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Warranty Not Being Upheld!!!

post #1 of 51
10/19/04 at 6:43pm
Thread Starter 
Hello all,
I am currently in the middle of a very bad experience with Sager technical support, and would like some help with this if possible.

Anyway, my Sager 5690 was working perfectly since I bought it from PCTorque back in May. I had a few minor complaints regarding 2 bruises on the screen, as well as 2 dead pixels, but decided this was not worth the time or shipping charges to send in an RMA.

Two weeks ago, the plastic hinge on my laptop lcd screen cracked (reading the forums it seems to be common, but this was pretty bad) so I decided to get an RMA number for a repair of both the screen bruises and the cracked hinge. I got the number but needed to back my stuff up so I held off sending it in for a few days while I did this.

Anyway, about 2-3 days after the hinge cracked, I woke up one morning and discovered the backlight wouldn't turn on (the screen was completely black but you could see outlines of browser windows and such). So, I immediately sent this in to Sager for repair with the RMA I had. Since I am still under warranty, I figured this should be no problem.

Anyway, about 2 days ago, I recieved an e-mail that they needed to replace the screen. They admitted that there was indeed a problem with the "internal components" and would get me an entirely new screen, but would charge me $250 to replace it because they claimed to have discovered a small scratch on the surface of the screen, which they also claimed has nothing to do with the failure of the lcd backlight.

I replied back outraged, explaining the Warranty listed on Sager's website reads: "If you discover a defect, Sager will at its option, repair, replace, or refund the purchase price of this product at no charge to you..." This warranty does apply, since the screen's internal components failed, following the cracking of the lcd casing.

A Sager tech support representative replied, exclaiming that they refuse to "repair" the screen. (this is quoted from an email)
"Lately, the manufacturer does not want to fix LCD screen anymore. They just
replace it with a new screen."
However, Sager decided that since they will not fix the screen, they will use their second option, which is to replace it, but they decide they want to charge me for the new screen!

Once again I was outraged by this response, as this is a direct violation of the Consumer-Sager Warranty. I replied stating that Sager should be obligated to fix the screen as per warranty (which they claim their manufacturer "prefers" not to do) or replace it at their expense. Since then, I have only recieved childish e-mails back from tech support saying (quote from another e-mail):
"the $250 is not the cost of the screen. A new LCD screen is $780." (Thats the entire email)
They didn't even listen to the points I was trying to make about the warranty, and instead infer that I am getting a better deal than if I bought it myself completely. However, paying anything (the $250 I was quoted at) I still believe this is a violation of the Warranty.

So now, I'm in the middle of phone tag with them....this is so frustrating!
I feel like I'm caught up in a warranty scam, as Sager refuses to repair the screen, and will not exchange it because I have a small scratch on the surface (which they claim has nothing at all to do with the failure of the lcd -- all I want it to do is work again, even if they send me back the same screen!)

Any comments or suggestions would be very appreciated.
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post #2 of 51
10/19/04 at 7:03pm
Step 1: Wait for a response here. Send an e-mail to one of the PCTorque guys. From my limited exposure to them, they will go to bat for you. Not sure how much pull they have with Sager Support, though.
Step 2: Wait 24 hours.
Step 3: If you don't get anywhere, I would drop $50 to have a lawyer draft a letter. Usually, this is all you need. You might want to go with a nationwide firm (i.e. a retainer type firm) to cover the warranty's state. Or just go with one of the top 10 companies that appear in a google search, for the warranty's state. The letter will probably be fill in the blank, off of a template.

Of course, a full blown lawsuit isn't cost effective. But anyone can sue anyone about anything. $250 isn't worth their time to deal with this legally. A lawyer's letter will also get the Director of Technical Support's (or whatever) attention, as it appears you are being jerked around by the support monkeys, or some boneheaded policy a newbie MBA threw down.

Yeah, you will have gambled $50 needlessly, but that is the price of doing business, whether you like it or not.
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post #3 of 51
10/19/04 at 7:18pm
sucks, but thats how warranties are handled a lot nowadays. ive heard of people sending in laptops for repair for an issue to HP/Sony/etc and they get a phonecall back 4-6 weeks later saying that they'll repair it, but they are going to charge xx amount because there was physical damage to the part to be repaired which was caused by the end user, which effectively voids the warranty on that part of the laptop.

hopefully sager/pctorque will take care of you on this, but before i could agree or disagree with you i would need to see the screen and the damage they say is there. if theres a 1" or larger scratch in the screen and i were the manufacturer, i would say the exact same thing. theres no way im going to repair something that also has cosmetic damage from the user (even if it doesnt affect the thing thats broken), because its not exactly hard to cause a computer to 'break' and say 'oh, what a convience, my laptop just broke after i accidentally scratched my screen with a pen yesterday. warranty time!'
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post #4 of 51
10/19/04 at 8:06pm
There is such a thing as normal wear and tear? Does Sager's warranty state that if there is a scratch on the lcd within the warranty period we'll only make repairs for a small fee? I don't know if it does or not im just asking
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post #5 of 51
10/19/04 at 8:09pm
I am already hard at work on this issue with Sager's RMA department. I will give you an update as soon as I can. I am sure that there is something that can be worked out.
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post #6 of 51
10/19/04 at 8:19pm
Thread Starter 
I have e-mailed PCTorque, and they have replied letting me know they will try to help me out. As far as the scratch goes, although I don't have photographic evidence, I am confident that when I sent the laptop out for shipment, I did not notice any small or large scratches on it (both with screen on and off).
Whether they are referring to something I could only have seen if I was actually looking hard for them and at a certain angle, or it was a surface scratch that cant be seen with the naked eye anyway, i'm not sure. Also, I'm not sure anything happened during shipment (I highly doubt it -- I went out to buy a special laptop box that was size-customizable to snugly fit the computer in with all the padding) but photographic evidence from there side may also be useful...

Anyway, I will wait another day or 2 to see if any progress has been made regarding the issue. Then I'll see where to take it from there.

Thanks for the suggestions!
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post #7 of 51
10/19/04 at 8:42pm
gotcha. like i said, i dont doubt your claim, im only trying to view it from their perspective, having worked in electronics retail where this was an issue. its nice to have pc torque on your side though, as shown by luke's quick reply. all the more reason to purchase through them.
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post #8 of 51
10/19/04 at 8:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke@PCTorque
I am already hard at work on this issue with Sager's RMA department. I will give you an update as soon as I can. I am sure that there is something that can be worked out.
Seeing this response from Luke@PCTorque just confirms that when I am ready to purchase a laptop, PCTorque will get my business.

Best of luck seg.
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post #9 of 51
10/19/04 at 9:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke@PCTorque
I am already hard at work on this issue with Sager's RMA department. I will give you an update as soon as I can. I am sure that there is something that can be worked out.

You da man, Luke!

This is why we buy from PC Torque. Since stumbling across them earlier this year I've had nothing but positive things happen with them and have recommended them to anyone looking for laptops.

It is possible Luke can't get it worked out, but it is nice to see someone in our corner.
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post #10 of 51
10/19/04 at 9:50pm
It will be interesting to see if Luke can get it resolve...Im mere weeks from dropping nearly 3k on the 9860 i'd like to know it will be takened care of if there is a warranty issue..
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post #11 of 51
10/19/04 at 9:52pm
Use the Force, Luke!

(oh, I couldn't resist... how lame was that?)

-myrkat
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post #12 of 51
10/19/04 at 10:53pm
Seg, your best bet is to get someone on the phone and insist your laptop be repaired. Except that now you have PCtorque helping you. I have had various push backs of this type from various companies and if you are persistent, firm and insistent, but not beligerent, they all always end up fixing my problem. On a spirtual level, though, be willing to go to any lengths to get the deal you feel you deserves which includes legal remedies. This usually will result in not having to go that far. You're right, it's not your fault the replace instead of repair. In the future I suggest high resolution pictures of all sides of anything you send in to anyone. When I RMA'd for refund my 5680 they deducted $30 from my refund for a supposed scratch on the cover. I was not aware of any scratch.
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post #13 of 51
10/20/04 at 12:15am
I've sent my ECS in twice... and they will fix anything I tell them to. Just to note, it's through DeskNote... and not Clevo. Not the same company... just used for comparison

Anyway... last time I sent it in, I had them fix a speaker they dented the previous time they fixed it, replace the keyboard (letters were getting rubbed off), replace motherboard for dead GPU(second time), and they replaced the entire LCD and lid for no reason what so ever! So I got a new LCD out of it and I didn't even ask them to do it. However, I liked the old lid and LCD better than the new one. The new lid is plastic and the old had a metalic feel. I think their repair people were careless and broke my screen. Oh well.

Point is, other companies will repair anything you want, including normal wear(eg. keyboard). Plus they've replace my motherboard twice and LCD once. They can't be making any money off me I feel Sager is a better company, offering higher quality products. I think they should replace the screen, along with anything else that is worn or CRACKED.

Personally, I think it is some dumbass tech who doesn't realize what customer service is. Hopefully Luke gets this issue noticed by one of their higher techs or manager... and beat some sense into the stupid tech.

And may the force be with you Luke

Good luck Seg...
< Banana Dance for luck >
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post #14 of 51
10/20/04 at 12:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by myrkat
Use the Force, Luke!

(oh, I couldn't resist... how lame was that?)

-myrkat
lame enough to be ... n00b worthy?


good luck to you seg, Luke will have you taken care of in no time
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post #15 of 51
10/20/04 at 3:13pm
Here is the official word, there are 2 options offered by Sager in cases like these:

Option 1. Get a new screen at a reduced cost. A new screen is well over $600.00 so Sager offers the option to have a brand new screen installed for $250.00, great deal IMHO. Especially since these new screens are purchased under a different contract and normally are free of a pixel defects (IE: Dead, lit, or stuck pixels).

Option 2. Since Sager is not authorized to fix these screens they have to be sent back to the manufacturer for repairs, which takes roughly 1-2 months. So in this case Sager will replace the screen with one of the refurbished ones they have on hand they have already received back from the manufacturer.

It would appear that option one is normally much more popular even to the point that option 2 is seldom brought up any more.
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post #16 of 51
10/20/04 at 3:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by myrkat
Use the Force, Luke!

(oh, I couldn't resist... how lame was that?)

-myrkat
Dang... myrkat just landed 5 points to "N00b of the Week" award
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post #17 of 51
10/20/04 at 3:27pm
Hmm, that is pretty lame. I would certainly rather have a new screen, than someone else's old screen (which might have wear and tear issues), but the most sensible option of having your own screen repaired doesn't seem to be an option

I have had no problems with the screen on my 4760, but that is my biggest fear about getting a new laptop :/
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post #18 of 51
10/20/04 at 3:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke@PCTorque
Here is the official word, there are 2 options offered by Sager in cases like these:

Option 1. Get a new screen at a reduced cost. A new screen is well over $600.00 so Sager offers the option to have a brand new screen installed for $250.00, great deal IMHO. Especially since these new screens are purchased under a different contract and normally are free of a pixel defects (IE: Dead, lit, or stuck pixels).

Option 2. Since Sager is not authorized to fix these screens they have to be sent back to the manufacturer for repairs, which takes roughly 1-2 months. So in this case Sager will replace the screen with one of the refurbished ones they have on hand they have already received back from the manufacturer.

It would appear that option one is normally much more popular even to the point that option 2 is seldom brought up any more.
The following comment is not geared to pct at any way, but to sager:

"72 HOUR REPAIR PROMISE
AFTER THE FIRST 30 DAYS, AND DURING THE REMAINDER OF THE ONE YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY PERIOD, SAGER WILL REPAIR YOU PRODUCT AND SHIP WITHIN 3 WORKING DAYS AFTER ITS ARRIVAL AT OUR REPAIR FACILITY. YOU WILL PAY FOR SHIPPING THE PRODUCT TO US AND WE WILL PAY GROUND SHIPPING TO RETURN THE PRODUCT TO YOU. IF WE FAIL TO REPAIR AND SHIP WITHIN THE 72 HOUR PERIOD, WE WILL RETURN THE PRODUCT BACK TO YOU BY UPS SECOND DAY AIR AT OUR COST. "

In the next section:
"SAGER WARRANTS THIS HARDWARE PRODUCT AGAINST DEFECTS IN MATERIALS AND WORKMANSHIP FOR A PERIOD OF ONE (1) YEAR FROM THE DATE OF ORIGINAL RETAIL PURCHASE. IF YOU DISCOVER A DEFECT, SAGER WILL AT ITS OPTION, REPAIR, REPLACE OR REFUND THE PURCHASE PRICE OF THIS PRODUCT AT NO CHARGE TO YOU, PROVIDED YOU RETURN IT DURING THE WARRANTY PERIOD"

First off, doesn't that defeat the entire purpose of warranty if the consumer has to pay due to a defect?
If Sager did in fact admit a problem, then I don't see how the consumer is at liberty to pay $250 to have the problem fixed.

Seg, what state are you in? Even though $250 isn't worth fighting for in small claims court, all the time and hassle involved is more then that, I personally think it is not fair because the terms and agreements under the Sager warranty does not state that the consumer has to pay for any fees due to a defect. It is PERFECTLY understandable if the consumer had a cause in the problem i.e. physical damage, abuse, etc.

If you cannot get a resolution to the problem, I would file a compliant with the BBB and write to the Attorney General of California (that is where Sager is located) regarding Sager's practice because it can be misleading.
Last but not least, you can use the clause "Failure of Consideration". That is ONLY used for a defense measure. Each state has different laws regarding that.

Good luck!
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post #19 of 51
10/20/04 at 3:50pm
Wow, I fail to see the issue here. Check out any computer company's warranty policies and you will see that they all use refurbished parts.

http://www.alienware.com/sub_pages/warranty.aspx

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topi...n&~section=010


Dell and Alienware are just two examples. This is standard industry practice folks. Sager's policy is they will give you refurbished parts for free. Sager is actually going a step above saying we will give you a brand new part with a full warranty as another option.

Maybe you missed that the refurbished screens are free of charge?
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post #20 of 51
10/20/04 at 3:50pm
Well heck I wonder what the cost of a 17 WSXGA screen costs. So basically it sounds like Sager has limited warranty on the screen instead of a full warranty on the LCD? Now how would this have been resolved if you were out of the one year Sager warranty and on the Philips or Warrentech extended warranty? However on the other hand, if they are saying it can by fixed by the manufactor but there is a 2 month wait..Then Sager cannot meet the 72 hour turn around period in their own warranty, in this case I don't think the 250 replacement is fair..although I also understand this is at a lost to Sager.. a screwed situation on everyones end.

I should also state, as long as it doesn't look like someone elses return, I have no problem with refurbished.
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