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Can someone please end this?

post #1 of 42
6/2/03 at 2:47am
Thread Starter 
This whole "Centrino/M vs Desktop chips" thing is getting confusing.

Some people say the new mobile chips and computers are just as fast as the gaming laptops (sager) while plugged in, and the battery will last longer because it powers down.

I find this somewhat hard to believe, but anandtech had some benchmarks that shows they are pretty close.

Am I reading this stuff wrong? Am I missing some details? I would really love to get some info from knowledgable people around here.

Also, the main mobile laptop everyone keeps talking about being so fast is some Dell ( think Inspiron 8500? ). I looked at it and with half the ram of a 8887, smaller screen, 32 mb graphics card or 64 mbs graphics card, and other shortages it still costs almost 3K. On top of that, how could something like this score anywhere near the scores it's getting?
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post #2 of 42
6/2/03 at 5:01am
To my knowledge, Centrino(Pentium-M) is faster than Desktop P4 if it's running at the same clock speed... as you can see from many benchmarks, Centrino(Pentium-M) 1.6GHz running as fast as P4 2.2GHz.
You can looking for more detail on Pentium-M technology around the net about the technology behide this CPU.
As for 3D gaming benchmark, if you are running any games on the machine having CPU over 2GHz with the same good graphics card, you won't see any jump in score. The most important component in the game machine isn't a CPU, but the graphics card.
For Dell Inspiron 8500... they are using GeForce 4200Go. Even it has only 64MB, but it's about 30-40% faster than the Radeon 9000M with 128MB in Sager.
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post #3 of 42
6/2/03 at 9:03am
I did some research on the M vs desktop P4 a while ago. I will try to find the link, but as I recall the 1.6Ghz pentium M with 1k cach beat the P4 2.4Ghz for office applications. I don't recall the 3D scores, but they were close.
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post #4 of 42
6/2/03 at 11:03am
If I'm not mistaken, the on-die cache of M chips is double that of desktop P4 chips. While I doubt that the M chips would beat out the destop chips in floating point operations, the extra cache makes all the difference in the world when it comes to multitasking and gaming.
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post #5 of 42
6/2/03 at 2:03pm
geez peoples i spent seven whole minutes of my life getting links together!!!! (detect sarcasm)

goto the gaming forum and see them. decide for yourself, dont let someone else tell you.
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post #6 of 42
6/2/03 at 2:11pm
Whoa, I left my crystal ball at home today, otherwise I would have automatically detected relevant threads in other forums! (detect sarcasm)

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post #7 of 42
6/2/03 at 2:30pm
its called search (detect lack of sarcasm )
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post #8 of 42
6/2/03 at 2:43pm
Trying to tell people how to surf the internet is a fool's errand.

So is expecting people to surf a certain way.

This thread is completely valid and relevant, and poses questions not answered in the thread you're referencing, nor in the links you spent seven minutes of your life gathering.

Maybe a collective pat on the back for your googling skills is in order?

(detect whatever you want)
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post #9 of 42
6/2/03 at 3:57pm
chill amigo! was only messing with you! dont take it so damn personally....phew. im not telling anyone how to do anything.

and those links are completely relevant. they compare desktop p4s and centrinos in laptops. exactly what the OP wanted info on.
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post #10 of 42
6/2/03 at 4:01pm
Thread Starter 
If you read my message, you would know i've already seen those scores and benchmarks in your lovely posts (detect sarcasm)

Unforunately they did not explain how or why the laptops would be getting so high in the scores.

I saw some that said the die was actually larger, and was trained to be "lazy". So then why, my friend Is it scoring so high?

The GPU has 64 MBs less memory, the CPU is slower, they are not overclocked, and do not have HT.

So why.... Are they almost as fast ?

Althought I love sarcasm, I love it even more when people read my messages
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post #11 of 42
6/2/03 at 4:10pm
ok, well did you read any of the info about the systems in those links? they will explain it better than i can, but ill give it a go.

first of all, the higher 3dmark scores is largely due to the GPU. the 4200go is a superior card to the m9. i thought this was understood (sorry, im not trying to be an ass). just cos something has more ram doesnt mean it will perform better or worse. simply put, the 4200go > m9.

i think you might be putting too much emphasis on HT, overclocking and such. just cos the CPU doesnt have them doesnt make it a poor performer. the centrino have a shorter die making them faster (from my understanding).

you need to look at the tests and draw conclusions. why is the chip scoring so high (in some cases above, some right at, and some a little below p4/p4-m). this must mean the chip has performance rivaling those p4/p4-m's at certain speeds. of course, its a tradeoff. HT will give you help on multi-tasking. centrino gives you batt. life. see how it works?

the laptop is scoring so well b/c the chip performs well. read the reviews in the links. believe it or not it does answer your question. you just have to put it all together and draw the conclusions.
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post #12 of 42
6/2/03 at 4:18pm
?
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post #13 of 42
6/2/03 at 4:20pm
youre going to have to be a little more specific.
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post #14 of 42
6/2/03 at 4:25pm
oh! i forgot batt times, something the OP requested. cnet and anandtech both have the d800 coming in at around 3.5 hours on one battery. the secondary, im guessing would give you around 4.5 (thats a guess).

for one thing, the chip "turns off" when its not needed whereas the p4 will run at its rated speed non-stop until there is no juice left. there are a variety of other factors contributing to longer batt life in centrino, but this is the main one from my understanding.

if you really want to game hardcore on batt life, i hope you are playing solitaire or something. there is no laptop out today that will meet a persons needs in this area for any extended period of time. sager and centrino included. i do believe centrino is headed in the right direction (ive seen scores of 7000 on batt. life for 3dmark). still a long way to go to sit unplugged for 3+ hours playing bf1942 on wireless.
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post #15 of 42
6/2/03 at 4:27pm
in general p4 needs much higher clock to get thruput equivalent to p3. thats because it has a very long pipeline which is great when it guesses right in predicting next instruction but bad when it guesses wrong. to get apples-to-apples, more or less, subtract 1ghz from p4 to compare to p3. centrino is complete redesign of p3 with better power mgt and pipeline only slightly longer and better prediction. very cool technology but desktop p4 has more raw horsepower.
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post #16 of 42
6/2/03 at 4:33pm
Quote:
Originally posted by someguy035
for one thing, the chip "turns off" when its not needed whereas the p4 will run at its rated speed non-stop until there is no juice left.
Not true.

Most P4 laptops, when running on batts, underclock the cpu.

The main reason that the M processors extend battery life is because they run at a much lower wattage than desktop P4s.
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post #17 of 42
6/2/03 at 4:33pm
Thread Starter 
So if the Nvidia is faster, and the Centrinos can keep up even with the newer chips, why would anyone want anything else? Sure it slows down when on battery, but who uses a laptop to play games without having it plugged in?

It's just strange, that if these laptops keep up in speed, are faster in some tests, and last longer on battery, why would anyone buy anything else? Like I said, I have to be missing something, or everyone would be buying a Centrino wouldn't they?

I appreciate the links and info, but it just seems like something is wrong.
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post #18 of 42
6/2/03 at 4:39pm
Thread Starter 
Another thing I just thought of... The new Alienware Hive-Mindm is going to be using a centrino chip, pluss have either of the new 128 MB GPUs coming out. So then wouldn't it have the best of both worlds? If so, why aren't others planning on this, and wouldn't that design pretty much dominate the whole market?

It could perform just as fast as a gaming laptop when plugged in, and then be used to take notes and word work when unplugged lasting hours?
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post #19 of 42
6/2/03 at 4:39pm
motiv - i thought he was referring specifically to sagers which dont underclock (unless you mess with bios and even then its iffy).

well for one thing centrino is pretty expensive right now. its also relativley new. personally, i think centrino is the way laptop processors are headed. desktop processors are meant for desktops - this is completely designed for the mobile user. i think the numbers speak for themselves. to me, its not so much a question as "whats wrong". its more "will this meet my needs". i doubt a centrino would run rendering as fast as a HT p4 (still, this is all relative to someone running a 300 mhz p3 - ANYTHING is fast to me ). but i dont render
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post #20 of 42
6/2/03 at 9:07pm
Quote:
Originally posted by someguy035
motiv - i thought he was referring specifically to sagers which dont underclock (unless you mess with bios and even then its iffy).

well for one thing centrino is pretty expensive right now. its also relativley new. personally, i think centrino is the way laptop processors are headed. desktop processors are meant for desktops - this is completely designed for the mobile user. i think the numbers speak for themselves. to me, its not so much a question as "whats wrong". its more "will this meet my needs". i doubt a centrino would run rendering as fast as a HT p4 (still, this is all relative to someone running a 300 mhz p3 - ANYTHING is fast to me ). but i dont render
for another thing there is no such thing as a a centrino chip persay.. it is a marketing ploy by intel.. centrino is just the new pentium-M chip(banias) paired with their wireless mini-pci card... a laptop can have the Banias chip but not have an intel minipci wireless card and it will have the same speed as a centrino but cant be called centrino..
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