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Still prefer the Sony

post #1 of 28
4/22/03 at 2:34am
Thread Starter 
Well, well, well... aren't you lot all a bit touchy!!

1. I have checked out the screen clearance issue and those who say the Sony lid is poorer are in FANTASYLAND. I don't know which Sony model you are talking about, but the lid on mine is only marginally closer to the LCD than the 8887, and is totally rigid - I need to exert some serious pressure on it to either push it in or flex the screen. NOT SO with the 8887 screen, which wobbles around when you touch it. Fact. I have been using laptops and notebooks since 1989, and know enough about build quality to make a pretty informed judgement.

2. Of course I am aware of the Sony bloatware/recovery CD nonsense. Big deal. When I bought the machine I simply reinstalled from my existing XP CD, reactivated, and then installed the Sony drivers, which are conveniently in a seperate folder on one of the CDs you get with the machine (just like the Sager).

3. THe GPU on my system is NOT overclocked, ridiculously or otherwise. In fact it appears to have been rather UNDERclocked - using the ATI overclocking tool I have squeezed about 20% more Mhz from both the memory and engine clocks without any artifacting AT ALL in any 3d games. Also, the Sony has a dedicated GPU cooling fan and duct, which means it's probably a lot safer to overclock than many laptops.

4. Just because I don't need ultra-fast 3d performance doesn't mean I am not a "power user." Or do power users only play games? The programs I mostly use, QuarkXpress 5.0 and Photoshop 7.0, don't need that much video power, but they sure need plenty of RAM and processor Mhz. They are both almost unuseable on a typical laptop LCD, but the 16.1" SXGA screen gives me desktop resolution both on the move and at the office.

Sorry to be the fly in the ointment, but I am still happier with the Sony - it's lighter, stronger and will probably last much longer, and if it means I can't play GTA3 at 50 fps it's a small penalty to pay.
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post #2 of 28
4/22/03 at 3:00am

touchy?

Which Sony did you get? The GRV680?? its got nice hardware but the plastic is a mite cheap...

Otherwise the laptop is good - what utility did you use to check the clock settings? When I reviewed the sony it had a clock setting of 220. Now I tend to think that the sager kept the clock at 190 for a reason - maybe its because the sager has poor cooling OR maybe because that is what the M9 is meant to run at. If the Sony has its GPU clocked at 220 then either they have incorporated better cooling OR they are screwing you in the long run...

The LCD's are about the same between the sager and sony but the 5670 screen edges out the others.

It could go either way Play a few games and let us know if you like your new laptop...

And it looks like you're the one getting touchy after all If you felt the need to start off your thread in that fashion then there must be some ill will festering under your hood knock it off and join in the fun - what we need is hardware - who cares where the hell its coming from
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post #3 of 28
4/22/03 at 8:22am

Re: Still prefer the Sony

Quote:
Originally posted by lazyfox
Well, well, well... aren't you lot all a bit touchy!!

1. I have checked out the screen clearance issue and those who say the Sony lid is poorer are in FANTASYLAND. I don't know which Sony model you are talking about, but the lid on mine is only marginally closer to the LCD than the 8887, and is totally rigid - I need to exert some serious pressure on it to either push it in or flex the screen. NOT SO with the 8887 screen, which wobbles around when you touch it. Fact. I have been using laptops and notebooks since 1989, and know enough about build quality to make a pretty informed judgement.

2. Of course I am aware of the Sony bloatware/recovery CD nonsense. Big deal. When I bought the machine I simply reinstalled from my existing XP CD, reactivated, and then installed the Sony drivers, which are conveniently in a seperate folder on one of the CDs you get with the machine (just like the Sager).

3. THe GPU on my system is NOT overclocked, ridiculously or otherwise. In fact it appears to have been rather UNDERclocked - using the ATI overclocking tool I have squeezed about 20% more Mhz from both the memory and engine clocks without any artifacting AT ALL in any 3d games. Also, the Sony has a dedicated GPU cooling fan and duct, which means it's probably a lot safer to overclock than many laptops.

4. Just because I don't need ultra-fast 3d performance doesn't mean I am not a "power user." Or do power users only play games? The programs I mostly use, QuarkXpress 5.0 and Photoshop 7.0, don't need that much video power, but they sure need plenty of RAM and processor Mhz. They are both almost unuseable on a typical laptop LCD, but the 16.1" SXGA screen gives me desktop resolution both on the move and at the office.

Sorry to be the fly in the ointment, but I am still happier with the Sony - it's lighter, stronger and will probably last much longer, and if it means I can't play GTA3 at 50 fps it's a small penalty to pay.
Who are you referring to in your post?
If you are responding to a specific post that someone made then I would suggest continuing with your post in the same thread instead of starting a new one.
It would let everyone know who and what you are referring to.

Just my $.02
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post #4 of 28
4/22/03 at 10:05am
I'm moving your love for Sony post to "Other than Sager Tech/Computer Talk".

I don't know if you're trying to start a flame war coming here or what, this sounds like the Ford Mustang guys going over to the Corvette forums trying to justify why their car is better.

I'll just say you are wrong about the lid being up against the LCD in the Sony... I'll let you in on how I know. I have a GRV680 right here and taken apart.




There's not even a single pad or anything put between them.

I was thinking about carrying Sony, but my opinion was I wasn't impressed. I think IBM Thinkpads are nice, I think Dells are nice, and of course I like Sager and Acer, but there are a lot of things about the Sony I think are just not quality.

That's my opinion based on facts and specs. You've already made yours clear thank you.
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post #5 of 28
4/22/03 at 10:28am
Also, watch those hinges. The brackets that hold the LCD to the hinge is already bent in the few times it's been opened and closed.

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post #6 of 28
4/22/03 at 10:28am
One hell of a way to end that debate.

Way to go Adam.
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post #7 of 28
4/22/03 at 12:41pm
The incredable hulk must have opened that laptop at full force
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post #8 of 28
4/23/03 at 10:43am
No, lazyfox was pushing on it "with some force" to see if he could get it to flex. Hehehe.
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post #9 of 28
4/23/03 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Psychobob
One hell of a way to end that debate.

Way to go Adam.
Lol, that is what we refer to as ownage. Thanks for the pics Adam.
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post #10 of 28
4/30/03 at 3:00pm

hehe...

Dern it...i missed a good one...talk about shut me up stuff. Its good to have a flame now and then...i mean, it would be put out in no time, but hey, i guess it builds character.

And adam, i would have said "Domestics vs Imports"...now thats what i call a flame war!!
Also, have you ever considered having a Sager Convention?
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post #11 of 28
5/12/03 at 12:46pm
Thread Starter 

Sony v Sager

[quote]Originally posted by Adam@PCTorque
[b]I'm moving your love for Sony post to "Other than Sager Tech/Computer Talk".

I have been on holiday, so no time to read your response until now.

First off, why move my post and hide it in here? Is a direct comparison between the 8887 (which you will see from previous posts I was seriously considering buying) and another product suddenly off-topic? Oh, I forgot, you don't want potential customers to be put off...

Secondly, I took apart my Sony just like you did, didn't see any bent hinges, and didn't see the LCD being "hard up" against the LCD - it's closer than the Sager, I agree, but it's still a heck of a lot less flexible so it doesn't need a ton of clearance, does it? It still doesn't wobble when you move it.

Look, if you didn't happen to sell the Sagers for a living I might feel more inclined to give more credence to your opinions. Please don't trash a perfectly valid post with photos that prove nothing and then accuse the orginator of starting a flame war. Not clever.
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post #12 of 28
5/12/03 at 12:57pm

take a hint and leave

Yes he sells Sager Laptops
Yes he likes his business
Yes he hates competition as much as the next guy

No he doesnt have to lie in his comparisons...he is just as interested in Hardware as we are and he loves his games too so dont go calling names or passing comments for no reason.

You like the sony? so did I - I just 'happen' to like the 5670 and the 8887 a lot more. They have more character and much better performance than the sony.

Yes the Sony is nice...just not quite nice enough or unique enough. And by the way - Sager notebooks are not for everyone - take your pick, pick up a few hints once in a while and bugger off...
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post #13 of 28
5/12/03 at 1:13pm

Re: Sony v Sager

Quote:
Originally posted by lazyfox

why move my post and hide it in here? Is a direct comparison between the 8887 (which you will see from previous posts I was seriously considering buying) and another product suddenly off-topic? Oh, I forgot, you don't want potential customers to be put off...
lol, you got me, I tried my best to hide your post about your love for Sony but I guess I failed because people are still finding it!
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post #14 of 28
5/12/03 at 1:58pm

Still prefer the SONY

So, If you're so sure that the Sony is the better machine, then BUY one and leave this group.

Your vehement defense of the Sony sounds like over compensation inspired by insecurity.
Tool.
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post #15 of 28
5/12/03 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Well, well, well... aren't you lot all a bit touchy!!

1. I have checked out the screen clearance issue and those who say the Sony lid is poorer are in FANTASYLAND. I don't know which Sony model you are talking about, but the lid on mine is only marginally closer to the LCD than the 8887, my commentary - Sager comparison #1and is totally rigid - I need to exert some serious pressure on it to either push it in or flex the screen. NOT SO with the 8887 screen, which wobbles around when you touch it. my commentary - Sager comparison #2 Fact. I have been using laptops and notebooks since 1989, and know enough about build quality to make a pretty informed judgement.

2. Of course I am aware of the Sony bloatware/recovery CD nonsense. Big deal. When I bought the machine I simply reinstalled from my existing XP CD, reactivated, and then installed the Sony drivers, which are conveniently in a seperate folder on one of the CDs you get with the machine (just like the Sager). my commentary - ohhh Sager reference #3, not really comparison though.

3. THe GPU on my system is NOT overclocked, ridiculously or otherwise. In fact it appears to have been rather UNDERclocked - using the ATI overclocking tool I have squeezed about 20% more Mhz from both the memory and engine clocks without any artifacting AT ALL in any 3d games. Also, the Sony has a dedicated GPU cooling fan and duct, which means it's probably a lot safer to overclock than many laptops.

4. Just because I don't need ultra-fast 3d performance doesn't mean I am not a "power user." Or do power users only play games? The programs I mostly use, QuarkXpress 5.0 and Photoshop 7.0, don't need that much video power, but they sure need plenty of RAM and processor Mhz. They are both almost unuseable on a typical laptop LCD, but the 16.1" SXGA screen gives me desktop resolution both on the move and at the office.

Sorry to be the fly in the ointment, but I am still happier with the Sony - it's lighter, stronger and will probably last much longer, and if it means I can't play GTA3 at 50 fps it's a small penalty to pay.
Now to parts of the second post.

Quote:
First off, why move my post and hide it in here? Is a direct comparison between the 8887 (which you will see from previous posts I was seriously considering buying) and another product suddenly off-topic? Oh, I forgot, you don't want potential customers to be put off...
<snip>
If you really wanted to do a comparison you would have kept using the original thread that started this discussion. As it is this is a thread about sony's not a comparison between the different models. Thus it should be in the "Other than Sager" section.
Where in the first post do you ever mention the other thread with the 8887 comparison? You only actually mention the 8887 twice and those do not imo make up much of a "direct comparison".


Quote:
Look, if you didn't happen to sell the Sagers for a living I might feel more inclined to give more credence to your opinions. Please don't trash a perfectly valid post with photos that prove nothing and then accuse the orginator of starting a flame war. Not clever.
The above sounds like a vegan going to a Black Angus Steak House and whining about getting something without meat. Try wearing a tshirt with "I love Andrew Dice Clay" and a pic of him to a feminist rally sometime and see what kind of reaction you get (don't forget to not shave for a day or so first).

Or better yet since your name includes 'fox' try wearing some fur to a PETA rally and watch the reactions.

If all you want to do is argue about sony's then go to the sony site and sit with the happy shiny people. While your there why don't you post that the xbox rules the PS2 because the color of the box is better?

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post #16 of 28
5/12/03 at 3:23pm

LMAO

Are you a lawyer or something? HA HA HA

What a way to present your case Sir James...I am deeply honoured to have had the opportunity to read this post...

screw it!! WHAT A MEGA POST!!


YOU RULE!!
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post #17 of 28
5/12/03 at 8:03pm

hahah

HAHAHAHA!!!! COMEDY!! LOL
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post #18 of 28
5/13/03 at 9:17pm

sony blows.............and I won't say what

Hi:

A Sony laptop is the reason that I found my way to these forums.
I am the owner(victim) of a Sony Vaio PCGF540. I bought it new almost 3 yrs ago. I bought it at Circut City a week before I had to make a trip overseas. That was my third bad move on that craptop. The first was going to Circuit City. The second was buying a Sony.

I was told the unit had 128meg on RAM and 8 meg of video RAM. Imagine my suprise when I got to my destination and I tried to load and play several of my games that needed 3Dfx support. The unit only had 3meg of video RAM and 64meg of on board. And as far as upgrading the video and memory, well the main memory can only go as high as 128meg, and the video memory is fixed at 3 meg and the AGP option on the video chip is crippled by the Sony software. At the time this laptop was sold as a video editing tool, among other alleged virtues.

I am used to building desktops and upgrading as needed to keep current. That Vaio was a hard and painful lesson. And that explains why I have come here and why I have taken a wait-and-see approach to getting another laptop.

So if you love Sony, then have fun and enjoy, I hope the two of you will be verryyyyy happy together. But as for me it will be a COLD DAY IN HELL before I buy another Sony computer product.

As far as loading a copy of your OS and then installing the Sony drivers, enjoy that nutbuster too. If you use a clean OS to set up the machine and then go to the system recovery disks to install the drivers and apps that came with the Vaio, the Sony disks will WIPE out the Cab files that your OS used to set up Windows. Been there, done that............But will give u an A+ for effort....

I had to do do that to my Vaio because evertime I had to restart it due to software updates, it always gave me a himem.sys corrupt error. On the Vaio site for this model this is a LISTED and known issue. The advise from Sony is to use their system disks to do a clean reinstalll. Let me give you a hint....FURGETABOUTITTTT!! Be prepared to REINSTALL your OS over again, and again and again until you find and kill all of the driver errors caused by dropping in a clean and REAL version of windows. I found this out the hard way with W2K and 98.

My wife is overseas with my daughter and the Vaio and I will be heading over there in 3-4 weeks to meet them. I told her that when we come home I'm going to pour kerosene on that cow pie and have a barbeque with it.

We all have different taste in many things in life. But it is important to have taste to begin with. For example owning a Browing Hi Power or Colt Gold Cup shows taste. Owning a Glock shows the limits of your budget or common sense. Owning a Sager shows taste. Owing a Sony will leave you with a taste.............of something bitter in your mouth, wallet and other orafices!!!!!!!

Just my .04 cents, make change with it if you wish.....
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post #19 of 28
5/13/03 at 10:58pm

Re: sony blows.............and I won't say what

Quote:
Originally posted by pcbunker
...I'm going to pour kerosene on that cow pie and have a barbeque with it...
Now that would be something worth taking a vid and posting it (I'm sure Adam or someone would host it)... I know I'd like to see a laptop BBQ!

-myrkat
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post #20 of 28
5/13/03 at 11:02pm

GREAT!! thats two laptops goind down...

First gr8gatzby wants to drown his laptop and now pcbunker wants to burn his laptop!!

Guys!!! If you dont like your laptops at least give em to me!!



it was worth trying never know what a desperate man will do...I expect two UPS...nah...two FedEX deliveries in the next week ...one 8887 and one Sony GR8Sht
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