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5660 on warranty return...

post #1 of 27
4/18/03 at 11:35am
Thread Starter 
Sad, i am today. Here is my little story.

As you guys know i bought a 5660 2.4 512 ddr 40 gig combo drive, lowest config slow hdd as i ain't a rich guy.

This is what happens, i have been running that machine and carrying it everywhere. Maybe over 10 hours a day, compiling, gaming, ripping, coding etc ...

2 days agao i get hone and setup my box, connect my speakers, power supply and ethernet to my monitor less desktop. Pressed Power on. NO post, no beep and more importantly no VGA. I became mad and for the next 2 hours tried everything. The cd dj audio works when off. I eventually found the problem.

If i apply a light pressure on the keyboard ( around the JKLUI keys ) then i can boot, POST is successful, beep is ok, VGA is back. But after 10 minutes, the display crashes and eventually so is my machine.

I opened the keyboard and remove the metal board underneath. Next to the RAM is a black connector which 'CLIPS' into the mobo. I believe it to be the AGP/VGA connector. When i press on it ( lightly ) then the box boots. But as said before, it 'UNCLIPS' on its own after a few minutes.

So i brought it to my reseller. Here are my fears:

- I do not run any MS operating system on it, and i am afraid to get a 'your warranty isn't valid' as Linux isn't supported. My point is this is ABSOLUTELY IN NO WAY related to software problem, but it is a 100% HARWARE failure.

- I have opened the processor cage/blower part as i work in a cybercafe in A'Dam and there is lots of smoke, and the fans were getting clogged up with dust.

I belive the vibration of travelling everyday by bike and tram have resulted in this issue. It will take 2 weeks. Hope it will go allright, i 'll be posting.


Damn it is hard being without my 'monster lappy' and even harder having to use the cpublic win98 boxes of the cybercafe.
Please comment.

By the way, i have bought that machine with 'NO Operating System' and therefore have never signed any guarrantee that stipulates i have to run it.
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post #2 of 27
4/18/03 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Damn it is hard being without my 'monster lappy' and even harder having to use the cpublic win98 boxes of the cybercafe.
I know how you feel my friend... I finally managed to get in contact with Sager and I have to return my "monster lappy" to get the lousy CMOS battery replaced... fortunately, I still have the original box and PLENTY of styrofoam peanuts to send it to them...

It is going to be a l-o-n-g two weeks though.

-Tom
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post #3 of 27
4/18/03 at 12:39pm

On the topic of Linux...

While I was at PC Torque I was talking to Adam about the Linux and Warranty issues. Usually if you do a windows install before sendint the laptop in for the replacement no one will notice...

But with Linux there is the chance that they will not honor your warranty - this is because if the risks that you took knowingly to run that OS on your system.

I am not bashing the linux but I would prefer to keep it with less expensive and hardier desktops.

Let us know how it goes...

If your real name has any connection with your handle on the forums I suggest you change your handle immediately Never know who is watching...
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post #4 of 27
4/19/03 at 12:41pm
Thread Starter 

gsferrari

Hehe, No my real name has no relation from far or near with my nick on sager forums.

As well, you are right and anybody running linux on the sager should have a small hdd with a MS OS on it and swap it for warranty returns ?

Well, that is fooling around, and i consider that the reseller sold me the computer without an OS, therefore i should be entitled a 'harware warranty'. Still, you right it is still tricky.

The only thing is i have no way i can back up that 40 gigs drive anywhere, second, the computer doesn't sta on long enough to install MS on it. I even tried Ghosting it ( 4 minutes hdd dump ) and it didn't hold.

Anyway, the machine rocks, and i hope just changing this vga cable/connector is gonna be taken care by my warranty. Hope, Hope and more hope. Thanks for the support.
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post #5 of 27
4/23/03 at 12:34pm
Where, exactly, does it say that running Linux somehow voids your warranty? That's absurd.

Laclasse, there's *NO WAY* that a reseller should look at your machine and say, "Um, sorry, we can't fix this because you're running a different OS."

If that happens, let everyone know.
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post #6 of 27
4/30/03 at 4:25pm
interesting, and somewhat troubling.. I dual boot winXP and redhat 8.0 on my 5660.. I'd hate to know take it in only to found problems arising from that..

hmm i wonder if that'd be a problem.. hell i ORDERED my laptop with no OS
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post #7 of 27
5/9/03 at 12:30pm
Thread Starter 

More news

Hi all,

Well had some bad news today. I spoke to a technician that had my lappy in pieces in front of him and told me my mainboard was 2 years old. I was surprised as i don't recall the Brookdale i845E out 2 years ago. They say the back cpu compartement has been opened and that has a good chance to void the warranty. Still don't know how much the mobo vga connector replacement will be.

I did opened it cause i wirk in very smoky environments and my fans were getting clogged up after 3 days, and mentionned it too. Anyhow, sad lesson. They shipped me the hdd back. Gonna have to wait another 2 weeks.

Damn, i am upset and without a machine for a while now...

Chiphart :

If you buy a Toshiba, Dell, IBM and Compaq/HP laptop and remove the originally installed operating system, you are voiding the warranty.
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post #8 of 27
5/9/03 at 12:49pm
I've never heard of that before - and believe me, my office has dozens of laptops from those brands, none of which are running the originally installed OS and most of which have bumped into a warranty issue.

Nonetheless, you should be buying your Sagers withOUT an OS, as you know well :-)
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post #9 of 27
5/9/03 at 12:50pm
Actually, this is a note for PC Torque:

You could pre-install one of the Linux distros on these machines and I bet you'd have some demand for it (read: $$ to you).
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post #10 of 27
5/9/03 at 1:22pm

an idea but...

I am sure PC Torque would have no chance of carrying out your wishes because :-

a] They dont have the time
b] Linux is more of an art than a science...
3] Linux is usually not recommended for gamers...I dont know if it supports HT but even if it does...whats the point if you cannot play your favorite games...unless you are totally not into games in which case its ok
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post #11 of 27
5/9/03 at 2:01pm

Re: an idea but...

Quote:
Originally posted by gsferrari
I am sure PC Torque would have no chance of carrying out your wishes because :-
a] They dont have the time


Huh? Aren't these machines sold with WinXP on them already? I can tell you from experience that loading Linux takes a LOT less time.

There are lots of companies who sell machines with Linux preinstalled at a premium. It's not very difficult.
Quote:
3] Linux is usually not recommended for gamers...I dont know if it supports HT but even if it does...whats the point if you cannot play your favorite games...unless you are totally not into games in which case its ok
Right - but it's not gamers who are loading linux on their machines most of the time, either. So - different market.
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post #12 of 27
5/9/03 at 2:07pm
Thread Starter 

gsferrari

Umm, Do you really think that windows does support HT ?
Could you explain me how, with a Operating system compiled with pentiumpro optimisations ( XP Pro ) you can use Hyper Threading in your system applications, games or any other applications ? Could someone show me a pic of the Hardware manager showing 2 CPU ? I am really curious about it.

The gcc 3.4 branch will fully support Hyper Theading. By the way the only compiler on the market that support HT is the Intel C / C++ linux compiler. none other. You cannot recompile / rebuilt a program enabling HT on windows in the application. Installing a binary != compiling a binary. All windows programs are shipped as binaries. On linux, you are building your OWN binary on YOUR system, OPTIMIZED for your processor, ram etc ....

Linux is a science. even more that you can think. Unix is as well and as been since 1960. Lokk at the internet. Why do you email adresses have this form ? Unix. Why are your path to url with / instead of the DOS \ ? Cause of Unix. Computing as been Unix fro years, and Linux and Unix are an exact computing sciences. It ain't an art, but it requires a lot of work, reading and a incredible dose of masochism.

The gaming situation is true, but it has been progressing fast. Wine 3.0 runs 1942 and a bunch of new games. True true, if you are gamer, you certainly would not linux on the workstaion ( apart for HL, CS, Quake3, Quake2, Quake, RtCW, UT, Tactical Ops, UT2003, Max Paine, Tribes2, SimCity, The Sims ) but you will definately have linux as a game server ( latest stats indicated a whooping 92 % of free CS servers on Linux ).

Bah, you will HAVE to learn it, soon or later, or the computing expertise/experience isn't complete.
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post #13 of 27
5/9/03 at 4:31pm
Its been posted. Showing dual cpus on this boards. I tried a quick search but couldnt find the pick. Think Gsferrari, or mykcat posted it. If you read around its quite verified. Not a lochness monster or bigfoot. lol It is indeed real, and proven.
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post #14 of 27
5/9/03 at 4:55pm
Yeah, check out the photos in my photo-review (click in my sig)... Taskmanager shows 2 CPU's as does the device manager.

-myrkat
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post #15 of 27
5/9/03 at 5:01pm
Yeah, it shows up as 2 CPU's in the device manager and when you check the task manager's performance tab.
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post #16 of 27
5/9/03 at 5:11pm
Thread Starter 

well

Does that guarrantee that my OS is using it ? Are evry games ouit there HT optimized ?
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post #17 of 27
5/9/03 at 5:25pm
My theory is, it's all handled in the BIOS, and the BIOS tells the OS that there are two physical processors there; therefore, if the OS has SMP support, then it'll use the SMP-kernel & drivers.

I could be wrong, and someone pointed out (in another thread) that XP Home supports SMT but not SMP, therefore would "see" the HT processor. I still have my doubts, as I was under the impression XP Home was only a uniprocessor kernel.

Anyway, this is the same tired argument for REAL SMP - only if the apps take advantage of it (which few do, fewer still on Windows). However, the OS does take advantage of it, as I can pop in and out of BF1942, NWN, and other "big games" and go to my dekstop and do other crap, and not notice any real degredation of performance. This may not be fancy real-world gains, but the only app I use that is SMP-aware is my DVD authoring app, and it's darn close to real-time encoding (is MUCH slower on my Athlon 2100+ XP system, like 2-3x slower).

So take it all with a grain of salt. I know *nix is better equipped to handle more advanced processors and all, but Windows isn't THAT ignorant (or at least it's got me fooled).

-myrkat
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post #18 of 27
5/9/03 at 6:24pm
Laclasse's point is still an important one: things like HT and multi-processor machines are part of Linux looooong before they're part of the Windows world.

More importantly...I don't even *think* about needing stuff like HT because the apps are so much more efficient to begin with. Not only is that a generic result of the OS, but the ability to compile it for your specific machine is a big deal.

As for the miracle of HT under Windows - does anyone have some real-life specs about the effect it has?
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post #19 of 27
5/9/03 at 6:42pm
Search google for it and you will find a lot of information comparing the 3.06 with HT and with HT disabled and the benchmark scores are usually about the same with the HT beating it out by a little bit. But, and I know this is not very specific, the 3.06 HT p4 feels SO much faster than my friends 2.8 ghz p4 desktop. I mean, it feels more than just 200 mhz faster.
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post #20 of 27
5/9/03 at 8:34pm
Quote:
Originally posted by chiphart
...does anyone have some real-life specs about the effect it has?
You mean other than what I posted?

Let me re-phrase it: HT makes everyday tasks (using the OS) much smoother. I can have more things going at once and still have a very smooth and snappy OS (e.g. running explorer / doing file operations). Or while one thing is running (game, mpeg2-encoder, CD-rip/encode) I can do other things w/o any slow-down.

I don't imagine HT improves the apps themselves, but in the LARGER PICTURE, the whole system runs smoother when doing more things. I had NON-HT for a while (prior to BIOS update) and it's a fast laptop, so it's really hard to tell what the improvement is in applications (3.06GHz is a lot of CPU right now), but I did notice the smoothness in task-switching, etc. after HT.

-myrkat
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