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New 8790 - Are you having issues?

Poll Results: Had to send the 8790 in for repair?

Poll expired: Jul 26, 2004  
  • 18% (5)
    Yes
  • 81% (22)
    No
27 Total Votes  
post #1 of 17
7/21/04 at 9:55pm
Thread Starter 
I have been a programmer/developer for a long, long, long time and and know a great config for a great price when I see one. The 8790 is giving me a "too good to be true" reaction though and I want to ask a couple questions before I make a final decision on my next laptop purchase.

My questions:
1.) What up with the screen flickering/artifact stuff? Since moving to SXGA+ has it been resolved?
2.) I'm thinking of getting the Prescott CPU (1mb L2 Cache) instead of the Northwood (512k L2 Cache). I've been told that the Prescott will run hotter and eat battery time which don't concern me. Anyone experiencing blue screen of death or abrupt shutdown/turnoff with the Prescott or the 8790 in general? I don't give a wip about fan noise, battery time or alittle extra heat unless I gotta send it in for a fix.
3.) Anyone using the 8790 for .net development, C++, VB etc.? If so, Waddaya think of it?

Working through software/driver issues doesn't scare me but I get paid by the hour and having to send in for repairs may cost me big. I do some pretty intensive compiles/builds (and gaming) and I don't need corruption issues - So my overall question is how many of you are having to ship the 8790 back for repair?

Any advice would be appreciated - Thanks!
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post #2 of 17
7/21/04 at 10:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenBrower
I have been a programmer/developer for a long, long, long time and and know a great config for a great price when I see one. The 8790 is giving me a "too good to be true" reaction though and I want to ask a couple questions before I make a final decision on my next laptop purchase.

My questions:
1.) What up with the screen flickering/artifact stuff? Since moving to SXGA+ has it been resolved?
2.) I'm thinking of getting the Prescott CPU (1mb L2 Cache) instead of the Northwood (512k L2 Cache). I've been told that the Prescott will run hotter and eat battery time which don't concern me. Anyone experiencing blue screen of death or abrupt shutdown/turnoff with the Prescott or the 8790 in general? I don't give a wip about fan noise, battery time or alittle extra heat unless I gotta send it in for a fix.
3.) Anyone using the 8790 for .net development, C++, VB etc.? If so, Waddaya think of it?

Working through software/driver issues doesn't scare me but I get paid by the hour and having to send in for repairs may cost me big. I do some pretty intensive compiles/builds (and gaming) and I don't need corruption issues - So my overall question is how many of you are having to ship the 8790 back for repair?

Any advice would be appreciated - Thanks!
Well Ben, A long time is starting in 1969 or before (in my book). Immediate repairs for the Sager is not going to happen - you will need to send it in and then wait for it to be repaired. I do some COBOL development and compiles and the unit work rather well. I question your desire to purchase a prescott and really suggest you search the WWW (google) on this CPU to see what it's strengths and weaknesses are before opting to purchase one. The screen anomilities that you indicate are limited to a few machines - bot the WSXGA+ and WSXA+ configurations. I have not had any of these type problems on the two units that I have owned (First unit was returned for a heat/fan issue - Serial number 50).

The 8790 is not "too good to be true". You will pay to play on this monster; however, the price is within reason. Can't say that a $3k pricetag is "cheap".

My 2nd machine has not exhibited any reason for me to send it back for repair or anything else.
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post #3 of 17
7/22/04 at 12:28am
I am using my computer to design web applications in C# under .Net. VS.Net runs well and I have not had to worry about speed. I have the v1 screen, which is the non-glossy one that only goes up to 1440x900. I want to send the thing in and get the new screen so I have more room to see more code.

Though .Net does not seem to support connections completely, you can easily have Oracle installed on the computer to test .Net application connectivity. I can't even tell Oracle is running in the background because the computer is that fast. It also creates a new Oracle database faster than any other computer I have seen. The reason I said .Net doesn't seem to support Oracle is because there is one file that .Net always throws an exception on (I forgot what it was). I looked around online and other people have come across that exception and apparantly, there's nothing that can be done about it right now. I hope .Net v2 clears that up.

If you want to know anything more, just ask. I'm very adept with stuff like this. Now, I do have a flickering screen, but lowering the brightness by one notch prevents it from flickering. I won't send it in until I get around to getting that new screen. I have had router problems (see another thread, "new 8790 is great, but router is not") for details.
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post #4 of 17
7/22/04 at 1:22am
Ok let's start with I do .Net developement on my Sager 8790. Getting the Prescott would be a big mistake. Go Northwood, no need to go extreme since your not gaming. Any laptop you get for developement, when needing repair will not be a quick turn around. If that is a concern get a nice desktop.
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post #5 of 17
7/22/04 at 2:10am
I agree with Freejack. The Prescott just doesn't seem to help things if you only do development. I think if you do anything involving imaging or intense calculations, a Prescott would help. Please note that I personally don't use my laptop just for development. Oh, no...

If you are concerned about turnaround, I don't think there's a fast repair solution. Or you could just have other systems you can use for the nonce. I have the other two computers, listed in my signature line, I could use if I wanted to return this one. I do not because fixing the problem is not worth the effort and long wait involved. I've had bad experiences with being on the receiving end of warranty repairs, and Sager replacing my wireless router with one that was broken when I received it just does not help convince me to trust them. I may get the thing back with a few crumbs of chocolate on the keys like with another warranty repair I had done...
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post #6 of 17
7/22/04 at 10:18am
I think I forgot to mention I game on this too. I just did a 24hr Lan this past Saturday and had no problems. 3.4GHZ CPU and 256mb video make the Northwood run well.
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post #7 of 17
7/23/04 at 12:27pm
Thread Starter 
G-Omaha - 1969 is a bit further back than I go but I cut my teeth on card readers, cobol, and removeable disk packs when they were still common. I still do cobol, rpg, jcl, cl occassionally, as well as the newer stuff and love a good 4GL/5GL. I would have to say I am a "fool for the tool" as well. I have read many of your posts and appreciate the depth and the detail. I would do it the same way and may given the opportunity. By the way thanks for the heads up on the Prescott vs. the Northwood CPU - I did the investigation work - I'll be going Northwood.

DO YOU THINK STAYING AT THE LOW END 3.0 ghz WILL REDUCE THE HEAT A TAD?

I have owned a Pro-star 8500 for about 4 years now and I have worked it like dog and it keeps on ticking. I expect to run into some similar contructs with the 8790 such as needing a sherpa to carry it, having my right wrist sizzle a bit when typing (from the heat), and occassionally hearing something that sounds like a plane taking off when I stress it. I also expect it to be as stable and powerfull as the 8500 was. If the 8790 has the power, and the bells and whistles without the dependability it is a waste. These are the reasons I posted my inquiry and why I am not scared off by heat, weight and some noise. Most desktop replacement lappys have a common theme - HEAT - it seems to me that they have gone as far as they can and are approaching instability. I have recently watched a new Dell require a fan cleaning after being owned for a few weeks because it could no longer displace the heat and kept shutting down. So this heat thing is not something specific to Clevo/Sager/Pro-star. Which brings me to my next topic.......

I have never had a dead pixel in the 8 laptops I have owned. I have never done an RMA. I have never had a "serious" heat problem. I have never, as a almost common, suggested course of action, opened it to undue something the original manufacturer has done upon arrival. This seems almost pathetic to me in terms of what a consumer should expect. Pathetic because the consumer stands for it and pathetic because the manufacturer knows about it and does little to correct it.

Like most in the computer field I am often asked to recommend a computer. To the uninitiated I recommend DELL because I don't want someone calling me every 5 minutes. Sure they may have to hang on the phone a few days but it won't be mine - LOL. To the experienced user who can work through their own problems I recommend Sager and Pro-star cause I think you get the best stuff at the best price.

So here is what I have learned so far......
- There is a good chance I will enjoy the 8790 the same as I did the 8500P
- If your gonna buy a Sager you buy it from PC Torque (I found this to be a smart move from lurking on some other sites as well).
- If/When I buy the 8790 I will put it through a myriad of tests and stress it to the extreme within the first week to uncover anything not up to snuff. You only have 30 days from the day you order right?

I'd like to thank those who have repsonded to my inquiry so far. Its really refreshing to see the open and honest responses that this forum affords everyone.

TO PC TORQUE - YOU ARE APPRECIATED FOR THIS FORUM AND FOR BACKING UP THOSE WHO PURCHASE FROM YOU. Thanks!
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post #8 of 17
7/23/04 at 3:37pm
IMHO - you will not see much temp difference with the 3.0 as compared to the 3.4. I have downclocked my 8790 3.4Ghz processor to 1,707.44 and am now evaluating the heat, fan usage, and battery life. So far it's only been running on batteries for about 12 minutes so it is really too early to tell. I have not see any diferences in temps; however, the fan usage is a tad less. The left wrist pad also seems to be cooler - or it's because, the unit has not been running for very long.

I also remember the Cards and Mylar tape. Used have a punch and "chicken plucker" to null out offending rows and/or correct mispunches in source and object decks.

I suspect the 8790 will be a workhorse that will fit your needs nicely. I'm expecting 4+ years from this monister and I am trying to get all of the Microfocus "stuff" installed under XP so that I will have a portable MVS Mainframe for testing the COBOL and BAL programs under development.
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post #9 of 17
7/23/04 at 5:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenBrower
1.) What up with the screen flickering/artifact stuff? Since moving to SXGA+ has it been resolved?
I've had no real problems. I've seen some flickering of some objects (lights, mostly) in Halo, but I think that's just Halo. No problems with Far Cry (not that I've played it, much). Crossing my fingers that I'll have no problems with the real test: Doom 3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenBrower
3.) Anyone using the 8790 for .net development, C++, VB etc.? If so, Waddaya think of it?
Yes. Love it. I'm working on a multimedia management app in C#. My only concern is that my performance is so stellar, I won't have any idea what the real users are going to see until after they see it.
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post #10 of 17
7/25/04 at 12:45pm
Thread Starter 
G-O et all,
When I mentioned that the 8790 config and price were great some of you did not agree about the price so I did even more research. No matter what manufacturer or VAR I reviewed it was always the same:
- Same config was "at least" $200 more.
- 8790 config not even available (Usually couldn't get the 256mb ATI Mobility 9700 Radeon OR the 17" screen with at least SXGA+) and the price was near the same or higher). Some configs had WUXGA and 17" but did not offer 256mb ATI Mobility 9700 Radeon.
CONCLUSION: I stand corrected! The config is still the best but the price is not "great" - it is simply "better than average". How about that as a compromise in perception?

NEXT QUESTION:
- Some of you think the 256mb ATI Mobility 9700 Radeon is one of the last bottleknecks on the beast. Can the 8790 be upgraded to the 9800 Radeon when it comes out? If so do you think with the additional pipes on the 9800 there will be an increase or decrease the heat? My guess is that it will be about the same.

G-O - How is the portable MVS set up going?
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post #11 of 17
7/25/04 at 1:47pm
It uses the PROX-MVS engine that I believe was originally developed by Sterling Software a few years back. Not really an MVS; however, it uses JCL, Proc, and Mainframe constraints - including EBDIC chracter set. Sort, IEBGENER, etc...
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post #12 of 17
7/25/04 at 10:06pm
Thread Starter 
Ok. Did the search. Can't upgrade to the 9800 without replacing the motherboard. What to do, what to do? Same ol' question. Wait till the 9800 is available or buy now? I know, in one shape or another this question never goes away.
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post #13 of 17
7/25/04 at 10:17pm
If you, at the present time, don't "need" a new laptop, my recommendation is that you wait until mid/late August or later. There may be some updates available at that time or within a few months of that (year end). Unfortunately, there is always something new "lurking" on the horizon that complicates all buy decisions.
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post #14 of 17
7/26/04 at 12:34pm
Thread Starter 
G-O,
I was thinking the same thing. I don't "need" a new laptop - I just "want" one. I don't wanna have to wait but I will.

Typically I buy the high end of a desktop or laptop and don't give too much thought to whether I should wait for the next great widget cause there always is one. For example, right now I wouldn't wait for 64 bit. BUT having said that.................

I think I will wait for the Radeon 9800 - gotta have the 8 pipes! Hoping to drop the hammer, like you said, around the end of August/September.

Sure hope Clevo/Sager don't make me wait too long.
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post #15 of 17
7/26/04 at 9:10pm
G, what are you using to underclock?

And does anyone know of a good "hotkey" type of progam that will toggle underclocking/overclocking the GPU and CPU at the same time?
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post #16 of 17
7/26/04 at 9:57pm
Right now nothing. I did employ Clockgen for a short while. I had a post regarding this in the General Section of this forum.
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post #17 of 17
7/27/04 at 1:45am

Prescott versus Northwood

I spend many hours researching the two different processors and finally decided upon the Prescott. My reasons for this were that I do not care about battery life although I still get around 40 minutes which seems about average for the 8790, and that I do a large amount of DivX conversion from DVD's. The prescott and northwood run about the same for most games although the Northwood has a slight edge but not much, but the Prescott greatly beats the Northwood in video encoding. Also the Prescott has updated Hyper-threading technology and more and more applications are being developed to utilise the hyper-threading. I have not run any monitors for temperatures yet but have not faced any blue screen of deaths but also have not pushed the computer into the highest setting for the fans because currently only gaming is Wolfenstein ET. Search for comparisons between the two and decide for yourself.
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