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Just returned two Thinkpads. Help, please!!

post #1 of 87
Thread Starter 
Well, nobody here can say that I haven't ordered a notebook.

I did.

However:

I just returned two Thinkpads under the 30 day money-back policy.
1.) Model 2378FVU, 14.1" SXGA+
Problems were:
- EXTREMELY limited viewing angles, horizontal and vertical (I only cared about the vertical). There was a very, very tiny sweet spot. If you moved the screen a fraction of an inch, the total shading and coloring changed for the entire screen. No exaggeration at all.
- Backlight leakage, plus the bottom of the screen (about 1") was more illuminated than the rest of the screen.
- One dead pixel
- Flimsy top cover. I had read that the Thinkpads have a super-strong cover, but if you run your fingers across the top cover with the machine on, you can see the LCD "ripple".
- I got the "bad" keyboard (Chinese) and the "bad" battery (Sanyo). I do realize that IBM would have remedied these, but I was ready to send it back anyhow because of the other issues.

2.) Model 2379DXU, 15" SXGA+ with Flexview screen
This notebook was overall much more solid than the notebook #1 above, but I did not like the screen overall. It did not have ghosting in DVD playback that I saw (I don't game much) but the screen was overall unappealing. It looked "washed out" as far as the colors. The blacks and whites were not very black and white. I was not very impressed with my first look at Flexview.
- Also, I got the "bad" (Chinese) keyboard and the "bad" (Sanyo) battery.

What the heck do I get now. I thought that the Thinkpads were the "creme de la creme" but they seemed overall quite average. Maybe it was just the models I ordered, maybe it was just "luck of the draw" and most people's are better. I don't know???
Especially with the lack of cover rigidity on the 2378FVU, I would have NEVER guessed that would be possible on a Thinkpad, from everything I read (and I have read A LOT!!)

Also, I am quite sure that XGA or WXGA is all that I need in a small, light machine. Yes, Magic Robin and all, you were all correct. I can "make do" with SXGA+ on a 15" but there is no need to try.

On the larger end, I can get an HP nc6000 with XGA, or a Compaq x1000/HP zt3000/HP nx7010 with WXGA.

I would try another Thinkpad, but all they offer in XGA has only a 7500 card. I would be interested in an X31, but I can't do a system that ONLY has Glidepoint and no touchpad.

In the smaller varieties, there is the SONY 12" V505 series. Not worth it???

I do not want a notebook with the shiny, reflective screen like the XBrite or Crystal View.

I would like the highest possible build quality, and good warranty that accidental damage protection can be added to. I don't know anyone other than IBM or HP that offer this at a reasonable price???

I could go for the 6.5 pound Compaq/HP widescreen, but it is really heavier than I want.

I could get an ACER 2025, but are accidental damage warranties truly available from ACER. I read their warranty, and it was quite vague, at best. Also, anyone you can buy an ACER from that guarantees no dead pixels???

PLEASE OFFER SUGGESTIONS:
I had it down to one of the above Thinkpads, and now that I didn't like either of them, I have no ideas.
XGA or WXGA only please.
6.5 pounds, but preferrably much ligher.
Trackpad, internal CD-RW, and no weird, tiny keys on keyboard.
Absolutely top quality only, with accidental damage protection available reasonably (not $600 for 3 years like hypersonic).

Or, just tell me what the hell to buy. I am not likely to return the next one unless it is dead out of the box. Too tired of the whole damned thing. Disallusioned with the whole IBM experience. Shouldn't they have been better???

Thanks,

Andrew
Austin, TX
post #2 of 87
I suggest that you have a look at HP nc8000 / nw8000 with a SXGA+ screen. The viewing angles on nc6000 are much more limited (on both XGA and SXGA+), and knowing your high quality standards I think you wouldn't settle for them.

My bro recently bought nw8000 (see my sig), and we have no complaint about it yet - besides the motherboard breaking down, but it got fixed fast. We haven't encountered any problems reported by nc8000 users (e.g. MagicRobin), except for the keyboard registering only 2 simultaneous keypresses, which is no problem for us. Perhaps there are more differences between nc8000 and nw8000 than what you can see in the specs?

post #3 of 87
Never liked thinkpad (Yes I owned one). Only good thing is that you can buy a 5 year warranty wich I have never seen anywhere else, and service under warranty no questions asked. But they are over priced and always laging behind in technology. No wide screens, no AMD 64 or anything usefull. Yes I know that they are deliberatly concervative, but it's getting substandard and cheap. Like the not so low priced entry models with Radeon 7500, 128 MB etc, and your supposed to run WinXP on that? IBM is getting OLD... I guess that's the image they want though!
post #4 of 87
Sorry I missed the line where you said that SXGA+ is too small. I think you should have a look at computers with WXGA screens. For example, nx7010 has very good viewing angles: ±65° Horizontal, ±50° Vertical (typical).
post #5 of 87
Here are nc6000 (XGA) viewing angles for comparison: ±45° Horizontal, +15°/-35° Vertical (typical). Especially vertical viewing angles seem to be quite limited, but on the other hand nc6000 is lighter than nx7010 and has got a bit better graphics card.
post #6 of 87
Hmm... just pondered your situation a while. If you want good viewing angles, you need to get a 15.4" WXGA laptop, which is heavy, usually starting with 6.5 or 7.0 pounds. 14.1" XGA laptops are lighter, but have far worse viewing angles. You must choose one and bear the other. As an HP fan, I'd go with nc6000 over nx7010, since it has better models and is nearer to the top of the line. BUT if I were to use the computer extensively for DVD watching with friends/family, I'd take nx7010 for its viewing angles alone.

Here are the complete screen statistics:

nc6000 XGA screen
14.1-Inch Color TFT
XGA Display
Dimensions (H x W x L) 11.2 x 8.4 in (28.6 x 21.4 cm)
Diagonal Size 14.1 in (35.7 cm)
Mounting Internal
Number of Colors 16 M
Contrast Ratio 250:1 typical
Refresh Rate 60 Hz
Brightness 160 nit typical (NOTE: Brightness is listed as an average measurement and may vary among panels.)
Pixel Resolution Pitch 0.279 x 0.279 mm
Format 1024 x 768
Configuration RGB Stripe
Backlight CCFT
Character Display 80 x 25
Total Power Consumption 4 W
Viewing Angle ±45° Horizontal, +15°/-35° Vertical (typical)

nx7010 WXGA screen
15.4-Inch Color TFT WXGA Display with wide viewing angle
Dimensions (H x W) 13.0 x 8.1 in (33.1 x 20.7 cm)
Diagonal Size 15.4 in (39.1 cm)
Mounting Internal Panel Supports, Side Mounted
Number of Colors Up to 16.8M
Contrast Ratio 200:1
Brightness 180nt typical
Pixel Resolution Pitch 0.259 mm
Format 1280 x 800
Configuration RGB stripe
Backlight Edge Lit
Character Display 80 x 25
Viewing Angle ±65° Horizontal, ±50° Vertical (typical)

In summary, the nc6000 XGA screen has better contrast, is less bright, and has worse viewing angles than the nx7010 WXGA screen.

Cheers,

Tommi
post #7 of 87
Thread Starter 
Thanks, Tommi.
The nc6000 and nx7010 (and its 2 HP/Compaq lookalikes) are the primary ones I am toying between. I have seen the Compaq x1000 version. This is the model that has the "ATI 9200" that is really an ATI 9000, and comes with about 4 different screens, 2 of which are good (a Samsung and one other I think, a Hitachi and another are not, IIRC), so, according to the folks on the x1000forums.com forum, the nx7010 (and its twins) are kind of a crapshoot, since you don't know which screen you will get until you receive it and run the Knoppix boot disc. With the nc6000, you pretty much know what you are getting, but I have never seen one (I have seen the nw8000, KINDA big looking, IMHO).

Damn, I wish there was something small (14" Thinkpad size or smaller) with:
1.) A great screen, that was NOT a reflective one like the XBrite or Crystal View.
2.) Internal CD burner
3.) Good keyboard, not a bunch of multi-function keys, or reduced-size keys.
4.) XGA, or WXGA
5.) Great build quality, great warranty with accidental damage coverage available reasonably (IBM, Dell, HP are the only ones I know that offer it reasonably).

Wow, this is like my very own "what should I buy" thread!!!
I never had one of these before!!! (more like 20 of them)!!!

I think I am about to get myself, and everyone else here sick.
There is hope, I DO know what I want, just haven't found it yet.

Andrew
Austin, TX
post #8 of 87
I'm just going to through a few choices out there that I've researched:

Fujitsu 7010D: supposed to have a great screen, 14" XGA, decent build quality although some people don't like the keyboard, integrated graphics, < 5lbs

Acer Travelmate 3200: New folio design, 14" XGA, <5llbs, 9700 graphics, Total protection available but I've heard some acer support complaints on this forum. Not available in the US yet.

Proportable has 2 new ultraportables that they designed themselves. MX and UX I believe. Much like Fujitsu. Very nice specs except integrated graphics. Not out until september I believe.

Vaio S series: don't know much about it except that it's light, nice looking, dedicated graphics and expensive.
post #9 of 87
i wouldnt go for the v505

i had one, and i got rid of it cause the viewing angle was way too tight. I suppose that I could get used to it, but I had been using a 17" desktop LCD, and after 3-4 days I still couldn't get over the crappiness of the Vaio screen. The only way it looked good was if I had it on my lap and it was tilted...any movements and the screen went blah

having said that though, why are you so against the glossy screens? I have a CASV right now and I don't notice the glare unless I am not doing anything with the screen. If I am typing a document, surfing, chatting, coding, doing graphics or playing a game, I don't notice the glare at all
post #10 of 87
Thread Starter 
OK, my take on these options:
1.) Fujitsu 7010D. Pretty much what I have heard on it also. You have to hold the Function key down for page up and page down, etc. Not a great keyboard, and has gotten some really poor professional reviews. The Fujitsu's with the shiny screens get much better reviews. Would be a pretty "iffy" choice I think, although I LOVE the size, form factor and weight.
2.) ACER, not sure about ANY ACER. People seem to love them or hate them. Heard same as you about support. Also, I read their "total care" warranty, and it seems to exclude stuff that should be covered. Not sure.
3.) You said Proportable, but DON'T YOU MEAN PORTABLE ONE??? (laptopsinc.com)????
If so, aren't their "new designs" actually ASUS models???? Or am I missing something??? Actually I called Portable One about these models, and they told me that they were "ASUS casings" with their own design inside, or something like that.
4.) Vaio S series, do they have XBrite screen, if so, I don't want one. Yes, I know they are a lovely looking screen, but reflective won't work with my eyes, around fluorescent lighting, where I am likely to be.
Any others???
Again, XGA, lightweight and TOP QUALITY.
I am not sure that Fujitsu, ACER, and ASUS fall into this category??

Andrew
Austin, TX



Quote:
Originally Posted by mawst95

Fujitsu 7010D: supposed to have a great screen, 14" XGA, decent build quality although some people don't like the keyboard, integrated graphics, < 5lbs

Acer Travelmate 3200: New folio design, 14" XGA, <5llbs, 9700 graphics, Total protection available but I've heard some acer support complaints on this forum. Not available in the US yet.

Proportable has 2 new ultraportables that they designed themselves. MX and UX I believe. Much like Fujitsu. Very nice specs except integrated graphics. Not out until september I believe.

Vaio S series: don't know much about it except that it's light, nice looking, dedicated graphics and expensive.
post #11 of 87
Thread Starter 
You are undoubtedly right about the V505, I will undoubtedly pass on getting one of those.

I am sure that most people can get used to anything after awhile, car, notebook, whatever.
The glare has bothered me and my eyes everytime I have seen a notebook with an IPS screen (other than the IBM Flexview, which was not impressive at all, or I got a bad one, no idea, and don't care). I don't like seeing my reflection in the screen (I am frightening enough to others, don't want to scare myself!!) What is CASV?? I assume that is an IPS of some sort??

Andrew
Austin, TX



Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNPoLiCe001
i wouldnt go for the v505

i had one, and i got rid of it cause the viewing angle was way too tight. I suppose that I could get used to it, but I had been using a 17" desktop LCD, and after 3-4 days I still couldn't get over the crappiness of the Vaio screen. The only way it looked good was if I had it on my lap and it was tilted...any movements and the screen went blah

having said that though, why are you so against the glossy screens? I have a CASV right now and I don't notice the glare unless I am not doing anything with the screen. If I am typing a document, surfing, chatting, coding, doing graphics or playing a game, I don't notice the glare at all
post #12 of 87
Have you considered giga-byte?

http://www.giga-byte.com/Notebook/Pr...oduct_List.htm

The gigabyte nb-1401 got pretty good reviews at AnandTech. I still don't know if it's available in the US though. All the resellers listed on their website don't seem to have any noteboks available.
post #13 of 87
You can order a custom Sony S series without the Xbrite screen from SonyStyle. I haven't heard any feedback from anyone who has seen the standard screen though.
post #14 of 87
Hey aamsel, my kindered soul, before you plunk down the cash on a Sony S series, make sure you go down to Circuit City (or similar) and play with keyboard a bit. I did just that the other day and that pretty much ruled that machine out for me ... I don't know if it was spacing or travel or both, but "the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog" had too many type-os on the "eyes closed" typing test.
post #15 of 87
I just went to curcuit city yesterday to try out the s150 and its just so out of this world amazing. First of all, in response to the last post, I find the keyboard to be fine - it's true it will take some getting used to, but I'm positive I could use it after AT MOST 2 weeks of use. The screen on the s150 is just so unbelievably amazing that if I didnt need the extra power of the cl56, I would without a doubt trade it in for a s150. Sizewise, and screenwise, it's just amazing.
post #16 of 87
What about the MSI M510C? That's an XGA screen.
post #17 of 87
Yep, sorry, I meant portable one. I really like the MX version, but damn integrated graphics. The guys at notebookreview forums are very positive on fujisu.

What about the MSI 5-something-c
post #18 of 87
and as far as Acer is concerned, their lappys seem solid. Just so-so support, which is typical now a days. I really think the specs and design of the new travelmate 3200 are killer
post #19 of 87
Have you looked at the panasonic toughbook W2? It might be worth a glance.
post #20 of 87
A quick take on a few things for you aamsel. I too had two of the "stinkpads" to try out. One, the 2378FVU and the other, a T41P (2373GEU I believe). I disliked them both as well and returned both. I was also very disappointed in the build quality and screen quality, especially after all the hype form other users. The situation with their application and driver updates and downloads was the thing that really pushed me over the edge. Talk about some proprietary garbage.

Anyway, I have seen the Sony S150 also and I think it is a smoking little machine. However, I have not seen one without the Xbrite screen so I can not say whether the non-reflective screen versions will look good or not. I think the Sony is very nice but without seeing the other screen it is hard to say. A couple of other points on the Sony is that they are expensive and if you have to custom order to get the other screen you may have to wait a while. I don't remember your feelings toward Dell but I am very partial to their Latitude line. I use a D800 for work and own a D400. I really think you should consider a Dell D600 or even the D400 if you are not into gaming per se. Although, my ultimate recomendation for you is the Fujitsu S7010 series. I think the keyboard quality on these is quite good and I am not sure that the negative feedback from some folks is warranted (maybe these are the same people who think IBM thinkpads are so great). The 14" XGA screen on the Fujitsu is really nice as well. The only negative regarding the Fujitsu is that it can take a while to get one if you have it customized at all. If you order it from Fujitsu there are some optional warranty programs that are not bad (although Dell's complete care is better). If you order it from Portable One, Ivan will customize it for you with some nice additional hard drive choices that Fujitsu does not offer, plus they throw in the bluetooth and there is no tax or shipping (unless you live in California). Either way, Dell or Fujitsu I think would both be really good choices for you.

On another note, I decided I wanted the bigger screen so I am trying an Acer. I just got the 1681Wlmi from newegg and am going home to play with it now. I will report back tomorrow on how it looks and feels. If it does not work out for some reason I may resort to the Fujitsu myself. The S7010 would be my choice mainly because of the builtin firewire and because Dell has horrible choices of hard drives for the D600 plus the lighter weight.
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