like adding to this review please do so and lets keep the information together. Benchmarks, Performance, Your first impressions, your recommendations wrt drivers, set up, tuning etc.

All 5670 owners please contribute because I cannot test this lovely machine anymore...

Cheers!!

Drivers / XP Home

http://www.tech-report.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3850

Windows XP home does support hyperthreading. It does not support SMP = symmetrical Multiple Processing but it does support HT.

It will only see it as one CPU but it will support HT. You cannot use a dual CPU set up with XP Home because of its lack of smp support but as far as HT is concerned you should be fine...

I wouldnt recommend XP Home to everyone but there are some who cannot afford to get the XP-Pro...

Be right back with some info on this issue...

My bad...

Being the first time I was doing such a review I honestly didnt think of a whole lot of stuff before I plunged in. The idea was to keep things out of the box and thats basically how you see it.

I DID run the Sony on one of the benchmarks without pulling the clock down and you can see that it has the legs on the other laptops. I think the sony is a great laptop too and maybe Adam will do a few games on it to see if the laptop plays just as well.

The Sony was new and I dont think they would allow me to open it up and do a lot of fooling around with the RAM and stuff...

Next time I will do it a little more thoroughly - but I honestly feel I didnt do too badly this time Its up to your personal interpretation of the data...

Anyway the Sony was just a side dish in the meal - the real focus was on the 5670 and its cooling system which I think I NAILED

I am waiting to hear from the 5670 owners and I hope they can add some good stuff to this thread...

Accurate...

Their setup is both simple and effective. They have two systems to each employee - one for work and one for play...

They really dont get too much time to play but when they do they are REALLY GOOD. Their names are LF (Troy) and RF (Adam) for Right Foot and Left Foot because they compliment each other so well...superb communication between them and it translates to higher scores in the world of Tribes 2. They have soo many invitations to join various teams...

Their games are often interrupted by phone calls and orders although I havent seen them complain. Its usually a very quick and short "Sh*t!!" followed up by a "Hello...PC Torque...This is Adam/Troy"

I think they have achieved what we all dream of doing...working and playing together. It is important they dont lose touch with the game world because that is what most people put their sagers to use. I can think of so many other resellers who are great and take care of their customers just as well as PC Torque - but they are sooo out of touch with games and sound, video etc that it just makes them a little less interested in what we are chiefly interested in. I think it is important to be contemporary when it comes to these laptops and Adam and Troy are just that.

I have to thank them for the awesome time I had at the offices of PC Torque and I hope to spend more time with them in the future as well...

I hope Troy will consider donating his busted Klipsch Speakers to me because I heard his good pair and they throw the Logitech Z680's straight out of the window...The subwoofer is awesome...Logitech's sub is just not THAT good...and the midrange is missing in the Logitechs...

I'm back home now but I carry so many super memories from my 4 days at PC Torque...

I hope to rig up a desktop like theirs. Adam has the speaker posts for the surround speakers that start near the monitor and take the speakers behind him without the mess of wires on the floor or posts to stand the speakers up at ear level...