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need advice. 2 lappys from mwave (cant choose 1) - Page 3

post #41 of 77
7/8/04 at 5:51pm
imo, i don't think the performance difference between the two will be that great for regular users to notice. ... i think he should just choose which screen he likes better or which one looks better. ..

me, personally, i would choose the CL56 for Today's advantages (weight, battery, wireless). I am still using a PIII 800 at work with 256MB RAMBUS. Its about 3 - 4 years old now? Works just as fast as my P4 at home for regular applications like Photoshop, Illustrator, AIM, IE. The only difference is that at work I have a GeForce 2 and at home I have a GeForce 3 TI 500, so obviously one plays games better than the other, but nonetheless, my PIII is definately useable still and will be for the years to come (for normal use).
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post #42 of 77
7/8/04 at 6:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiOctane
Let's also set aside sale price on ebay in 4 years, Aikeo. Let's assume that within 3 years 64-bit will have started to become mainstream. Which lappy would you rather have then.

And don't tell me you wouldn't still have the same lappy in 3 years cuz I know you would have ditched it long ago , I'm talking about the scenario with which we've been presented.
If you want to make that argument, it'll probably do as well as that P3 750 shown earlier does with XP now. It may do ok, but it won't be anything special. Especially when you consider the bloat and stuff that games, apps and the OS will have and that both Intel and AMD will have MUCH better offerings at that time.

32 bit is still going to be around for a VERY long time.
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post #43 of 77
7/8/04 at 6:14pm
So who is going to be the victor in a fiew months when Windows XP 64-bit comes out? And during the rest of the product life cycle? The dothan can't even run Linux 64-bit, Windows 64-bit, and all it's upcomming software, how fun is that going to be in 1 year when the shift is done. I have a feeling that when Windows XP 64-bit finaly do come, alot of people are going to start regret their choices made in 2004... sad but true...
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post #44 of 77
7/8/04 at 6:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramificatio
So who is going to be the victor in a fiew months when Windows XP 64-bit comes out? And during the rest of the product life cycle? The dothan can't even run Linux 64-bit, Windows 64-bit, and all it's upcomming software, how fun is that going to be in 1 year when the shift is done. I have a feeling that when Windows XP 64-bit finaly do come, alot of people are going to start regret their choices made in 2004... sad but true...
hahahahaaaa good one. you think the transition is going to take one year? Intel doesn't even make mainsteam 64-bit processors yet buddy. According to you, Intel is going to be losing market share to AMD big time in the coming months.
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post #45 of 77
7/8/04 at 6:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramificatio
So who is going to be the victor in a fiew months when Windows XP 64-bit comes out? And during the rest of the product life cycle? The dothan can't even run Linux 64-bit, Windows 64-bit, and all it's upcomming software, how fun is that going to be in 1 year when the shift is done. I have a feeling that when Windows XP 64-bit finaly do come, alot of people are going to start regret their choices made in 2004... sad but true...
I think you're basing your assumptions that the 64 bit transition will be:

1) Quick
2) Painless
3) There will be a lot of software available for it quickly.

It definitely won't be quick. It will be quicker than 16 to 32 bit will be, but there's still a huge install base out there.

Painless is definitely doubtful. You're going to have MS doing a new thing, you'll have vendors writing different driver styles for the first time in many years, and you have a major platform shift coming as well with PCI-E and the like. It's not going to be as easy as people think.

Software may be up in the air. I doubt there will be a lot of software immediately available, even with Intel backing 64 bit. Intel had a hard enough time getting SSE and SSE2 software out in the market even though the processors supported it. Sure, there were a few apps, but it look a long time. Even game developers drag there feet. We have a hard enough time getting true DX9 games out now and it's been out how long now?

I give it 3 years till it really takes off, 2 is being optimistic.

I don't think people will regret either decision, both are good.
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post #46 of 77
7/8/04 at 6:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by turanuk
hahahahaaaa good one. you think the transition is going to take one year? Intel doesn't even make mainsteam 64-bit processors yet buddy. According to you, Intel is going to be losing market share to AMD big time in the coming months.
Yeah funny isn't it!
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post #47 of 77
7/8/04 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiOctane
Superguy, you're preaching to the choir:



Most of us here will have long since ditched the laptop we bought in 2004. abf, however, intends to keep and use his through all 4 years of college. Given that assumption, I would be remise not to present him with the possible downside to sticking with a 32-bit processor into a 64-bit world. At least within 4 years in my opinion.
At any rate, I wonder if he would be averse to upgrading the proc or anything during the time he'd have it.

There will be Dothans coming out that have the NX bit like the A64 enabled. Wouldn't surprise me to see a 64 bit version come out either.
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post #48 of 77
7/8/04 at 6:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramificatio
Yeah funny isn't it!
I think it's funny that AMD has had 64 bits for HOW long now and they're STILL selling more Athlon XP's than any Hammer.

Kinda hard to believe that 64 bits is going to take off quick when even AMD isn't putting its money where its mouth is.
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post #49 of 77
7/8/04 at 6:38pm
that's because the Athlon XP is the best bang for buck processor on the market.
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post #50 of 77
7/8/04 at 6:41pm
I'll be a dick and suggest the CL56 because that is what I want. You should get that one.
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post #51 of 77
7/8/04 at 6:41pm
but then again... the AMD64 does look nice also. Hmm...
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post #52 of 77
7/8/04 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by turanuk
that's because the Athlon XP is the best bang for buck processor on the market.
Bingo, and it's cheap too.

If Sempron performs about the same as an XP and just scales up higher, it'll probably beat out Hammer sales as well.

AMD fans are typically "cheaper" (I use that loosely).
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post #53 of 77
7/8/04 at 6:55pm
i prefer the term smarter, because they pay less to get a comparable if not better product.

that being said, i have a dothan in my laptop, but that's just for battery saving purposes
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post #54 of 77
7/8/04 at 7:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by turanuk
i prefer the term smarter, because they pay less to get a comparable if not better product.

that being said, i have a dothan in my laptop, but that's just for battery saving purposes
I'm not knocking intelligence ... there are equally smart and dumb people in each camp . Each company has their pros and cons.

Intel cores (physically) seem to be built a little tougher and they have better thermal handling properties (throttling and the killswitch). I won't get into how hot the Prescott is. Hyperthreading is really nice. The biggest advantage IMO is the chipset. Intel chipsets just rock. Downside is the price, more limited overclocking (ie no multiplier adjustment) and you pay more. And with Prescott, you have a big heat factor.

In my past experiences, the reasons I chose Intel were thermal management and chipset. Can't forget the 50% overclock I got out of my original Northwood 1.6 that I only paid $130 for.

AMD offers great performance at a good price. You have decent chipsets with Nvidia and Via is cleaning up their act. Integrated memory controller is a big blus. Price isn't quite as good as it used to be with the Hammers, but it's not terrible till you get to the high end.

If I were building a desktop now, I'd probably go with a Hammer or a Northwood as I don't like the Prescott's heat.

Super
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post #55 of 77
7/8/04 at 7:27pm
Thread Starter 
WOW, grew 5 pages while i was away. well, here is my 2 cents.

I think I am feeling better with Uniwill right now. I actualy re-considered my time with it. I am estimating about 3 years worth of use from it. At that point I will have to pick up a faster CPU for the mainstream 64bit junk. This might exite a few of you, seeing as in 3 years, chances are that 64 bit wouldn't yet be a major thing.

There is no doubt that it doesn't matter which system I choose, it would make a better foot stool than a computer in 4 years. I will probably get a new desktop in 2 years (currently have a P3 Coppermine EB 866mhz) and the lappy will become secondary (for now..primary). My secondary system is a P MMX 233mhz. The gap between the 2 is about 4 years and the performance differance is AMAZING. Now my Coppermine is also just under 4 years old. When I use some of the newer systems (like Dual G5 Mac in school, or a 3.4 Prescott in store or a 2.6 Northwood that my friend has) I don't see such a major differance in "everyday" performance between them and my Coppermine as I do between the coppermine and the mmx. So fine, Norton and Ad-Aware take only seconds to scan but that is about it, everything else is not too far appart (AIM, IE, Word).

I am actualy looking forward to the release of XP64 and i want to get my feet wet in the Linux world by trying FedoraCore2 64-bit.

I completely agree that the advantages of a lighter weight, better battery life and integrated wifi NOW are priceless (in this case...less than $100 more), the thing is, I am not sure how fast 64bit will come to dominate.

And BTW, as far as i know, software runs up to 30% better on a 64bit OS (except for several games such as FarCry, UT2004, Halo where it actualy runs 20% slower under WinXP 64-bit) . The improvement of 64bit software ON a 64bit OS could only be dreamed of right now.

This whole "how far will 64-bit be by 2007?" question actualy is the question knocking me off right now!

Also, I do plan on using it as a DVD player when on vacation, so a wider viewing angle of a WXGA on the uniwill would be greatly appreciated by those not sitting right in the sweet spot.
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post #56 of 77
7/8/04 at 7:31pm
Interesting discussion here...

I'll give my 2 cents... I think P-M is the better choice now.

For all those who like to futureproof themselves consider this benchmark
Look at the difference between AthlonXP 3200+ and Athlon64 3200+
The speed killer in a ray tracer is in calculating intersections... massive amounts of floating point calculations... and there's no difference between the 32bit and 64bit processors!

Also, realize that software development process to develop "decent" software is slow especially on a new architecture (think about writing sets of libraries that are optimized for 64bit)

For example the 64bit version of POV ray tracer used in the bench is still under development and they still can't get it to run faster than normal processor, and the chip's been out for 10months, plus whatever time developers have been given the preview chips

I think someone has already mentioned my next point... wtf do you expect to do with a 64bit processor in 4 yrs (which is also wut I believe takes to make 64bit mainstream)? Just like my 4yr old P3 933 will not be doing anything productive that a P4 3.0 does (P3 took 5-10 times longer to render the same image than the P4 for a ray tracer assignment I did last weekend), the Athlon64 processors now won't be able to do anything productive in 4 yrs

For everything else (word processing, surfing, etc) performance is negligible... and these are the things ur parents will be doing when ur done with the machine in 4 yrs

So it comes down to short term benefits, and since P-M and A64 are pretty close in terms for performance for 32bit operations, it comes down to other things like weight, battery life, etc, where P-M is clearly better. That being said, get a A64 to get a piece of mind for those thinking they would be playing UT2007 64bit edition in the future. As many have mentioned... it's down to personal preference (the better choice clearly demonstrated by turanuk).
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post #57 of 77
7/8/04 at 7:38pm
heh... abf... i see u already covered the majority of what i said...

you should be fine with either choice... but as a student i would like to rip a lappy out anywhere without worrying about having to plug in... on the other hand, if this is going to be a desktop replacement that doen't move much, the A64 would be a better choice
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post #58 of 77
7/8/04 at 9:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiOctane
Superguy:

Only problem I see with your speculation is whether or not the CL56 he buys NOW will support the new proc when/if it is released. Whereas, he can be sure he has a processor that supports 64-bit with the system/proc he buys now in the form of the Uniwill.
If that's really that important to him, sure.

I personally see 64 bitness as overhyped, so I wouldn't buy based on the bitness alone.

Take the hardware, weight, battery life, graphics, etc into consideration and whichever feels best, buy.
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post #59 of 77
7/8/04 at 9:21pm
Thread Starter 

my final thoughs...i think they're final

Well, it all comes down to this in the end: (all things that cancel out each other are left alone, ie ram, hd and m11 that stay the same for both)

CL56:
+: wifi
+:bat life
+:size and weight
-: "sweet spot" screen
-:questionable usability in 3 years

Uniwill:
+:"near future proof"
+: faster
+:widescreen (for dvd watching, and just a personal pref)
+:
-: no wifi
-:a bit chunky

Me:
~most of the time on wire so 3 hours battery is ok by me. (i am still in HS, i'll buy a new one for college)
~it will be on the desk most of the time, not in a bag so the extra PC card, oh well! and I like my wifi, so when b/g is no longer "the one to have" i can swap cards, and not just have an outdated feature built in.
~watch DVDs when on vacation (WXGA )
~not going to be lugging it around, and take it to school once in a while, or if its in the car for a vacation...not on my shoulder, so why should i care?


Good points I heard in posts:
~"802.11z" protocol: good point, CL56's built in wifi will be useless by 2006-2007
~both will be crap, it is just a matter of how much crap it is (Celeron to P3 comparo): idealy yes, but i will either pass this lappy down to my dad (who uses comps mostly for reading the news and playing games (card, chess...not UT) online or sell it on EBay for some "cash back" on my investment.


THE BOTTOM LINE:
I think I like the Uniwill. Now only if I can get confirmation that mwave.com is a good store and uniwill is solid? I guess i better start looking up those Mayhem G3 reviews!
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post #60 of 77
7/8/04 at 9:23pm
Good choice! Take that compaq out of your sig!
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