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Decided against the 8887  

post #1 of 31
4/17/03 at 6:27am
Thread Starter 
After givng the 8887 a through workout at the dealer, I decided not to bother. The display model, which has been in his shop about 3 weeks, had visible scratches on the silvered areas which indicate that the paint is suspiciously thin (how would it look after 6 months of hard use oon the road?) and the plastic on the lid is way too flexible for a screen this size. In fact, the lid gives if you push in the center with a single finger. Not good.

I stressed it with Grand Prix 4 at max graphics, and the heat from the exhaust vents was outrageous. I appreciate that the fans and heatsinks are only doing their job properly, but overall the machine still gets frighteningly hot. Not good for the long term health of components. Are they really worth the heat, bulk, and short battery life if like me you're not a big gamer?

I've gone for a Sony PCG-GRX516 instead, and I'm nothing short of delighted with it. It has exactly the same 16-inch UXGA screen as the Sager (protected by an apparently bulletproof titanium lid), significantly longer battery life (3 hours plus) and a good deal less weight and bulk. It only has an ATI M7 32MB on board and a 400Mhz FSB, but I'm not a major gamer so why worry.

In short, if you want that 16-inch screen but don't need amazing 3d performance and lots of toys, go for a Sony. It also happens to look cooler too.
post #2 of 31
4/17/03 at 6:38am
Thread Starter 
P.S. The dealer insisted that he's had very good experiences so far with the 8886 and 8887, but said the 5660 is a piece of unreliable junk and he's had so many RMAs he's not ordering any more from Clevo. In fact he showed me three siting in his RMA pile which died in customers' arms in a matter of days.

This guy is the sole Clevo (the Taiwanese ODM who makes the Sagers) dealer here in Hungary, and he tells me that his experience with their machines over the years has been somewhat varied. Some models are excellent, he says, but others are disasters, and build quality from one individual machine to another is more variable than with other manufacturers.

Just my (and his) two cents' worth.
post #3 of 31
4/17/03 at 9:17am
I have a PCG-GRV680 brand new Sony Vio here. Comparing it with the 8887, the only difference in lid flex is because the lid is up against the LCD in the Sony, but has clearance in the 8887. So when you push on the lid in the 8887, it has a couple mm before it touches the LCD. With the Sony, you're putting direct pressure on the LCD. Yeah, it's a little bit more stiff, but I'd rather have the clearance. Also, many of the flaps and covers for the Sony is the thinnest and cheapest plastic I've ever seen on a laptop. To top it off, you have to get it with their OS that's pre-installed with as much junk software as they could find.

If you don't want a Sager, get a Dell. You still get the software and pay a lot more for either than the Sager, but it's built well like the Sager.

I would say that guy has no idea what he's talking about because the 56XX is a very solid machine, the only thing I would say it lacks is the video out is dim.

The feedback I get is Sager used to be lower end and have really picked up especially in the last 1-2 years to produce solid machines.

People don't walk up to cars and kick the tire to decide which is the best quality, nor should they do it with laptops.
post #4 of 31
4/17/03 at 10:10am
"... the only thing I would say it lacks is the video out is dim."

What do you mean by that?
No good output-quality?

That's quite important for me because i would like to present powerpoint presentations on TV at work. Those presentation also contain some movies/video.
The 56xx video-output won't perform well in such applications?
post #5 of 31
4/17/03 at 10:15am
heh. when you made that comment about the powerpoint presetation it dawned on me what that tv hookup was really for. for some reason i was under the impression that the tv out was good for hooking your cable connection from the wall on watching tv on the pc. i thought of it as a neat novelty but little use. now i see.

i am losing my mind.
post #6 of 31
4/17/03 at 10:22am
I think you had SVIDEO out confused with the TV Tuner on the 888X's. There is an option to actually plug cable in and watch tv on them.
post #7 of 31
4/17/03 at 10:23am
I'm not sure but i believe this is the difference:
- The 56xx is configured with s-video out.
- The 88xx is configured with s-video out and also has an option for cable input. This is an option so it is not standard.

But if i'm not mistaken there is a usb-tv-tuner available for the 56xx. So it is possible to watch TV on your 56xx. But i've heard it lacks quality.

You could always check the specs at pctorque.com
post #8 of 31
4/17/03 at 10:24am
I see my reaction came a bit late.
post #9 of 31
4/17/03 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally posted by cauliflowers
I...- The 88xx is configured with s-video out and also has an option for cable input. This is an option so it is not standard...
The 888x series does have TV-Tuners standard in most base-model configurations. Getting one without the tuner is more of a special order/customized version.

Thinking back, I probably would have got a second HD in the TUNER spot rather than a TV-tuner or where it is now (second media bay).

-myrkat
post #10 of 31
4/17/03 at 11:13am
But what about the quality of the s-video out?
Poor....?
post #11 of 31
4/17/03 at 11:24am
I think the S-Video is fine, the analog monitor output is dim though. If you have a good display, you just have to turn up the brightness and probably won't notice. If you have a lower end display or one that isn't very bright, it will appear dim.
post #12 of 31
4/17/03 at 6:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Adam@PCTorque
the only difference in lid flex is because the lid is up against the LCD in the Sony, but has clearance in the 8887. So when you push on the lid in the 8887, it has a couple mm before it touches the LCD. With the Sony, you're putting direct pressure on the LCD. Yeah, it's a little bit more stiff, but I'd rather have the clearance.
Yeah, right! On my Sony the lid's nowhere near the LCD, and if you call solid titanium "a little bit more stiff" you're pushing it!

But then you sell 8887s for a living.
post #13 of 31
4/17/03 at 6:46pm
you are just a tool of the conspiracy
post #14 of 31
4/17/03 at 6:56pm

No Sony Bashing here

I used the Sony and it is no doubt a nice laptop. Make sure you have your own OS and Drivers CD so that you can do the OS and partitions yourself without resorting to the useless recovery CD Sony gives you.

They load up so much crap that it smothers the system...When I bench a system I close all taskbar apps - the Sony gave me a faulking headache doing this everytime I restarted the system (most apps could not be closed and stopped from running from within the app).

The LCD on the Sony is heavier than the base - it will tip over if you have it on your lap and you're not careful. The plastic is CHEAP - keys feel like alphabet blocks you get your 3 year old kid...

They have horrible flabs and metal links made out of soldering lead Honestly - the sony build quality is nothing to write home about. They are loads more expensive than the Sager too...

But its not a bad laptop if you can get it set up to your taste - it has a nice screen too...

And LazyFox - the LCD is bang against the lid smack the lid and you'll chip the LCD or crack it...no doubt about that.

The 8887 lid is too thin IMO - they should have something running across it to stiffen it a little more - maybe put in a backing material, foam between the LCD and the lid...
post #15 of 31
4/17/03 at 7:25pm

Re: No Sony Bashing here

Quote:
Originally posted by gsferrari
...The 8887 lid is too think IMO...
I call that GROWING room! The shell can be used for the next big thing: portable plasma displays! Yeah, that's it!

I don't find the screen/lid on my 8887 weak and flimsy... heck, I can almost lift the base/keyboard portion when I pushed on it (dead center, top) and didn't hold the base...

It seems pretty stiff to me. The thickness is nice like a thick car door... sure they can be just as strong and thinner, but it's the psychological value!

-myrkat
post #16 of 31
4/17/03 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally posted by lazyfox
Yeah, right! On my Sony the lid's nowhere near the LCD, and if you call solid titanium "a little bit more stiff" you're pushing it!

But then you sell 8887s for a living.
<Mafia accent> How dare you come to our forum and dishonor our family, you will regret that decision </Mafia accent>

ok I admit, I don't watch the sopranos or any of those old mafia movies, so you'll have to excuse the lame impression =]

I'm willing to forget about that comment atleast on the basis of you not being here long enough to know what your saying.

(or you can say stfu to the member with like 32 posts )

regards,
Hype
post #17 of 31
4/17/03 at 10:04pm
I have 8887 and I'm agree with gsferrari. The plastic lid cover LCD screen on 8887 is too thin in my opinion. I used to have Dell Inspiron, IBM Thinkpad, and Sony laptop... all of them have much much stronger lid than Sager 8887.
Well, it's not a big deal for me since I use my 8887 as a desktop replacement at home only. I never move it from my desk anyway. When I travel or goto school, I already have Dell Inspiron M600 with me.
post #18 of 31
4/17/03 at 10:30pm
The 32MB VRAM would ruin the Sony for me. May I ask, why would you get such a large laptop if you aren't using it as a power user? Wouldn't a smaller one be more suited to your needs?

Curiosity strikes.

-Gumpan
post #19 of 31
4/17/03 at 10:51pm

Sony in the 5670 review...

I have reviewed the Sony GRV-680 in the gsferrari 5670 review.

It has a 64MB Radeon 9000 and I think this is the way to go if you are planning to buy a Sony. No other Sony laptop can match the Sagers for performance.

Be aware however that the Sony has oc'd their GPU to ridiculously high levels. I didnt check to see if there was any artifacting in games but I am sure there will be because we cannot clock the same M9 so high in the sagers without some artifacting. So be advised....
post #20 of 31
4/17/03 at 11:09pm

Re: Sony in the 5670 review...

Quote:
Originally posted by gsferrari
I have reviewed the Sony GRV-680 in the gsferrari 5670 review.

It has a 64MB Radeon 9000 and I think this is the way to go if you are planning to buy a Sony. No other Sony laptop can match the Sagers for performance.

Be aware however that the Sony has oc'd their GPU to ridiculously high levels. I didnt check to see if there was any artifacting in games but I am sure there will be because we cannot clock the same M9 so high in the sagers without some artifacting. So be advised....
Ah, but the sony may have a better heat sink/fan that would allow the higher clock speeds. Remember the sager 56xx series has changed default clock speeds from 180->159->190 due to changes in the cooling system. IMHO the sony is a decent alternative however a couple of the main strikes against it in my book is the price and the preinstalled crap. You can get a much better machine for the same price elsewhere. Not to mention their tech support is a ? as well.
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