New Dothan Gaming review - Page 3

snorre, SiS has ALWAYS favored the AMD, get your facts straight

maybe read and you will find out that he is right

Not according to this:
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.c...id=1535&page=5

Did everyone fail to see that the top Dothan chip in the test is overclocked by 15% ??


Nothing wrong with overclocking, don't get me wrong, but keep in mind that P4 has been over clocked to 4.0 before, and FX-55 has been OCed to well over 2.8 GHz, and that will put both of them ahead of the overclocked Dothan chip I would bet, and FX-55 probably by a large margin.


To compare a seriously overclocked chip with something retail out of the box is an inherent flaw in a test like that. Sure heat is less of a problem for the PM than the other two, but OC brings other instability and longterm damage to the core and other unpleasant issues.


And certainly there are disparities among individual chips, and I seriously doubt that every 755 dothan chip will oc 15%; in fact, I will be pleasantly surprised if 10 percent of the chips can do 15 percent.


There is a reason why the feature set of PM is still ancient, because it is based on an ancient CPU. I doubt seriously how much Alviso is going to help in that matter, after seeing the grantsdale/prescott combination having little advantage than the northwoods from a year ago.

I would really like to see them all(the procs) put on the best platform they can, with the best vid cards, etc. and see their performance out of the box. I would also like them to OC each proc on that respective platform as far as it can safely go to get best #'s possible for that chip at the current time. I know that the AMD and the P4 will most likely/definitely outperform the dothan at these levels, but anyway i would like to see them do the test just for fun.

Nothing wrong with Pentium M, in fact, I envy your lappie, as my own needs some serious upgrading in a short order. I am sure dothan will do fine in any game that's out there, for most people. It's only those who care about the difference between 105 and 110 fps or something that really go out and buy P4EE or A64 FX anyways, which cost an arm or a leg.

Blah as to the topic.

Truth: AMD 64 performs better for gaming.

Truth: We'll all have new laptops by the time 64-bit becomes mainstream and is supported by most software.

Truth: This is one big thread so that people can feel good about the decisions they made in buying their laptop.

D

Edit: ok, so maybe we won't all have new laptops, but you get the gist

And we can safely say that the P4 line and the FX line will have newer processors during that time frame as well.
So I don't get your point!!!
You should know that P4EE with 3.6 GHz LGA is already found for sale on certain websites.
http://www.pluscorp.com.au/Product.a...=2&ProdID=3992
And the P4EE 3.73 version will be released in Q1-2

So the CPU the test used was already antiquated. And there is a good likelyhood that A64 4200 and FX-57 will be out before Dothan gets to 2.3.
http://freespace.virgin.net/m.warner/Roadmap2005.htm
http://www.dvhardware.net/article2707.html
http://www.clubic.com/actualite-1265...tre-2005-.html
Notice that 4200 is expected to be released in Q1, FX57 in Q2. In Q2, the dual core Opterons will probably start sampling, and be in the market by Q3, and this will make into the new FX Toledo core (FX59?) by Q4.

How is it honest to compare tomorrow's CPU which will be out who knows when, with processors that are out on the market today??



Why do you think people who sell second hand processors stress much of the time that OC has not been attempted on their product? And why do you think that they mention it's completely stable when they do sell them OCed? Why do you think OC voids your warrantee for most chip manufacturers ??
While some people will OC anything they can get their hands on, while many others do not think it's such a good idea. There are many dissenting opinions. There are well written comprehensive looks at OC for example:
http://www.pcguide.com/opt/oc/intro.htm
http://www.pcguide.com/opt/oc/risks.htm
And if you notice in the risks section, one of the harmful effects:

Electromigration: When the processor is run at a speed that is higher than it is supposed to be run at, there is a chance that the internal components in the processor may break down over time. The internal features of a CPU are sized in the range of microns. It is possible that when the processor is stressed by running at too high a frequency, along with the extra heat that overclocking incurs, that the actual metal lines inside the processor may form shorts or opens and damage the processor over a period of time. How likely this is to happen, and how long it takes is really not known. The system may work fine for a while and then suddenly stop working

Did you notice that Intel is not confident enought to put 533 MHz FSB for PM on the roadmap up to June 05, on their own website?
http://www.intel.com/products/roadmap/notebook.htm
Where was little, if any improvements on the desktop from to go from 800 to 1066 FSB that we can see of, what makes you think that going to 533 will be revolutionary for the PM?
And who know when it will be out, has Intel kept their schedule in anything in the last 12 months?

Have you tried OC yourself before?

How about this, I will send you a new chip, and you will guarantee to OC it 15 percent, and I will pay a fee of what ever you ask. But if you fail to OC it 15, then I get double the money back. Deal?

I'm sorry if I came on a little strong in the last reply, what I really meant is that I agree with you on many points:
1) that PM is perfectly capable as a gaming platform in its own right, at least for those of us who wouldn't pay 100 percent more for 5-10 percent performance gain.
2) PM is a much better option for certain types of notebooks, and any notebook made with P4EE or A64FX would probably weight a ton and need some serious cooling pad, and lose their status as true laptops. And a high performance Dothan is a perfectly legitimate alternative to that madness.
3) True mobile LTs ( < 5lb ) is one area that AMD needs to learn from Intel, who makes goods that may perform a few percentage points back, but truly fits the consumers' needs, and fits the definition of a prototypical LT. Whether gaming LT or not, a Laptop needs first to be portable and cool, which is the purpose in the first place anyways.

I really should not have directed the criticism at you. It's just that the article itself is misleading in the way it pits a processor that practically does not exist at the moment for the consumers, against processors you and I can buy today on newegg.

Even the article itself concluded that A64FX and P4EE to a slightly lesser extent are still the machines to beat in gaming; and stated clearly that Dothan 2.3 is not the retail version ready for the public. But some people take this slanted comparison in benchmarks to be gospel, and take it to be some technological breakthrough.

In fact, I don't have any allegiance to either company, and I think the best is to have two giants constantly duking it out. That way, we the little guys get to benefit from the advancement in technology, and low prices.

I guess this is what I am trying to say:
-- Yes, Dothan is a great chip for any LT, including gaming machines, and holds huge advantages in thermo characteristics.
-- But it does not mean that it's exactly on par with the likes of P$EE or A6$FX, if you get my drift. And in its current form, it will not be able to catch up to the big guys, even if alviso is realized.
-- But due to price and other considerations, Dothan would a much better buy than either of the other two for any LT (someone ought to smack the PR of manufacturers like Alien who call machines with P4EE or FX "Notebooks" with a straight face)

My apologies again.
HardBall

You know I've been wondering for a few months whatever happened to that Iraqi Foreign Affairs Minister...........

Don't bother worrying about him - he got rid of the childish Ferarri 3200s Saddam had given them and emmigrated to Taiwan to buy an Asus m6n so he is one happy ex-minister right now.

I have faith in the Alviso core cause the PentiumM needs to replace the Pentium4s pronto but i do love the fact that the PMs require such little cooling and power compared to the EE and FX demons. a 533mhz Bus with DDR2 and PCIe will definetly let the PM fly agreed?

Yes, overclocking does indeed shorten the lifespan of the cpu, eventually.

On the other hand, there are cpus that come from the exact same batch as other cpus sold at a higher frequency. It is the voltage that causes most of the heat -and the damage-, as when you overclock you often have to raise the volts as well. But sometimes the cpu can get a rather nice overclock at the stock voltage, especially if it was indeed just toned down to fill the need for slower cpus.

Also, while overclocking does shorten the lifespan, most of us will have discarded the chip due to its age by the time it starts showing effects of this.

Interesting, I almost believed the hype about Alviso meaning 533MHz FSB. The reason why Intel use suck a slow 400MHz bus on the PM were alegedly to maximize battery life, since a faster bus controller will eat up more power compared to just increasing the on-die cache size. As we all know, a large on-die cache does a good job compensating for a slower bus interface.

I think Alviso will be an incremental, evolutionary, and indeed necessary step, but won't be anything spectacular as some hope it to be. Likely with SSE3 support and the like, and may eventually migrate over to 533 FSB.

But this might be the last hurrah for the current generation of CPUs, and if I were buying Intel, I would wait to see if they have new offerings in H2 05.

I too am a fellow Dell owner, and have loved their service and reliability (I hope this is everyone's experience).
On the PM, I do think that it will fly, but it looks like 533 won't make into the chipset until H2 05, and the key is, everything else will also be that much faster by that time. For example, A64 4400 (May -June) will likely be out before that time frame. And Hypertransport II will be out before too long. And these all have independent channels for the memory controllers.

If PM chips are still stuck at 533 or even 800 FSB by the end of 05, I would be worried. That why I think Dothan/Alviso will be the last of its kind, and Intel is pushing hard for dual core and new FSB technology.