does Sager have this-> nVidia GeForce4 4200 Go graphics?

Personally, I don't think the ATI9K is inferior, at least in terms of features; not when it supports the DX8. The GF 4200 is certainly superior, but then again, there's always something in the future.


Rob

um....... major contradiction, the M9 is not inferior but the GF is superior? Sure ithe GF42 doesnt have DX8? NV kicking themselves again......

Anyway, that new chip draws so much power that I think it is only going to be in desknote systems (systems without batteries).

NS

Clarification to my above; IMO the ATI9K isn't inferior to Geforce4 460 Go (in the Toshiba), but it will be when compared to the upcoming GF 4200; or so the initial previews from Anandtech have indicated.


Rob

Ah, that makes sence.

But as I said, unless nVidia pull some amazing miracle, the 4200 isnt going to be an acceptable battery solution because of the obsecene power drain.

NS

The battery consumption is indeed a concern. But really, if the GF 4200 is going into a desknote type of notebook like the Sager 5600 series, I wouldn't be particularly concerned about battery life to begin with.


Rob

I would, I get about 3 hours work on battery on my 5660 and 2 hours gaming.

NS

Oh all right. The way I'll be using my Sager - when I pick it up next year, unless DELL comes up with an 8250 with an equivalent/better graphics solution, a better chassis, and improve their tech support - is that it'll replace my desktop where I'm going, and maybe just bring it occasionally to the lab where I'm working.

Keeping my fingers crossed that the GF 4200 will be available by next Jan to Feb.


Rob

For those in need of the absolute fastest graghics, wait a bit longer. The Nvidia GeForce 4 FX is coming for desktops in a couple of months. It uses a new 0.13 die fabrication process. That is what's taking Nvidia so long to challange the ATI Radeon 9700.
All ATI & Nvidia Graphics chips use a 0.15 fab process which use a lot mor power. So, you can see where Nvidia's head is at and I think they will leapfrog ATI in the mobile computing area soon.
ATI is probably working on thier next technology also and so we leapfrog along. Here is some good reading.

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/...orcefx-03.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/02q3/020819/

Its the GeForce FX, not GeForce 4 FX btw

NS

Of course, GeForce FX is correct.

Another thing about the 4200ti is the heat. These babies really do produce a lot of BTU's. That heat needs to be evacuated from the chassis directly or the other components will not have the ability to keep themselves cool. This is when lock ups, shut downs and other weird stuff starts happening. I have found that the ATI products do not seem to be as much of heat producers and is probably why a lot of high end laptop companies use them.
I like Nvidia equally as much though I bet it becomes a bit more of a design challange. I am constantly amazed at what gets squeezed into these portables. The 8886 is just to much, LOL!

My only complaint about the 8886 layout design is that the PCMCIA slots sit right on center above the two CD-Rom bays. If you have a couple of cables hooked up to these slots and want to open either CD-rom, they are hanging on top and in the way.
The 5660 does not have this problem.

If you're going to wait til June to purchase you're notebook you should have a few choices by then:

NVidia 4200go - should be appearing in notebooks probably in Jan-feb I don't know sager/clevo's upgrade path but I don't see the 4200go in their machine but I could be wrong.

ATI M10 - should be out in the spring...my guess is april or late march. If I'm not mistaken this should be a directx 9 video card. It should probably compete well with the 4200go in speed and most definitely beat out in features. (perhaps a derivative of the 9500)

summer-my guess is NVidia will counter with a 4200go with better powersaving features, higher clocking...etc. Late summer (around aug-sep) ATI will counter with their next Video card solution which IMO will be comparable to the desktop version of the 9700 (not pro version).

ok...so these are just my guesses

The GeForce4Go 4200 requires a converter to be used on laptop motherboards because of the different interfaces. It is a power sucker, as has been mentioned, and its features are comparable to that of the M9... The desktop Radeon 9000 (obviously better than the M9, but really not by all that much, just that it can have 128 megs of ddr ram) is comparable in practice to the Geforce4 ti 4600. My friend has both, and he has put them in the same computer (swapped them) and ran them... Yes, the ti4600 gets better numbers on the benchmarks, but my gosh in the actual games the radeon is gorgeous... I don't think the power drain and the heat produced is worth the risk of even trying to design one of these systems with it. Also, even if Dell does, their laptops won't come near the performance of a sager with a desktop processor and all of its extra sweetness.

The GeForceFX is already out, and is being shipped with desktop systems. It's amazing, period. But the Radeon 9700 is pretty darn amazing in and of itself, despite being several months older... So, ATI's next card will be !!!!! both for desktops and for lappies, since ATI also tries hard to keep battery consumption to a minimum. Any numbers comparing battery times between an nvidia and an ATI will show you that (even if it's a 420 or 440 Go and not the 4200, lol, which will take even more power). I would wait for th M10 if you are willing to wait... It will be out after the 4200, but not by long. I doubt sager will try and incorporate the 4200 unless nvidia makes major changes to the heat output (which will undoubtedly lower that card's performance enough to make it equivalent to the current M9... which, admittedly, is pretty darn sweet anyway :-)).

Just my 2 cents though. Talk to you all later!

Beebster, the GeForce FX IS NOT OUT. and will not be till around Q4 next YEAR.

Also, the GF4600 kills the Radeon 9000 in everything. The only reason the Radeon looks better is because ATi set the detail levels very high with the drivers to start off with (you can do the same with the GF cards drivers).

NS

Also, there wont be a card out (mobile) comparable to the Radeon 9700 for a long time, as the Radeon 9000 is still quite a bit slower than a Standard GeForce 3. Which is trailing far behind.

NS

You mean the M9 is slower than the standard GeForce3, right? The desktop Radeon 9000 is much faster, even the 8500 is faster than the GeForce3 Titanium. But in any case, the laptop cards are always lower on clock speed because of heat issues. Being that Id says the M9 is built to handle Doom3 better than any mobile card, lol, I am guessing it'll be a good performer for a while to come. I would be more than happy with it :-) (Just wish I could get 128 megs of ddr on it... soon a mobile card will have that, though)

The Radeon 9000 is SLOWER than the Radeon 8500, but the Radeon 9000 beats the GF3 anyway (but not by much).

I was refering to the Mobility Rad before.

And also read the last post on the page before.

NS

I read somewhere that the GeForceFX was shipping with desktop systems already. Aw well, guess that was wrong, lol, sorry. But still, if it isn't going to be out for a year, then what's the point? ATI will have 2 more cards out by Q4 next year...

Also, the ti4600 does beat the 9000 by the numbers, I said that. If the 9000 looks better cuz of the driver settings and the ti can be made to do the same, then that's great. But I got a Radeon 9000 for $90 and you can't get a ti4600 for less than 3 times that much... I assure you it is not anywhere near 3 times better than the 9000. I realize we weren't talking about price earlier, but it is a consideration. The 9000 played every game just as well as the ti3600 did on my friend's computer. If that was not supposed to happen, then I don't know why it did, lol. I just saw it. Next time we do it, though, I'll have him set the 4600's settings to max. If I remember correctly, we had both of the settings set to the same thing when we did it though.

Oh, and just recieved word that the Readon 8500 has officialy been renamed Radeon 9100 by ATi.

NS