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5670 Review - Page 3

post #41 of 49
5/9/03 at 1:00pm
Since I can't tell what a Sager is like until I order it (no stores around here for them) I'll just have to order one and return it if I don't like it.
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post #42 of 49
5/9/03 at 1:23pm
Thread Starter 
laclasse:

The IR stack is not supported under Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition. That was the problem I was having; it is not a Sager issue at all.

The headphone jack is poorly grounded / shielded. This is chipset independent. Although it is arguable about how much of a problem this is, it is a problem, and this is the first laptop I've ever had where it's a problem. It is certainly only a problem in light of the mystifying lack of an analog line out port.

As far as I know, the S/PDIF out on the ALC201 is a two channel output, not 5.1. If there's a way to get 5.1 out of it, please let me know, because my 3/5ths of my speakers are idle right now.

Also, the optical out is only on the 5670. The 8887 apparently uses a coaxial out. This caused me a lot of confusion.

If you check your Chinese-English dictionary, you will see that "Realtek" is a slang term used in Taiwan meaning "crap." Although I think you have a valid point for laptop sound, in that I'm not sure who might use a better part. And many won't even tell you what they're using.

Certainly the audio part (I think it's a ALC201, not a 200B) is not Realtek's absolute bottom of the barrel part like the Ethernet chip is.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the audio features of the ICH3-M are actually used. If it were wired up, it would show up in the device manager as "Intel(R) 82801 CA/CAM AC'97" and its PCI vendor/device IDs would be visible on a probe, no?
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post #43 of 49
5/9/03 at 1:27pm
Thread Starter 
vanfanel:

Oops, you are quite correct. The Geforce 4 4600 is a no-Go model.

http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?PAGE=geforce4go

I like the NVidia drivers better (cough 16:10 cough cough), but you're certainly right that the marketroid responsible for these names needs the bamboo fingernail treatment.
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post #44 of 49
5/9/03 at 1:53pm

Drivers

Weird. I do not run windows on the machine so i have to take for granted your claims, but:

On linux, using Alsa 0.9.2 stable sound drivers and compiling an intel8x0 driver, the OS finds the realtek end. I can at a touch of a button or in command line move my stereo output to 5.1 Digital out and vice versa. No duplex tho. The intel sound chipset does support 5.1 out, the connector is Spdif ( coaxial ) or Fiber optic enabled ( old connectors ).

I am sorry to say that if the 5.1 doesn't works it comes from the window driver. I do have a nice red laser light coming out of the Spdif connector at the back of my lappy tho

I agree with the shelding and the hw used on laptop is never glorious so many manufacturers prefer a 'SB compatible 16 bits sound card' mantion.

Anyhow, the point i was trying to make do not bash the sound, instead put an eepro100 or a 3c59X 10/100 Ethernet in the lappy
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post #45 of 49
5/9/03 at 3:01pm
Thread Starter 
I have looked into this in a little more detail. The AC'97 support included on the ICH3-M is a DC'97 (AC'97 Digital Controller).

Separate from this, the audio output is handled by a separate chip called the AC'97 CODEC (yes, that's the Audio Codec Codec). The AC'97 CODEC is a discrete 48-pin QFP chip that does all the actual processing.

This may be an oversimplification, but the DC'97 has the DSP tasks (possibly stealing the CPU as needed to do so) and the CODEC handles the ADC/DAC.

If Intel even makes a discrete AC'97 CODEC, I don't know what the part number is. There does not seem to be any such part included as part of the 845MP chipset used in the Sager.

The DC'97 on the ICH3-M supports the full range of AC'97 v2.2 features. It connects to whatever CODEC you want. The CODEC drives all the ports.

The Realtek ALC201 AC'97 CODEC is, to quote from their spec sheets, "an 18-bit full duplex AC'97 2.2 compatible stereo audio CODEC." (emphasis added) According to that spec, this part can achieve multichannel output only if you use two of them chained together (two for four channels, three for six channels). This is also not the case with the Sager. By way of contrast, their high-end part, the ALC650 has specific reference to multichannel output.

That would seem to rule out 5.1 output. But maybe not.

The AC'97 2.2 standards document from Intel says that data from the DC'97 is "typically stereo PCM" (which, coincidentally, has been exactly what I have observed). The spec also describes a really complicated serial TDM protocol for sending multichannel audio data from the DC'97 to the AC'97. This spec does require that the AC'97 understand the multichannel format.

There's a rider that if an AC'97 device accepts S/PDIF in, it ought to provide a "bit-exact" copy on the S/PDIF out. But the ALC201 doesn't accept S/PDIF in, so, hmm.

You say "No duplex tho." Then how do you know you're getting a true five channel output and not a digital two-channel output? Can you do a positional audio test and get all five speakers in turn?

Also note that all of this is handled completely differently from DVD audio playback, which is another big ball of wax I haven't looked at.
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post #46 of 49
5/9/03 at 4:05pm
*decides on getting a 5670*
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post #47 of 49
5/9/03 at 4:10pm

DVDs and audio streams

You seems to forget that for getting a real 5.1 output the stream itself, the file needs to get encoded in 5.1 format ( ac3 ). Playing a Stereo MP3 on a 5.1 system will only get you stereo output.

I was purely talking about dvd playback......
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post #48 of 49
5/9/03 at 7:01pm
Thread Starter 
Hmm, who is forgetting what? "Duplex" as you used it refers to replicating a 2 channel (stereo) file such as an MP3 to 4 channels (L -> LF & LR, R -> RF & RR).

As it happens, I am testing with a 6-channel .WAV file, with DD5.1 DVDs, and DirectSound 3D.

Are you sure you're not confusing Dolby Pro Logic surround sound output for 5.1 digital? The circuitry just doesn't appear to be there to support 5.1 S/PDIF output.
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post #49 of 49
5/30/03 at 6:38am

I love my new 5670!

Hi everyone.......



I can't believe it! after a month of research, I have my baby!.... I started looking at alienware after hearing about their desktops but have always been a Dell man..... my research into alienware brought me to Sager and this site.... I was amazed at the responses and loyalty and knew there had to be quality here. After reading these forums and seeing the care Adam and Pctorque takes in the responses on here I had to take the plunge to get a kickass notebook.


I'm 38 years old but still an active gamer....(mostly americas army these days but the hackers are killing the game....) I wanted something state of the art that I could depend on and upgrade... Sager appears second to none. I loved the fact I could get a rocking video card and full size processor with a gig of ram and wireless connection with an awesome display for $5-600 less then alienware....Once I chose Sager and the 5670 I researched all the resellers and competition. Pctorque is the cheapest.... powernotebooks came close and has a good rating but Pctorque was still $10 cheaper and the care Adam takes in these forums showed me I would be a well treated customer.... I placed my order and selected next day air as I impatient and wanted it within a week..... I kid you not...it was at my door in 36 hours!!! amazing! (of course I missed the UPS guy and had to wait 90 minutes at the depot!...you need to do Fedex Adam! lol) Totally configured and ready to rock.... the batteries were even at 70%..... I am amazed at the quality, service and performance of this laptop and pctorque...I'm now a loyal customer and a Sager enthusiest.... I would have loved a chameleon colored notebook but who wanted to pay that much and wait a month for it!?! Great Job Adam!!

Thanks for all the posts and education guys!


Mike

My specs....
41 Sager 5670-V Notebook: 5670-V
Display: UXGA wide angle view 1600 X
1200 15" LCD
682 Color: Standard Grey/Blue
788 Processor: 3.06 GHz P4 533 FSB w/
Hyperthreading
558 Video: Radeon 9000 128MB DDR
450 RAM: 1024MB (2 DIMMs)
528 Hard Drive: 40GB 5400RPM
539 Media Drive: 8X DVD/24X10X24 CDRW
Combo Drive
372 2nd Media Drive: No
350 Modem: 56K V.90
351 Network Card: 10/100 NIC
352 Operating System: Windows XP Home
702 Keyboard Layout: USA
353 Floppy Drive: 3.5" Floppy Drive
354 Battery: Primary Li-ION battery pack
355 Case: Basic Black business case
372 12V Car Power Adapter: No
439 Dual Battery Setup: Li-ION battery
for Bay 2
372 Spare Battery: No
372 Spare Power Cord: No
372 Port Replicator: No
769 Wireless Network: Integrated Wireless
754 External Sound Device: No
750 Software Bundle: No
291 Office Software: No
797 Warranty: 3 year warranty (laptop
$2001-$3000)
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