NotebookForums.com › Forums › Notebook Manufacturers › Dell Forums › Dell Notebook Reviews › i86 Heat Mod Complete :) Bench
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

i86 Heat Mod Complete :) Bench - Page 3

post #41 of 105
Thats pretty much what I was trying to get at for right now

I'll post my second half tomorrow

... TI 89 Titanium Edition?
post #42 of 105
Thread Starter 
Ya! Nice Job!

Although it's 119 after rebates and all at Circuit City
post #43 of 105
Goddam cheapskates at Dell!!! 10mm more of copper pipe and this wouldn't even be a discussion If anyone has the fabrication skills, the solution to this problem would surely be to extend the heat pipe so that it can also touch the heat spreader from the VRAM and thus give it an outlet of lower potential energy also. Come to think of it, would it not be possible to cut the VRAM spreader with a small finger that does in fact contact the heat pipe directly??? I will leave you Physicists to work out the possibilities and consequences here
post #44 of 105
Thread Starter 
lol, I say we create a mini particle accelerator around the heat pipe and see what happens

But in all seriousness, the heat mod I preformed is overly adequate for our needs. Extending the heat pipe is something that Dell could have been a bit nicer to the folks who've got stock systems (I wanted to see the banana man...heh)
post #45 of 105
I'm still trying to get more data at the moment. My notebook looks like it's from the matrix with all these thermistor probes hanging out

...
Possible Temp Probe Mod?
(Integrate an LCD into the left hinge for temp read?)
....

Anyways, after class tomorrow I’ll post my idea for placing GM's moded copper plate differently and consider the use of aluminum instead of copper. The possibility of modifying the GPU heat pipe should also be explored, but that could turn out to be a whole other tweak.

GM has an excellent mod, but I believe it has much more potential in allowing less correlation between the gpu temp and ram temp.
post #46 of 105
Not sure if this has been discussed but what about a cooling mod for what lookslike a 3rd processor unit underneath the graphics card?

When you completely remove the Graphics card, on the bottom there is another thermal pad that attaches to fan that is used for the Graphics Card... has anyone attached a copper plate to this component (i don't know what it is)?

I figure might as well go for it since it's very similar to the GPU & CPU. There is a dye/core of the processor to transfer heat and copper is certainly a much better conductor than the thermal pad. Which leads me to the question posed about the VRAM receiving more heat from the GPU because of improved conductivity via the copper plates. In theory, this is true, providing copper plates gives a better path for the heat to travel back to the VRAM and could heat up the VRAM more than before, but it seems to be less significant compared to the improved conductivity provided by the copper. Which is better, to have the thermal pads in place and the GPU and VRAM have a poor conductor for transferring heat away from them to the heatsink/fan combo... or to have solid copper plates to transfer the heat away from the GPU & VRAM to the heatsink / fan? Granted, the fan is weak and arguably may not provide much heat removal, but at least the the copper plates give it more heat to work with.

And by heat diffusion and assuming that the heat does transfer back to the VRAM and heat up the VRAM, i'm fairly sure that when the GPU & VRAM as a combo reach a stabilizing running temperature (let's say gaming for several hours and the heatsink / GPU / VRAM are maxed out and are relying on heat to dissipate via the fan mostly hopefully), the VRAM and GPU will be much lower in temperature with the copper plates than with the thermal pads. So my conclusion is copper plates for the VRAM is better than the Thermal Pads. Any and all copper plates are better than the thermal pads. even if you were to install only copper on the VRAM, it still would be better even if your theory of heat transferring from the GPU to the VRAM is correct because my assumption is the more heat sinks you provide, the better... which leads me to my next discussion...

Malone and Evo were discussing making the plate bigger so it touches the heat pipe

http://notebookforums.com/showthread...&page=29&pp=15

which is what i want to do. Actually, I want to make the copper plates as large as possible because the bigger heat sink you provide, the more heat you can remove from the GPU / VRAM / CPU / and whatever that third chip is under the graphics card. However, there are resistors, capacitors, jumpers, etc...(i have no idea) that are on top of the GPU where the copper plate is placed. Ideally, I would make the copper plate as big as possible and connect it directly to the heatsink but i'm worried it may short these components on top of the GPU...

ANybody know what these tiny buggers are on top of the GPU and if metal running across them will short them? I'm guessing they won't short since Malone and Evo have not mentioned any problems. Malone... Evo ??

back to my more heat sink the better theory, for the CPU i'm gonna try to cut a single piece of copper that runs along the heat sink and try to contact it with fins similar to the original heat sink. I may even throw a few layers extra along that curved heat sink to beef it up even more cuz The more heat sink (copper preferably) the better ...
post #47 of 105
That is the motherboard's chipset underneith the GPU card. And about the copper touching the heat pipe, there are a few diodes/transistors/whatever they are next to the core. We had troubles with the copper pushing down too hard on thoes diodes (or whatever) and the card would not work.
post #48 of 105
Thread Starter 
Thanks aero and yes, because of the proximity of the Intel Chipset to the GPU, there is no metal sheet thin enough to be effective but not close the circuit of the chipset. (It's have to be a copper foil and the effectiveness would be almost close to none)

~GMCloud
Gl on your extension mod, although I find no use for this since the card is already adequately cooled but guess it's worth a shot let us know how it turned out.
post #49 of 105
Ok - so it's not a good idea to place copper close to those components on the GPU. That makes sense it's the motherboard's chipset... might as well add copper to that while we're at it.

Has anyone placed a thicker piece of copper - let's say 3 x 3 x 3 ? to elevate the heat sink unit higher than normal away from the gpu ? The reason i want to do this is so i can put more pieces of copper connecting the GPU to the heatsink and to provide more metal to be used as a heatsink.

Also, for those of you who have read / performed the keyboard fix for the flex written by Spike... increasing the width of the copper plate from 1.5 to 3 or 4, may help reduce the flex for the keyboard... so it may kill two birds with one stone type of thing

i'm studying this possibility and anybody have any ideas / thoughts / suggestion on why this may be bad?

BTW - Sweet job on the Tutorial - that acrobat reader format is really slick. Gonna have to learn how to do that... do you use acrobat reader or do you have to purchase an editor / format Acrobat software to do that?
post #50 of 105
Thread Starter 
EDIDT: Well you just don't want to put too much pressure on any chip in general. The GPU screws down on top of the chipset and the clearance between the two is close to none so you'll have a heck of a hard time trying not to kill the chip

Hopefully I got this right but you want to thicken the thickness to 3mm? or 3cm? Either way, you'd have one heck of a lot of time trying to boot up. In my guide, (Page 1 of modding i86) the largest part I stress is NOT to overtighten the screws. 1.5mm is thick enough and the casing is so lightly screwed on, there's no possibility of putting any thicker of a copper on. (You'll have to remove the entire casing and just have it sit on the gpu core, which would be very interesting to see

Thanks btw also on the Acobat document. Yes you'll need Adobe Acrobat 6 Professional before you are able to convert to a pdf. (There are other programs that can do it but I've loved Adobe's integration into Office)

~GMCloud
post #51 of 105
ya - i think overtightening of the screws either puts too much stress on the gpu or it puts the casing to close to the those tiny components on top of the GPU and shorts them. If you were to place a thicker piece, let's say 3 mm to 4 mm instead of 1.5 mm, then it would elevate the casing further from the GPU but provide more heatsink. and if the screws don't reach, then you can just get longer screws. Then, as long as you don't overtighten and place unneeded strain on the GPU but enough to keep the copper snug against the GPU, i really don't see any probs with making it thicker.

Also, did anybody place copper on the motherboard chipset? Not sure what you meant by saying closing the circuit on the chipset.
post #52 of 105
Thread Starter 
Royceee,
Please don't forget we have a keyboard here, heh. Any thicker once again on the GPU piece and you hit the keyboard again making it not possible to up the thickness.

As for the motherboard chipset, the video card is RIGHT above the intel chipset. If you were to place a piece of copper between the two, it'd have to be THIN because too much pressure on ANY chip will usually cause a short and your system fails. If you add a thicker piece of copper say, you'd have to raise the video card itself. By doing that you then do not want to go too high as it will hit the keyboard, which is nearly right above the casing. (About a millimeter)

Hope this helps!

~GMCloud
post #53 of 105
Yeah - the keyboard is right above it but there is about 3mm of rrom to work with, hence Spike's Keyboard Flex mod... so i think making it thicker may help out with the keyboard flex... the only other concern IMO is the fins attached to the fan, as those will be elevated also.

For the Intel chipset, there is a thermal pad used for it. Couldn't you replace this with copper also, just like the CPU / GPU / VRAM ?

Ok, I see how it may be difficult because you can't really adjust the height / tightening of the video card on to the top of the Intel MOBO Chipset cuz the only attachment is the video card pin connections...so the piece of copper would have to be an accurate thickness ...

anyway, i'm gonna do it - will let you know how it goes...and how much it cost me for a new Intel 855PM Chipset...
post #54 of 105
Thread Starter 
Please keep in mind, the thermal pad forms with the chip, metal does not. I'll look forward to seeing what happens.

~GMCloud
post #55 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by royceee
Yeah - the keyboard is right above it but there is about 3mm of rrom to work with, hence Spike's Keyboard Flex mod... so i think making it thicker may help out with the keyboard flex...
When you use your keyboard, you are exerting a force to push the keys down. Your keyboard will absorb some of that excess force (flexing) but the rest will be transferred to your heat sink if there is no room between your keyboard.

Do you really want to be pushing down on your any important component in your computer when you type? Even if the force is minimal it can add up over time.

A keyboard pushing down on a GPU, VRAM, Motherboard, anything, is not something to take lightly at all.
post #56 of 105
First, let me start by saying that Dell, Nvidia, ATI, etc., build there mobile components to withstand high temperatures (inherent to all notebooks) so it is not like any component is in danger of over heating. GM's cooling method works, this is not my argument.


From the data I have gathered using a Cooling-Modified Geforce FX5650, my GPU is on average about 30.21 to 47.46 C above (depending on load) the ambient room temperature. Currently, the V.RAM is almost always at a slightly lower temperature then the GPU. This type of RAM normally does not run this hot, even under heavy loads. As stated in my previously, I do not believe this heat is not from the V.RAM. Instead it is my belief that the V.RAM could be running (much closer to the ambient system temperature) around 12 to 25+ degrees cooler then it already is. This would allow for a higher V.RAM clock setting.

I still need to run more test to collect more data. Like I said, this is my hypothesis. Not Fact.

From all the calculations I've made thus far, I am confident that the GPU heat sink should not be attached to the V.RAM in any way shape or form, and each component should possess its own separate heat sink. This should stop most of the heat leakage coming from the GPU. I am under the impression that a simple and efficiently placed heat spreader on the RAM chips should be sufficient.

--------------------------

I got my GPU heat pipe precision cut this morning, removing the “L” shaped part of the GPU heat sink.

* Reference Figure: Cut-Heat-Pipe-GPU.JPG


I am going to buy one of GM’s copper RAM spacers and try to use it as a stand alone heat spread for the V.RAM. I am also going to see if I can get an aluminum one made and test that as well. (Aluminum may be less susceptible then copper to any heat radiating from the GPU via Air.)
post #57 of 105
Thread Starter 
Wow now THAT's a mod and I agree with you on the keyboard question.

So now we need to generate a new hypothesis to keep our brains working.

Thank you for purchasing the copper plate and it will ship out on saturday via USPS Priority Mail with Delivery Confirmation. (The parts are being made tomorrow and by the time I get them, pick up my new laser printer , and then ship it, it'll end up being on saturday. I do hope this is alright with you.

Thanks again,
~GMCloud

(I'm gradually learning PayPal's merchant program and trying to get the most automated checkout I can for smoothed transaction time)
post #58 of 105
My Next Thought:Modified Inspiron 8500 Bios (Possibly other models as well?)

The Bios would provide dramatic improvements if it were able to be modified. That is, be able to change RAM timings, Bus speed, etc. While extreme over clocking may not be possible at this time due to heating issues, it will allow for system settings to be fine tuned. I know for a fact this will boost performance more then any heating mod. But don’t get me wrong, heating mods will compliment a modified (tweaked) bios perfectly. I'm not to sure it can be done via software (bios/vhdl?) though. This can still be achieved via physical motherboard modifications if a software solution is not found. (EDIT: NM, Legal Issues prevent software hacking.)I will start a thread on this very soon. I still have a few more ideas I want to pursue to exploit my video card to its maximum limits , and I’m still working on my V.RAM cooling idea.

If anyone else is knowledge in these areas and wants to contribute that would help greatly.

I’m not sure how much work is involved with this hence the reason it's a THOUGHT. School has first priorities.
post #59 of 105
sorry for getting into this thread so late. DO NOT PUT MORE THAN 1.5mm COPPER IN THE GPU!!! It will put way too much pressure on the die. Evo experienced a similar problem firsthand, he screwed in the cover too tight and the video card had no output. Pressure is not your friend in this case. If you really want to be extreme, you could cut a square out of the casing and that would allow you to add more copper. Make a 3cmx3cmx2mm piece, and cut a 3.5mmx3.5mm square where it the thermal pad used to be. You can add copper to the outside as wide as you want, and then use the 3x3 piece to connect from the outside directly to the core. Loctite helps. I'll try to explain better if you do not understand. Realize that this will make your keyboard a tad warm, possibly melting it. I have no idea what could happen. Why did i post this. I am tired. So, i better stop writing, i'm going OT. *whistles*
post #60 of 105
if you're saying heat mod= keyboard meltage.. you're going to lose a lot of people that want to do this
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Dell Notebook Reviews
NotebookForums.com › Forums › Notebook Manufacturers › Dell Forums › Dell Notebook Reviews › i86 Heat Mod Complete :) Bench