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I Want A Computer Job - Page 3

post #41 of 63
7/22/04 at 12:47pm
CoffeeShark, gotta agree with you on the topic of programming/hardware/quality assurance. A lot of the stuff is easier to pick up and does not require a lot of teaching, especially from a college (Which IMO, CS is a complete waste of time at a university). I actually believe that the correct major in college (for computers, that is) is not CS, but Computer/Electrical Engineering. That's the stuff you need to be taught, like how to build a processor or wire a complex digital logic circuit. That's not so easy to learn. And generally, one would go to college if they didn't already have a gameplan for what they wanted to do in life. If you're already set to be a programmer and have spent all 4 years in HS programming, why do you need to shell out 30,000 a year to learn more about CS when you're already qualified to dive right into the business? And besides, you'd probably learn more working than sitting at a lecture hall anyway

Anyways Duke, what school do you go to? I go to school up in Boston as well, majoring in Computer/Electrical (Basically the same thing ) Engineering and trying my best to get a 2nd major in Econ/Finance. And yeah, barring the traffic problems (even though they finished the Big Dig) and the pretty crappy weather patterns, Boston is the place to be.
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post #42 of 63
7/22/04 at 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeShark
wow, where do I start. I work in a software development company based in california, not huge but well over 300 employees. there is only 1 programmer in my office with a 4 year degree in CS. We've both been employed for the same amount of time, and I make more money. The other programmers have the approximate same salary. That probably has more to do with my other functions than the degree holder, but the point is made.

Electrical Engineering is a different ballgame, and I'll defer to you on the value of the degree - I was speaking solely on breaking into the computer business as a programmer, or hardware person, or even Quality Assurance.

You're right, some companies won't even consider you without a degree - which is garbage. I would much prefer a programmer with 4 years of real world experience over a degree-holder fresh out of college. I've hired a few based on their experience alone. College teaches how to program, technically. Experience teaches not just how to program, but how to overcome problems, work with customers, understand RFPs, etc.

When you're in high school and college, people are continually telling you how you have to have a degree to get anywhere, and for my part, I would tell my son the same thing. It's MUCH easier if you have a degree. But it's hardly a requirement. Do you really need 2 years of Psychology, Philosophy, Sociology, Biology and electives to fill out your core, when all the knowledge you really need you get in the last 2 years of your degree program? A good technical school (very hard to find the good ones) will teach you what you need in 18 months, and then you have a few years of business experience under your belt instead of a bunch of worthless classes.

Starting salaries will be more for degree holders, for sure. But 5 years into the business, you'll see how everything evens out. And with the economy today, the higher salaried programmers are the first to go. I've seen it.

I guess what it boils down to, is, what are you trying to do with your career? That will decide if you really need a degree or not.

p.s. boston is one of the best cities to live in, bar none. i was born and lived near hudson for years, and weekend trips into boston were the highlight of my young life.
I like Salt Lake as well. Very nice city with great food! My friends and I took a road trip out there. Were you born near Hudson NH? or MA? And you're right, there is nothing like going into Bean Town on a fri night...you should see the central artery now!! almost completely submerged and they tore down all that green ugly iron... parks are replacing the highway and in 2007 (the year i graduate) the city is going to be unbelievable!

That is what is so awesome about my program. My school has the best co-op program in the country - rated number 1. When companies see that, they automatically want to hire you. When I graduate, i am going to have 1.5 years experience. But you’re right. It does boil down to , what you want to do, and where you want to live. So I guess I have a better understanding about experience vs a standard degrees.
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post #43 of 63
7/22/04 at 1:00pm
born in Marlborough, lived in Hudson Mass, grandmother still there. Used to go in with her to the farmer's market every week. Just an awesome city, best in New England.
Salt Lake is pretty but hotter than hell. Perfect skiing, though.

I do like the co-op style programs, they get you ready for real world work and companies can see your qualifications.
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post #44 of 63
7/22/04 at 1:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinistand

Anyways Duke, what school do you go to? I go to school up in Boston as well, majoring in Computer/Electrical (Basically the same thing ) Engineering and trying my best to get a 2nd major in Econ/Finance. And yeah, barring the traffic problems (even though they finished the Big Dig) and the pretty crappy weather patterns, Boston is the place to be.
Northeastern University; middler year currently on co-op…at a company that…builds missiles…hehe
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post #45 of 63
7/22/04 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeShark
born in Marlborough, lived in Hudson Mass,

.


Haha! I'm worknig in Marlborough at this very moment.
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post #46 of 63
7/22/04 at 1:08pm
Ah, alright. So you're right down in the middle of the city. I'm up in Medford at Tufts (Great engineering school eh? )

Going into my 3rd year there and currently working an IT internship for a french cosmetics company
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post #47 of 63
7/22/04 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinistand
Ah, alright. So you're right down in the middle of the city. I'm up in Medford at Tufts (Great engineering school eh? )

Going into my 3rd year there and currently working an IT internship for a french cosmetics company
Hey! Any job is a good job at this time of the economy. You're in the same year as me. Where'd you got to HS?
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post #48 of 63
7/22/04 at 1:55pm
I actually live in New Jersey and was out of Westfield High.

But yeah, any job is a good job
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post #49 of 63
7/22/04 at 3:22pm
First learn to type properly
Second: read lots of books
Third: Hope your school offer classes
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post #50 of 63
7/22/04 at 4:00pm
There are lots of successful folks out there without college, but the fact is, without it, you'll be playing "catchup" with limited options.

In addition to the actual stuff you learn there, having a college degree tells your prospective employer that you have the ability to set your mind to a large task, and have the follow-through to accomplish it.

Plus... I hate to say it, but employers with degrees will preferentially hire other people with degrees. You'll also note that it tends to be the people without degrees who are first to claim that they don't matter.

So... finish college. It might not help (though it probably will), but it sure as hell won't hurt.
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post #51 of 63
7/22/04 at 4:13pm
lol and it's the people with degrees that say they do matter.

We all agree that having a college degree is better than not having one, and will help you in the long run. Even we dummies with no degree who have become successful on a fluke want our kids to go to college.
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post #52 of 63
7/22/04 at 4:22pm
Speaking of computer jobs I may ahve jsut found a new one.
I was talking on some local boards with a guy who is head of the PC trainging for a Loacl Cell phone \ internet provider. He told me to email this guy if I was interested in a Job and to make sure I attached his name to the email. So I did I wonder where this may lead. (TO MORE MONEY I HOPE!!!!!)
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post #53 of 63
7/22/04 at 4:29pm
Quote:
lol and it's the people with degrees that say they do matter.
Exactly. You're never going to be discriminated against with one.

Quote:
Even we dummies with no degree who have become successful on a fluke want our kids to go to college.
Don't misinterpret. I think neither. Hard work, intelligence and luck will always be the biggest factors. But... it does show a bit of an inferiority complex, even if it's not justified.
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post #54 of 63
7/22/04 at 4:42pm
i was just kidding with you, it's been years since anyone cared if I had a degree or not. You can't ever go wrong with having every possible advantage, like a degree.

A short 15 years in business has shown me that the real advantage in business is drive and determination, not paper. Just an observation from the real world for kids to consider.
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post #55 of 63
7/22/04 at 4:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeShark
i was just kidding with you, it's been years since anyone cared if I had a degree or not. You can't ever go wrong with having every possible advantage, like a degree.

A short 15 years in business has shown me that the real advantage in business is drive and determination, not paper. Just an observation from the real world for kids to consider.
Yhea I guess I figured this out realy on wich is why I only went for the 2 year degree i figured with that and 2years experience I could get into a company that will pay for the rest of my eduaction if they realy want me to have it. I have only been in the workin g world a short time. But what I have seen to be most efective is sheer knowlege and integrity over paper everytime.
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post #56 of 63
7/22/04 at 5:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukefrukem
Esp. if a school has a co-op program (like mine (which i am on)) Give me an example and I'll believe you.
Whats a co-op program?
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post #57 of 63
7/22/04 at 6:37pm
Quote:
A short 15 years in business has shown me that the real advantage in business is drive and determination, not paper. Just an observation from the real world for kids to consider.
No argument.

Quote:
Yhea I guess I figured this out realy on wich is why I only went for the 2 year degree i figured with that and 2years experience I could get into a company that will pay for the rest of my eduaction if they realy want me to have it.
That's a very good idea. We have a guy working for us as a principal technician. We hired him with two years of an EE degree. Now he works design for us (in our new robotics division) while finishing school. He makes $60K a year, full medical/dental, 12 vacation days a year, 100% tuition reimbursement, plus his in-school time is deducted from his work week (we pay him to sit in class!).
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post #58 of 63
7/22/04 at 11:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jumpthru
Whats a co-op program?
"Through co-op, students alternate between semesters of learning in the classroom and semesters of learning in the workplace. The co-op work experiences are full-time, connected to the student's major and/or personal interests, and almost always paid. Co-op students test their skills in a variety of environments while undergraduates. They discover what they like and don't like, and understand the rich connections between theory and practice. Each learning experience informs the next. "

So my first year i was taking classes for two semesters. My soph year i took classes for two semesters. And the next year, which is called a "middler year" starts right after you finish up classes and it is an 8 month work period. In january I will go back to school for 6 months, then in june of 05 i will work again for 6 months. Then I finish up my classes. When you graduate, you pretty much already have a job lined up and the co-op helps pay for school. You also do not have to look for a job, the school finds one for you. It is pretty kick ass.
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post #59 of 63
7/23/04 at 1:38am
Thats pretty rad. I remember when I had my descision down to two schools one of them mentioned they had a co-op type program...too bad I didn't choose that one. I hope the one I did choose has a good co-op/intern program!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukefrukem
"Through co-op, students alternate between semesters of learning in the classroom and semesters of learning in the workplace. The co-op work experiences are full-time, connected to the student's major and/or personal interests, and almost always paid. Co-op students test their skills in a variety of environments while undergraduates. They discover what they like and don't like, and understand the rich connections between theory and practice. Each learning experience informs the next. "

So my first year i was taking classes for two semesters. My soph year i took classes for two semesters. And the next year, which is called a "middler year" starts right after you finish up classes and it is an 8 month work period. In january I will go back to school for 6 months, then in june of 05 i will work again for 6 months. Then I finish up my classes. When you graduate, you pretty much already have a job lined up and the co-op helps pay for school. You also do not have to look for a job, the school finds one for you. It is pretty kick ass.
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post #60 of 63
7/23/04 at 2:32pm
yo just be a nark and go around forums that post music and software and report them to RIAA and say you want money
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