PCI Express & Notebooks - Page 4

OK, tahsnk,

But, you think that by the end of this year (2004) there will be a PCI E Mobile proc? but will it be 64 bits?
Also, the mobile 64 bits proc ( AMD64 DTR ) is it like PM a little bit? How the battery life comparated to PM? And what is the power?

Thanks,
Blacko

Yes. Notebook CPUs and GPUs are a lot less power consuming than their desktop equals, but the notebook environment is a lot less flexible as well. Differences of 5 or 10 Watt in a component, hardly noticable in a desktop, can lead to trouble in a notebook.

Marketing departments have been shouting "modularity" for the last 15 years when they needed another selling argument. Fact is, that notebooks nowadays aren't built much more modular than my first laptop, a 486 with whooping 33 MHz and a black and white screen.
Buy a notebook that fits your needs, just don't count on being able to upgrade gpu or cpu after a year or two.

Don't get me wrong: PCI Express is a great new bus for computers. Especially workstations and high end PCs will profit.
But I doubt that it will give us greater modularity in notebooks. If producers had been willing to standardize graphic cards, they could have done it with agp as well.

And don't forget: Even if the components are connected via pci express it isn't sure that they are removable at all. PCI Express is a bus system, it is possible to take advantage of it's performance by soldering the components to the mainboards, without using sockets or slots at all. They will use soldering for networking, usb, firewire, sound...
I bet there will be a lot of pci express connected graphic cards that will be soldered directly to the mainboards.

Best Regards

ChriO

OK, tahsnk,

But, you think that by the end of this year (2004) there will be a PCI E Mobile proc? but will it be 64 bits?
Also, the mobile 64 bits proc ( AMD64 DTR ) is it like PM a little bit? How the battery life comparated to PM? And what is the power?

Thanks,
Blacko

Due to the design of laptops allowing for more heat to develop as opposed to desktops- I'd imagine that the interchangeability amongst pci technology won't be that simple...

for example lets say I buy a notebook with this technology then in about 12 to 15 months I want to upgrade my GPU ; will the design in the computer allow for a stronger card (heat issue's)

what do ya'll think...

That is the marketing department shouting "modularity" again. Pictures like that have been published for removable agp graphics card as well, from ATi and NVidia.

Of course they will fit the needs of the notebooks they will be used in. Those are current cards for current notebooks. You will be able to put them from one current notebook in another current notebook. But if you are going to update a card in two years you will most likely be told that your old notebook isn't fitting the needs of the second or third generation cards that will be the current cards for the then current notebooks. You might be able to swap an old middle end card for an old high end card - but only if the notebook's producer designed the cooling generous enough to take care of the high end card's needs.

The only thing you can take for granted in computing is continuos change. I like the things they are promising now. I wouldn't mind modular notebooks at all, on the contrary. But they promised modularity 15 years ago as well and they still haven't delivered.

Best Regards

ChriO

OK, tahsnk,

But, you think that by the end of this year (2004) there will be a PCI E Mobile proc? but will it be 64 bits?
Also, the mobile 64 bits proc ( AMD64 DTR ) is it like PM a little bit? How the battery life comparated to PM? And what is the power?

Thanks,
Blacko

No. PCI express is a system bus, like pci. There will never be pci express cards that hold a processor. The technology isn't made for CPUs.

Best Regards

ChriO

ACER 1802 has been announced w/ 915G chipset and is now the US site here

http://www.acer.com/APP/AKC/INTERNET...3?OpenDocument

it's for sale at axiontech.com as well as some UK site's, it selling for around $1750 at axiontech but is listed as backordered.

I especially love how that laptop has both a 15.4" and a 17" screen.

"Both" with WXGA and a 64mb video card.

Super....

Well Chrio makes alot of good points and arguements ...most based on speculation and hardly fact. At this point I don't think anyone here cares if there is a next gen of cards the first set of PCIE books can't handle...I think most here will be quite pleased if they can get two or three upgrades before having to move on..No one here is expecting to upgrade for the next ten years. With that said..just because there is a next generation..does not mean they will stop making the first generation..They still make Pci video cards for desktops for example..How many here knows anyone that owns a PCI Video card? I don't..

As to some being soldered, this might be the case.. However for a high end Sager..I seriously doubt it...Sager has always delievered what its customers want..while HP, SONY all the rest have continued to ignore the gaming market...Dell is out to make a quick buck and I would hardly consider them an expert on the subject of what we want at a reasonable price..

This is a good place to start if you want some info on PCIe

http://arstechnica.com/paedia/p/pci-express/pcie-1.html

Hope this is helpful.

I would be more careful saying such thing. First, because I would rewrite it, saying "Probably almost no one here is...". And after that, I know lots of people that owns a PCI video card. Two with GeForce 4s and another one with a Voodoo 5500, to be precise. They have quite old desktops and just didn't feel any need to upgrade, even if I keep telling them that they have "unupgradable" computers, they need to buy a whole new one, for sure.

Well Synergi, it's very difficult to deliver facts for the future. All I can do is look at the last 15 years, dating back to the Intel 386 notebooks. For about three years I sold notebooks myself, thereby dealing with one producer directly. Since you are 6 years older than me you might have witnessed this period and the developments over this time as well (witnessed in the sense of paying attention to it).
Maybe the producers just needed the last 15 years to get a clue what the customers really want and are going to act on it now. Maybe Customer Support and Engineering are going to take over from Marketing and Accounting. Somehow I just can't believe it. We will see.

Best Regards

ChriO

Im not rewriting a thing..I think most got the gest of what I said.. obviously you did as well. As to the PCIE Video card..again you missed my point. Voodoo anything is how old? Old desktops? Im sorry I don't see anyone with a P4 3.0 or AMD 3400 buying a PCI Video card. That is the point I am making. Even, though PCI is old as dirt and ''most'' have moved onto AGP since 98...it is still an option even though AGP out sells PCI...If they are not a serious gamer,or just computer unsavy they may indeed buy one. However, most on these boards are either gamers, or run intense graphics programs. Meaning, we know our stuff....

This is true.. but creating a standard in the long run will save you, me and the OEM/ODM's money and time. Being able to upgrade your notebook is a gold mine of money to be had by the OEM's and ATI/Nvidia..its a win win for everyone as far as I can see. I do believe some of the lower end may be soldered. But things have changed, its not the card being modified to fit the mobo its the mobo being fit to hold the new standard. Hopefully if we are bright enough to figure out that power requirements may be a problem with future cards..so will the ones that are making the units.


Shsss...about the age thing...but yes i was around when the old grid laptops were out..ouch!

PCI Express & Notebooks

I've read a lot about how PCI Express is going to be coming to notebooks soon. While I doubt it will offer any sort of real advantages over AGP, since no graphics card supposedly uses AGP 8x to its full potential, I am interested in the ability to upgrade my graphics card. I have read many posts that suggest that you will be able to upgrade your graphics card if it uses PCI express. Is this true? If so can somebody point me to some non-forum links so I can verify it? Also, are these upgradable graphics cards going to be standardized such that a PCI express notebook video card will fit in a dell or a clevo, and we no longer will have to suffer with proprietary solutions?

Thanks.

that's the basic approach, here's nvidia's plan
http://www.nvidia.com/page/mxm.html

ati, of course, also plans this route
http://www.ati.com/companyinfo/press/2004/4755.html

Nvidia's plan is to allow for any graphics card manufacturer to use the modular approach, so in theory, any manufacturer that subscribed to nvidia's form would have this type of swappable video.