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Buy 3790 or wait for PCI-Express?

post #1 of 67
10/20/04 at 9:22pm
Thread Starter 
Hi all,

I'm new to the forums and just wanted to get some advice from anyone. I currently have a 2.5 year old Winbook J4, 1.6 pentium 4, 15" SXGA+, w/512 mb ram and the ATI Radeon 7500 with 64mb ram. It's served me well and I've had the 3 year warranty so that's gonna be running out soon. Here's the deal...

The J4 is heavy...over 9 lbs, probably more like 11 with the power brick. Also, the Radeon 7500 doesn't support alot of the new games. I'm not a heavy gamer but do like to once in awhile, plus I'm constantly dragging my laptop all over town for my work so wanted something a tad lighter. After much research...I've decided the 3790 is a good fit, but it seems some here have mentioned that getting the 3790 with the ATI 9700 card now might not be wise if a new generation of cards is just around the corner.

What do you guys think? I can probably get about $800-$900 for my laptop if I sell it, since it's in mint condition and actually had the screen, motherboard and keyboard all replaced with brand new under warranty just recently (so it's like a brand new machine).

The 3790 looks tempting, but I'd hate to spend $1700 or $1800 bucks on one and then a month later find out it has been upgraded to one of the new PCI boards and I missed out.

Any thoughts?

BabyFaceMagee
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post #2 of 67
10/20/04 at 9:41pm
A lightweight pentium-m PCI-E is at least 9 months away. (more like 1 year at least IMO)

The PCI-E notebooks that are coming will be huge powerhungry monsters.
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post #3 of 67
10/20/04 at 9:44pm
you know i dont really think having pcie will make much difference for one thing, and secondly as far as i know the cards suprting it arent for laptops anyways
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post #4 of 67
10/20/04 at 9:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleK
you know i dont really think having pcie will make much difference for one thing, and secondly as far as i know the cards suprting it arent for laptops anyways
You should probably read up on this a bit more...before you post.

Some people say you won't see a huge difference. When will the ones that keep saying that actually get the point? Its about being able to upgrade. So what if the first card isn't better then the 9700 (althought it will be)..the point is when a new card is available he'll be able to upgrade..and those with agp won't...

As to laptops not supporting it, there is the 9860..
P-M's are held back til sometime in Q5 but this day could change.. the 6-9 month period is a safe guess..
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post #5 of 67
10/20/04 at 9:54pm
Thread Starter 
So if the PCI-E cards won't be coming to the lighter laptops for 9 months or so...what do you suppose the next graphics card in the 3790 series would be? Do you think they will stay with the 9700 for the next 9 months until the PCI-E cards are ready, or would they go to the 9800 perhaps? I certainly don't want to wait 9 months to get a new laptop so I might just take the plunge after I hear what some others think. Thanks for the replies so far.

BabyFaceMagee
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post #6 of 67
10/21/04 at 12:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BabyFaceMagee
So if the PCI-E cards won't be coming to the lighter laptops for 9 months or so...what do you suppose the next graphics card in the 3790 series would be? Do you think they will stay with the 9700 for the next 9 months until the PCI-E cards are ready, or would they go to the 9800 perhaps? I certainly don't want to wait 9 months to get a new laptop so I might just take the plunge after I hear what some others think. Thanks for the replies so far.

BabyFaceMagee
From what I understand, they're not going to the 9800. They're bypassing that entirely so that silly retailers like Dell get left in their dust in the move to PCI-Express. They may adapt it, but that would be a serious reworking, too, (I think it may even take an entirely new motherboard...), so they might as well just start trying to get our grubby little hands on PCI-Express-using Dothan-using motherboards so they do that first.
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post #7 of 67
10/21/04 at 1:21am
If portability is an issue which sounds like it is, I would go ahead and buy a 3790. Reason being if you are not a heavy gamer, the Ati 9700 should fit your needs. Going by other posts the 3790 runs Doom3 and Counter Strike Source well and those are more graphic heavy games. The new Sonoma chipsets are going to introduce the "upgradable graphics GPU's" among other things. I agree it will be 9 or so months until a mobile PCI-x laptop are available. Another reason the current Dothans are plenty fast and just got a price cut, besides if you decide to get a 3790 the next best thing after Sonoma could just be coming out "that is if you keep the 3790 for 2.5 years".
Another point would be if you can hold out with your current system by all means wait. If your pros out weigh your cons then buy it
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post #8 of 67
10/21/04 at 10:10am
I agree that the pcie pentium-m solutions won't be out for at least another 6 months. The mr9700 will suit you just fine. I myself are considering a 3790 after I get the 9860. If you need a laptop now get the 3790 it will serve you well.
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post #9 of 67
10/22/04 at 2:40am
Man you must be kidding me Agp isnt just gonna roll over and die. You will still be able to upgrade graphics several years from now with AGP and its not like the 9700 couldnt handle it. Im still running an old graphics card, several yeras old, and it runs games perfectly. YOu'd have to be soem insane fps freak to absolutely ahve to have 5% fps more ina few years, but whatever. O and the pcie is not the damn card its jsut the conection, and the bandwidth on agp is hugely above what the cards can curently use anyways.
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post #10 of 67
10/22/04 at 3:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleK
Man you must be kidding me Agp isnt just gonna roll over and die. You will still be able to upgrade graphics several years from now with AGP and its not like the 9700 couldnt handle it. Im still running an old graphics card, several yeras old, and it runs games perfectly. YOu'd have to be soem insane fps freak to absolutely hve to have 5% fps more ina few years, but whatever. O and the pcie is not the damn card its jsut the conection, and the bandwidth on agp is hugely above what the cards can curently use anyways.
I think we are aware PCIE is the connection. A MR9700 to a MR9800 is a 50 to 60% increase. Thats hardly 5% in fps. MR9700 4 pipelines. MR9800 8Pipelines. PCIE will be 12 and 16 pipelines on the higher end cards. Still the point is being able to upgrade. There are games now coming out that will tax the 9700...roll over and die? No.. stuck with it unless you sell and buy new..yes..
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post #11 of 67
10/22/04 at 6:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleK
Man you must be kidding me Agp isnt just gonna roll over and die. You will still be able to upgrade graphics several years from now with AGP and its not like the 9700 couldnt handle it.
Desktops, maybe. Notebooks, no way in hell.
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post #12 of 67
10/22/04 at 9:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharakkhal
Desktops, maybe. Notebooks, no way in hell.
Right on the mark

So you have a 3 year old notebook that has a cpu that is 3 generations old (Old cpu architecture, old memory architecture, old interfaces and I/O)....but you can upgrade the gpu...wow what a deal .......NOT!!! Any you think that a PCI-e gpu will be cheap and significantly faster or equal to their desktop leading edge gpu's? Guess again....look at the current crop of gpu cards now. They are not getting smaller, more power efficient or cooler. How many now have fans, molex connectors and take two bays? Yea...fit that into a PCI-e slot in a laptop.

This is a STUPID idea. Upgrading the gpu on an old notebook is like putting a Ferrari engine in a Toyota Tercel.

The original poster said that he had his current lappy for two years. If you can get that out of a laptop, just buy a new one every 2 - 3 years. You'll have the most current technology system-wise too. Maybe then PCI-e for a portable laptop like the 3790 might make sense.
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post #13 of 67
10/22/04 at 4:06pm
i seriously doubt that you guys know what you are talking about because your replies dont even adress what i was saying. Having more bandwidth through the pcie more pipelines than agp does not increase the eprformance of the card, it increasing the conection with the computer, which is alreaady much faster than graphics cards utilize. Plus yes, there will still be agp suport for laptop upgrading several years from now, just like the fact that old connections are still used on computers such as serial ports in stead of purely usb 2.0.
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post #14 of 67
10/22/04 at 5:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleK
i seriously doubt that you guys know what you are talking about because your replies dont even adress what i was saying. Having more bandwidth through the pcie more pipelines than agp does not increase the eprformance of the card, it increasing the conection with the computer, which is alreaady much faster than graphics cards utilize. Plus yes, there will still be agp suport for laptop upgrading several years from now, just like the fact that old connections are still used on computers such as serial ports in stead of purely usb 2.0.
Yes...I agree with you. I think PCIe on a laptop offers no (especially cost) advantage. In the long run PCIe gpu will cost you more. I do think that it makes sense for a desktop though. Desktop graphics cards will always be cheaper from a performance/dollar standpoint. PCIe is going to do little to help notbook performance. This is just like any new improved technology. The technology it's replacing is usualy on a few percentage faster at maximum cost.
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post #15 of 67
10/22/04 at 5:50pm
Really? So a 4 pipeline card can out perform a 16 pipeline card? Well heck were wasting our time waiting then.. ::says sacrastically::
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post #16 of 67
10/22/04 at 6:13pm
I still dont think ATI or Nvidia have confirmed the specs for thier new mobile solutions have they?

I am still not sold on the upgradability of PCI-e in a notebook, there are way too many factors to consider. However, PCI-e is the pretty much going to be the new standard so im sure we will see some nice beefy mobile solutions from it. I dont care if its PCI-e, AGP, or XYZ-e as long as it performs well and doesnt liquify a laptop =)

I just dont buy into all the marketing hype.
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post #17 of 67
10/22/04 at 6:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synergi
Really? So a 4 pipeline card can out perform a 16 pipeline card? Well heck were wasting our time waiting then.. ::says sacrastically::
did you not read what i said or what? the freaking pipeline is the conection to the cpu, it is not the power of the card. like i said 4x agp is still faster than current graphics cards utilize. think about it this way, if you have a really by pipe but your pump can only pump a small amount there is no need for the gigantic pipe.
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post #18 of 67
10/22/04 at 7:10pm
Syn is talking about pixel pipelines, not bus bandwidth. 8, 12 or maybe even 16 pixel pipes is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. what we have now.
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post #19 of 67
10/22/04 at 7:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roarak
Syn is talking about pixel pipelines, not bus bandwidth. 8, 12 or maybe even 16 pixel pipes is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. what we have now.
Thank you dear..I guess he wasn't getting what I was talking about...

Quote:
Pixel Pipelines - The amount of pixel pipelines a graphics card has can have a great impact on the speed of the image rendering. This is all about pixel pushing power. A card with 8 pipelines can process twice as many pixels as a card of the same core speed and 4 pipelines.
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post #20 of 67
10/22/04 at 8:37pm
god you idiots still dont get it. im talkin about the same mother ****ing thing, there is no frekain bus between cpu and video card dumies, its the pci/agp slots. and also you said 8 is biger than what we have now, we have 8 right now dumy, called agp 8x,
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