Intel Laptop vs Apple PowerBook - Page 2

So true .

I never knew that about Apple adapters! You learn something new every day . Just interested, what laptop is that power brick for?

I am not a mac hater, i just favor PCs over macs. I am not "all cool with windowz" because of all the spyware, viruses and constant crashes (although not lately for me on Win2k). I tried LINUX and unless all your hardware is totaly LINUX FRIENDLY and you have an extra $90 to spend on Win4Lin 5.0 (or if you are not too lazy to play with WINE) there is no way you can get it to work right. Don't get me wrong, I like linux (if it wasn't so hard to get working with ALL my hardware) so that would probably say that i should be fine with OSX seeing that it is a more distant cousin of a GNU/LINUX distro in a way. I know there is a more "linuxy" linux for Apple, YellowDog Linux (doesn't work with WINE as of right now, so Win4Lin is your only windows emu choice). So that would really cancel out many of the OS problems, it bring this war down to hardware, when it comes to best benches for the lowest sticker, the PC market is way ahead of apple. And of course there are other hardware glitches in apple (i am not saying that pc hardware doesn't have any, you just have more choice to pick the one that doesn't bother you). For example, there is the sh*tty keyboard on the G3 and G4 iBooks as well as touchpad that wound't know you are touching it even if you hammer at it. In the desktop sector there are those "pro mouse" and keyboard things, they are clear and white. So it just sits there, collecting dust, how long can it stay white i wonder? And in a modern world, you try to design a comfortable office and there you have this ugly white spot, looks more like a mental hospital than an office now. And finaly, lets get to the marketing strategies, Apple markets their systems as "crashproof" and i say, "what a load of crap!" give me 5 minutes with any apple and it will be frozen solid like a poopsicle.

Here is their standard student discount. Just select your school.

Apple edu discount

There is also a student developer discount, this is includes software for a year:

Studendt developer

Why just not save your money, buy Centrino-based machine and install a LINUX distro on it?

Yes, it's simple to play any codec you could on windows--mplayer is the best, it has all the codecs built in.

http://mplayerosx.sourceforge.net/

For discounts, take a look at refurbished units from Apple online and smalldog.com, and since you're a student you can get pretty nice discounts on stuff, both online and from the Apple retail store if you live near one.

For example, smalldog has a refurbished 12" Powerbook with superdrive for $1379 right now. They also have some older refurbished 15" Powerbooks for $1349.

Before I say anything let me say that I have a great bias against macs. I can't explain it, but the way Apple carries themselves just pisses me off.

Anyways, I'll talk about my laptop setup.

Right now, I have winXP pro, and Gentoo Linux set up in a dual boot.
I use Linux for just about anything. Their software (free) base is amazing. There are a few things lacking, still, so that's where winXP comes in.
For example, drivers for my wireless card haven't been developed yet (there's an open source movement to make one, but I don't think its done). And until I get Wine up, there's a few programs I like to use on the XP side (macromedia flash, etc.). Also, XP is there for my friends who don't know how to use Linux.
I find this setup is great. A zone to develop and experiment in (Linux) and a safe zone to fall back on if all goes to hell (xp).

Now, if we're talking about a light, non-computer oriented user, then this setup would not be that great. Sadly, I would not recommend this Linux distro to that person. Its a bit complicated and there are more simpler distro's mentioned above (suse? maybe mandrake?). So we're basically down to comparing XP to Mac's OS.

I won't bash Mac OS because I don't use it, and I don't know enough about it to attack it :P (plus I'll probably be horribly biased and unforgiving).

Anyways, As mentioned above, the widespread usage of PC's and windows is its greatest asset. Almost all software you see advertised anywhere is for PC. PC parts are easy to come by (laptops are a bit harder, though, so not sure if this is a valid point). Along with that point, and this is a very important one if the user isn't that great with computers, is that if you want help, its going to be hard with a Mac. I don't mean tech support. I mean from friends who know what they're doing. Not one person on my dorm floor used a mac, nor did anyone I met from class. If a floormate ever asked me to help them with a computer, it was pretty simple to diagnose and fix. But, if it were a mac, I would shrug and not know where to start at all. This would be the same for the rest of my engineering and computer science friends.

As for the rest of the stuff, I can't really compare because I haven't used macs much.

This is not an issue of the OSes, this is purly a hardware issue and bang for the buck.
Let me explain, if you need to run Windows on a MAC you get VirtualPC, if you want to run MAC OS X on Windows you get Pear Emulator, if you want to run Windows on LINUX, you get WINE or VMWARE. In today's world, you can run pretty much any OS on any platform. So you can't argue anymore that X is better than GNU/Linux that is better than M$ Windows. We all know that Compal makes many of the APPLE lappys, and we also know that the CL56 is the forum favorite, also made by that company, so hardware wise, whats the issue? Well...this would narrow down the differances to the CPU (since the GPU in most cases is the ATI 9600 or 9700). So what do you want, a Motorola G4 or Intel Celeron, Intel C-M, Intel P-M, Intel P-4, Intel P4, Intel P4EE, AMD64, AMD Athlon-XP, AMD Athlon-XP M or AMD Duron and as always the Transmeta CPUs.

So lets evaluate:
Transmeta-very good bat. life, not much of a performer.
Celeron- value-priced cpu for those on the budget who don't game.
C-M- cheaper alternative to P-M with slightly worse performance
P-M- Good battery life, little heat, very good main-stream performer.
P4-m- for those who need raw power on the go.
P4- Desktop chip...hot, battery hungry, but gives good raw power
P4EE- very hot, drains the battery as easy as 1,2,3. but very good raw power
Duron- very cheap (and rare in lappys) and is a good choice for those on a tight budget
XP- desktop chip, for gamers on a budget.
XP-M- cant match P-M but is a few $100 cheaper
AMD64- more "mobile" than P4 yet is VERY POWERFUL
---------------and then there is the G4 chip------------------
a happy avarage between the x86 and x86-64 chips

the PC market is capitalism at it's best. APPLE is like hitler. At this rate, the line between macs and pcs is thinning every day. So unless the G4 cpu satisfies your needs (that none of the many pc chips cant) get the MAC.

And yes, there is the question of friend support vs tech support.

I just sold my Powerbook, so I can talk smack about apple once again.

No, but seriously, I like abf's analogy on capitalism vs. communism. Apple is like communism, at least with PC's you have a choice. Although some may not see it as much of a choice, considering there are really only 2 choices, its still a choice.

The day Apple offes components which allow me to pick and choose my MoBo and even chip manufacturers offering different things, so I can customize and then build my OWN computer for a decent price. Will be the day I would consider buying another Apple computer. You are spending entirely too much money if you ever buy an Apple brand new. And charging for every little OS update?? Give me a break. I got X.1 with my laptop and upgraded to Panther right before I sold it. As someone else said above, it required me to actually learn some new things. It changed a lot of the in depth functionality around, even changed some of the command structure so your left wondering, WTF did I do wrong??

I love unix and the command line so I do love OS X, and would love it if they had more games. Although they are coming out with more and more all the time. Still, Apple charges more for a RAM upgrade then should be lawfully aloud. They charge way to much for everything, because they can. And the crowd not only buys everything they release, but praises Steve in the process. Its like buying a Cadillac Escalade IMO, or a Lincoln navigator. You could buy the Expedition with leather, and some of the other options, or the GMC Yukon Denali for around $10,000 less then either of their luxury counterparts, and yet get the EXACT SAME thing.

And then there is software, all the good software for Mac's makes you put out another mortgage on your home. Where as with PC's, there are litterally thousands of Appz out there for you to try and find out what you like, and then buy it later. And always for much less then anything on the mac. Is Final Cut the best, of course, but there are appz out there that come close on the PC, and cost $100 vs $1000 or whatever Final Cut costs. Using another car analogy (I love those) its like buying premium when your manual only says 87 octane, its not going to matter in the long run. Of course I have a high output motor, so my manual says to put premium fuel in, and I do.

The last thing that disgusts me with Mac's is the driver. Like that new BMW M3 your friends friend just bought. Or really anybody I know who drives a BMW like one of my boss' here at work. German engineering is bad @ss, yes, and you do pay for what you get sometimes. But quit it with the elitist, I'm better then you attitude. Most Apple owners just remind me of BMW Drivers. I love the car (powerbooks) but not the people who own them (most of the time).

If I can emulate PC on my mac and MAC on my pc, there is no longer a differance between the platforms, is there? It is all down to the annoying one button mouse, the motorola vs intel and amd, and the other "ugly things about mac".

Technically, you can't really emulate XP on Virtual PC. Try it, even if you haev a gig of RAM, it still runs like sh~t, I haven't seen XP ran on a machine with 2 gig's, but I'm sure it would take at least that to run something optimally. However, you can run 98 or 2000 very well with 1 gig. Also, try running a PC game like FarCry on a Mac emulating XP, I guarentee it would run like crap, unless it has the aforementioned 2 gig minimum.

Also, what exactly are you using to run OS X on a PC? Other then with linux? I think I've seen something for linux that will run OSX on a mac, but it was buggy as he||.

Like I stated earlier, I have nothing against Apple, just their prices and their philosophy as a whole. Besides that, I don't like most of the Apple people that diss PCs because their usually rich elitists. If your not a rich elitist and you love Mac, more power to you. I would never, even in a million years, buy a retail computer. I will always and forever build my own machine and tweak it and OC and have fun with it. I am a geek, and geeks like PC's because you can tweak with it so much. Like I said, the day Apple lets me buy a new HSF for the G5 and BIOS which allows me to OC the hell out of it, build it from the ground up, and so on. I'll buy another Mac.

PS..... That day will never come.

So it was a free upgrade from 95-->98-->ME-->XP? Um, no. In the same amount of time it's not like Mac users have had to buy 10 upgrades to their OS.

As for ram, you don't have to put Apple bought memory in it. You can put the exact same ram in it as a PC laptop.

Final cut pro is hardly a good example. Final Cut Express is $300 and blows away any $300 video program on the PC. And then you get iMovie for free if you just want simple video editing. What $100 video editing program on the PC are you talking about? You're not posting facts, you're posting week arguments based on your biases.

Ironic you'd called Apple users elitists. In this thread people have called Apples "communists", complained about "Apple 'marketing' BS" , and said Apple "pisses me off." Oh and don't forget "Apple is like hitler". Hmm. Yes, very convicing and well fashioned arguments.

Actually, it's a REALLY bad idea to run OS X through XP or vice versa. It'll be like running on a 486 (or the equivalent). So, it's very much about what OS you want to use.

I think it is your comparisson that is way off. No 95-->98-->ME-->XP isnt free, nor should it have been free. Just like I wouldn't expect OS 9 --> OS X to be free. However, 10.2 and 10.3 added things to OS X that should have been there in the first place IMO. Microsoft didn't charge anything for SP1, and they won't again once SP2 comes out. My comparrison is more like that of 98 and 98 SE. When Microsoft charged for 98 SE, they were doing what Apple is doing now which is screwing their customers.

I don't like MS or anything, I'm not going to side with them at all, but they are offering the upgrades to XP for free, as they should. Anyone who tells me Panther was worth another $100 must of lost their mind.

As for the RAM, I knew that. I understand that everything in a Mac is the same as in a PC other then the CPU and MoBo. And I, of course, would never buy the RAM upgrades directly from Apple. It should still be against the law to sell it for as much as they do. Most users won't know that they could get it for less.

As for Final Cut, I didn't know it was such a good price. I thought it was at least $500. $300 is still 6x more then I would ever pay for a single piece of software, but thats just me. I don't have the money to blow to edit a few videos. But nevertheless, thats a decent price, so that is definetely something I would give to Apple as a triumph.

Apple, used as an anology against PC's as communism is apt. Apt my friend. I admitted at the beginning owning a Mac, I really love how sexy their powerbooks are. I love a lot of things Apple does, but that analogy is spot on. In fact, if their next powerbook is made of Carbon Fiber like I have reportedly heard, that is just fantastic. I doubt I could afford one, so I would never own one, but the thought of a Carbon Fiber laptop just makes me drool all over myself. In fact, everything about Apples products are, for the most part, sexy. I love the HUGE LCD displays, and the Harmon/Kardon speakers, and all that. The mice suck though, and the keyboards are all just as bad. iPod rules the roost, and powerbooks are still the sexiest laptops you can buy.

All that said, Apple is still like communism, and (in my experience mind you) their users are usually more like what I described. As far as I'm concerned, I could care less, buy 1 or the other, whatever, who cares.

the proof

Well, figured that might come up, so here are some screenshots I just took of my P3 866mhz Intel 810 graphics, 256mb ram, running MacOS X Panther under Win2k Server.





I'll admit that running OS X with 128 (i dedicated 128mb in the settings) with a P3 is not exactly "quick" so once i get my lappy and upgrade the ram, I'll try this again and post an update. My hope is that if i dedicate 512mb purly to OS X with a 3ghz P4 cpu and 128mb M10 graphics, it will do quite well.

Also, soon I am planning to set up a fully working WinME emu under Mandrake 10.

When I am done with my setup, I'll be supporting 3 platforms in the following setup:


windows partition: win2k or xp (also supports OS X)
HD: boot loader (LILO linux swap file swap file
linux partition: Mandrake 10 (also supports WinME)

so like that I will have 2 native environments of GNU/Linux and Windows NT, but I will also have a windows emulation (under linux) and a mac emulation (under windows).


And you are telling me it is the question of OSes!

I hated those power supplies. It was always fun trying to plug those into a tight space.

The round ones were much better.

I must say that apple does spew allot of marketing bs, the other comments are well stupid. But apple has been caught using modified versions of photoshop to market their machines. Also they only show the benches that favor their machine. Honestly I that Steve jobs is both the savior and the sinner at apple. When I saw the apple benches for the new g5, something was obviously askew. I looked around, and not surprisingly apple was up to their old tricks, optimizing software, not benching with off the self stuff, only showing the benches where the G5 would win. Yeah pc companies hype their stuff, but not to the degree that apple will go to. I will never believe anything that apple says, I always check what they say. My personal favorite is where they say that they worked with IBM on the 970/G5, No IBM designed and fabed that chip with out any input from apple, that was completely BS. IBM sells them a 970 which apple calls a G5, apple had no none, I repeat no input to the design, fabrication, or packaging of that chip. Believe apple all you want.

Now the other comments about apple being communist, or comparing them to Hitler, is well childish.

Now the G5 is a powerful processor, and it’s a HUGE improvement over the ageing G4, but it has its flaws, like every other processor on the market. I just wish that apple would accept that and stop pushing it as things that its just not. Personally I think they should dump the G4 altogether, find someway to get the G5 in to their laptops, and forget that they ever met Motorola. If they do that I assure you my next laptop will be a 970 powered apple. And saying that they helped design it is a slap in the face to IBM, who made a very interesting processor, that apple choose to use.

*news on my OSX emu*
I upped the ram to 220mb (leaving win2k to struggle with 36mb) and also scaled the settings down to thousands of colors (from millions) but did up the resolution from 800*600 to 1024*768 so that resolved the issue of the "dock" being cut on the bottom. Of course 220mb ram and a 866mhz P3 trying to handle 2 OSes side by side can't match a Motrola G4 (or IBM G5) only running 1 OS but, in fact it DOES WORK!

I should be recieving my R3000t by first week of September, after school and on the weekends I'll be working to set up the above-mentioned config. At that time I will put up a full review of the computer itself and the triple OS duty it can handle. who knows, maybe I'll try 3 oses at the same time (Mandrake 10 running Mac OS X under Wine, and OS X Running WinME under Virtual PC), I'll tell you how that goes.

It seems like you should know that it comes with another cord you can optionally use, which plugs in where the current plug is, and makes it into the same format as a normal PC adapter (cord from computer-->brick-->cord to wall instead of cord from computer-->wall brick) ?