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HL2 oddity while playin on my 8970

post #1 of 19
11/17/04 at 1:01am
Thread Starter 
So, here im playing hl2, and enjoying it. I look at the silver bar below my screen and see two green flashing lights,... they are the LOCK 1 and LOCK A, im sure they have a name.. caps lock and numeral lock.. anyways... they are flashing. I havnt had this problem before playing any game.. even doom. The only thing i can think is that its over heating and this is a warning, i dont have access to my manual so i dont know what it means.. I have the curent video bio's, as well as the newest omega drivers as well.. Its oc at 499.50/290.25. Anyones have any ideas?
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post #2 of 19
11/17/04 at 1:18am
I think this is a overheating warning. The computer will lock up after this shows up. I had this problem while playing Far Cry and I decided to overhaul the cooling system with arctic silver paste and lapping. I didnt get too far with the lapping apart from some high grit sandpaper but I did use the thermal paste and it helped.

Make sure the laptop is well ventilated. Use erasers to elevate it a little more off the table top to give it better airflow under the chassis...

Make sure you close all other applications...kill everything that doesnt sustain the OS and the system...even explorer is useless when you play games so kill it
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post #3 of 19
11/17/04 at 1:55am

you mean... 8790?

sorry to be knitpicky, but ive had the same problem before. it happens to me often actually. sometines i'll kill a program in taskmanager that i thought had closed, and it would go back to normal. it blinks like that usually after i play games, but i havent had it lock up before. when i play games i use your clock speeds (490/290) but i havent had any problems when i play games and it blinks and locks up. i get like 65c MAX for long long periods of gaming. but nothing to where it crashes...
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post #4 of 19
11/17/04 at 11:31am
It basically means that your machine has reached "critical mass" and is about to melt down. Normally this happens after the machine has exceeded 72/73. My first 8790 was defective and this would happen all of the time - I returned it for a refund.

Since youv'e had the machine since May, I'd suggest that you blow out the cooling system (be sure to stop the fans from spinning - I use tooth picks). The oc might also have something to do with the high temperatures.

I'd also install the 01.00.10 BIOS update and activate the "full fans" (Fn+F10) before starting to play games that are GPU/CPU intensive.
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post #5 of 19
11/17/04 at 3:28pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Omaha
It basically means that your machine has reached "critical mass" and is about to melt down. Normally this happens after the machine has exceeded 72/73. My first 8790 was defective and this would happen all of the time - I returned it for a refund.

Since youv'e had the machine since May, I'd suggest that you blow out the cooling system (be sure to stop the fans from spinning - I use tooth picks). The oc might also have something to do with the high temperatures.

I'd also install the 01.00.10 BIOS update and activate the "full fans" (Fn+F10) before starting to play games that are GPU/CPU intensive.
Well like i said this was the first time it started happening with the flashing lights n all. I will run mobmeter and see what the temp gets too. My fans are clean, and spining, i can feel the cool air being sucked into the vents on all three bottom fans, iv also blown into them clearing any dust that may have been there. As far as the OC, its been pretty much this way before and havnt had this problem, I will revert back to stock spec's and see if that does the job, and work my way up to see a happy medium. I curently have the 01.00.10 bios, and have the fans reved up while i play. The lights flash from the get-go when i start the game. It doesnt crash or hang while playing. Altho when im done playin and turn off the notebooks, the fans still run, the air coming out is warm not hot, and when i pull the ac cord out they stop.
If i may ask, what spec's do you run your video so that i cant get an idea of what may work on my side if the OC is too high.

So order of biz.
1. Run Mobmeter while playin HL2
2. Turn down the OC spec's
3. Cry if the above doesnt work, and i have to send it in.
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post #6 of 19
11/17/04 at 3:58pm
I usually don't run games. Everything on my machine is "Stock".

I'd email Sager and get their take on this as the blinking lights and the fans that stay on following shut down was the reason that I returned my first Sager - They should not be doing this. Something must have "burned out" or has gone out of tollerance in your machine. Maybe it is just a bad temperature sensor, et al.

See that when this happens, if there are areas on the silver plated area that are extremely hot when the lights come on. I suspect that you will have a hot spot above the F2 key and another one between the F9 and F12 keys. If this is the case, it is not normal.

You might also try lifting the keyboard and seeing if there are any "dust bunnies" there. The "grid" under the key board is really a very big heat sync for the GPU, memory, and a lot of other things.
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post #7 of 19
11/17/04 at 4:04pm
I usually don't run games. Everything on my machine is "Stock".

I'd email Sager and get their take on this as the blinking lights and the fans that stay on following shut down was the reason that I returned my first Sager - They should not be doing this. Something must have "burned out" or has gone out of tollerance in your machine. Maybe it is just a bad temperature sensor, et al.

See that when this happens, if there are areas on the silver plated area that are extremely hot when the lights come on. I suspect that you will have a hot spot above the F2 key and another one between the F9 and F12 keys. If this is the case, it is not normal.

You might also try lifting the keyboard and seeing if there are any "dust bunnies" there. The "grid" under the key board is really a very big heat sync for the GPU, memory, and a lot of other things.
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post #8 of 19
11/19/04 at 4:35am
Thread Starter 

and after iv done the following...

Well as i said before..
"So order of biz.
1. Run Mobmeter while playin HL2
2. Turn down the OC spec's
3. Cry if the above doesnt work, and i have to send it in."

I ran Mobmeter, while playin HL2 and ran it at stock or slightly higher settings, and here is the result.

Temp 46c Settings 405/276.75
Temo 49c Settings 405/270
HL2 as before didnt lock up or have any glitches while playing. Altho the Lights still blink after the game has started and been running a few mins. Also when the notebook is turned off, the fans continue to run, and only stop when i unplug the AC, or press the power button to Re start the notebook.
Again this "blinking problem" only happens while i play HL2.. no other games do this.. doom3, far cry..ect. Now one would say, Well if everything else runs fine, then it must be the game... but the game is software, and Lights that blink are Hardware and are "Activated" by a sensor or some firmware on the notebook. I may be wrong, but i think thats how it works. As you can see by the temps i got while running the game, that is not really all that hot. Actualy sometimes when i turn on my notebook and run mobmeter from the get-go its about 50c untill i turn on the turbo fans. Any other ideas before i contact sager and get all pissy that i have to send this back to be fixed? It sucks if that has to happen, because im on the Road and not at home, and dont have access to the box the notbook came in, so shipping this wold be hard, plus spendy since id have to pay for a special box n packing not to mention insurance to sager. Am i missing anything? Yes airflow is fine, fans work, i have the newest bios, newest omega drivers, i run the game with the fans on high. bleh...
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post #9 of 19
11/19/04 at 12:27pm
I'd contact Sager. Something went wrong with the innards of the machine.
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post #10 of 19
11/19/04 at 1:49pm
Thread Starter 

will contact be made?

I used sagers email, since i remember before they prefer to have email help done first before you call them, ect.. so i emailed them my problem, and temp readings n such, waiting to hear back from them in the meanwhile i made a norton back up of my HD's just in case i do have to send them in... the wait is on.
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post #11 of 19
11/19/04 at 4:42pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostLou10
I used sagers email, since i remember before they prefer to have email help done first before you call them, ect.. so i emailed them my problem, and temp readings n such, waiting to hear back from them in the meanwhile i made a norton back up of my HD's just in case i do have to send them in... the wait is on.
Sager called me back, but the tech dude seemed to not know what the problem was, He said" Hello, this is sager calling you about a problem, what is the problem? I said well if you got my online feedback/email help question, then you should know, He said yes i have that, and your fans wont turn off?.. I said yes.. thats one of the problems, but what worries me most is the flashing lightes while playing, since iv been told thats a Overheating warning... He was silent for a bit and said ... Does the only happen with HL2? I said yes.. other games run fine and dont have this blinking problem. He said well this must be a HL2 problem being it doesnt occur on any other game... I said well isnt the flashing lights a bad sign.. like the notebook is overheating? He said no... but then went on to say sometimes the flashing lights were the wifi card being turned on, or mail.. I said not those flashing lights, the two next to the Harddrive activity light, He said.. yes that HD activity light will flash when being accessed... I said i know tht, but the Caps lock and numeral lock, (then explained what they looked like).. are the ones that are blinking... He said they shouldnt be doing that. DUH!... lol So i said, is that a warning sign that the board is too hot? he said No. WFT.. i said whats it suposto mean? He wasnt sure. I told him about the fans still running while i turned off the notebook, he said Well they are suposto run to keep the notebook cool.. i said thats fine, i understand how cars work with the fan still running while the car is turned off to cool down the radiator, but the computer is allready cool.. I told him to check the Temps that i wrote to them with and said , Thats not really hot at all, and by the time i turn off the notebook, the temp is 42'c, and that the fans shouldnt be running when i turn off the laptop at that point because, when i run any other game and turn off the notebook the fans stay off... I said that the only time the fans stay on is when the Flashing lights occur. I said i would do a video capture and email them the file of the blinking lights, He said ok, then said, Try running the game without turning on the fans at highspeed.... I did... Lights didnt come on, but the temp got to 56'c. This is a bit odd... So when the fans are turned on High they make the lights blink when the notebook is working hard? Doesnt sound right to me. What good does turning up the fans if they make my notebook overheat.. He said that if the notebook were to overheat, it would shut down... so if hes sayin the flashy lights are not an Overheat sign, what the hell is it? Bastards! Well time to turn on the fans and play the game so i can get the same conditions so the lights flash and email them the file. When i asked them to email so i had an address to email to, He said he didnt have access to email and that i should email them on my own behalf,... DO you know how much easyer it is to email a reply than it is to track down the correct email addy? techsagerBLAHBLAH BLAH@Blah.com ?
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post #12 of 19
11/19/04 at 4:57pm
Here's some stuff from my review of the original 8790 that I purchased in March and return for a full refund. Link: http://notebookforums.com/showthread...hts#post194453


Quote:
Originally Posted by krobotkin
@ G-Omaha

Ok dude, I one hour ago pleased my Clevo buddy to do some forced heat stress-testing for the D870P (8790). We wanted to see if we are able to reproduce the same behaviour/problems as you are encountering with your machine (BTW, we did the test via a telephone conferencing session and thus I could hear the soundings of the machine slightly too...). The 8790 used now for this test had a P4-C 3.4 GHz CPU assembled und two huge 80 GB disks inside running under RAID level 0.

My buddy fired up some huge stress testing app and closed the bottom fans of the 8790 completely with a cushion. The machine needed a very long period (we were waiting, waiting and waiting...) since it slowly heated up, but finally he/we could force it up until it reached 69°C degrees. He said that the cooling fans got some faster speed up (e.g. they rotated faster as usual...) but the noise hasn't got much louder as if the machine would perform on the 50°C/52°C. I too couldn't hear much more noise over the telephone line. Also note that the 8790 at 69°C here didn't throw on the CAPS and NUM lock lights as yours seem to do.

When he removed the cushion the temperature started to fall rapidly from 69°C, about ~9°C in say ~2-3 minutes to 60° and then further down...


Gary, I would say that your machine has some huge unnormal problems, since...

a) ...it shouldn't flash on the CAPS and NUM lock lights when on high heat...

b) ...it also should fast cool the machine down to normal parameters without making too much additional noise...

c) ...the cooling fans of the machine shouldn't run one hour after you shut down the system or something like that (e.g. what you reported above in this thread...).

Gary I think you should send the machine definitely back for an exchange, so you get another well behaving unit!!!


PS. I believe my Clevo buddy has now a burned cushion...
I think that you need to escalate this to the supervisor as the technician that you talked to may not have had a "clue". This "light sequence" is an indicator that there is a problem, weather it is a bad sensor or something else. It is NOT a problem caused by a game. Try a few other "burnin" type of software and see what happens.

Again, get with the supervisor and/or ask you reseller for assistance.
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post #13 of 19
11/19/04 at 5:26pm
oh yea and dont even mention overcl****ng, might void the warrenty....
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post #14 of 19
11/20/04 at 3:33am
Thread Starter 

Contact made!! woot n stuff

Below is the traded emails, after the phone call from sager. Read above if you missed out on that. Emails go in order from start to end...
BTW problem still not solved.

To sager:
I contacted sager, via webpage feedback support 11/19/04, and received a call from a person, I forgot to get his name. In my original response to sager I reported my problem, and I will also include the Just of what I said before below.

While Playing HL2, I noticed that the Caps Lock and Numeral Lock lights ( Next to the hard drive activity light) where blinking. This has never been a problem before. Iv played many different games Doom3, far cry ect and haven't had this problem with them. HL2 plays fine even with the blinking lights, but it occurred to me that that was an overheating signal. Also when I turn off the system the fans would stay running. The only way to turn them off was by unplugging the AC adapter or Powering the unit back up. I got online and tried different things to fix this problem with the sager forums that are out there. End result was to contact sager with the problem.

I have the most current BIOS

I use the newest Omega Video drivers

Video is at stock specs.. 405/270

I have WinXP home with sp2 installed.

When I play the game I run it with the fans on High by pressing the Fn+F10

While playing the game with the fans turned up high the lights will blink after a few mins of playing. When I quit the game to check the temp threw Mobmeter I get a temp of 46'c with the stock settings of 405/270 on the video. The machine isn't overheating by mobmeters temp reading. When I finally go to shut down the computer the temp is about 40-43'c, so its pretty much cool. The unit shuts down, but the fans continue to run. The fans are running even though the unit is not overheated. They continue to run until I unplug the AC adapter or Power the unit back up.

On saying that, while typing all this out, after making the videos, I tried turning down the fans via Fn+F10 and it didn't work, the fans stayed on high. By the time I finished writing this, the Lights stopped blinking, and I was able to press the Fn+F10 to turn the fans back down to low.

After talking to the sager tech guy, I explained the above to him and asked if the blinking lights were a Overheat signal, he said no. He said they should not be blinking, I said I would take a video capture and email it in so you could see it while playing the game, and after iv quit the game. You will see the lights blink as iv mentioned above. The tech guy wasn't sure why the lights were blinking. But did want me to try and run the game without turning the fans high via Fn+F10 and see what it does. I did, and also didn't not have the problems with the blinking lights, the temp did get to 57'c though , And when I turned off the machine the fans turned off.
So what does the Blinking lights mean? Is that an over heat signal?

Why do the fans continue to stay on, even though the unit is not overheating?(43'c isn't overheating, if so when I turn my unit on and go to windows, it gets to 50'c)

I would asume The unit is overheating because the fans stay on HIGH, or I have a bad sensor on the mobo.

So what's the fix on this?

From Sager:
Hi Louis, please try another version of KBC firmware.

Please download the attached file 879bv10.zip.
Unzip the file to your hard drive.
The file 879bv10.iso is the image of a bootable disk with all the files for updating the system BIOS.
Burn the 879bv10.iso to a CDR or CDRW disc.
Use the disc to boot the computer. Press Ctrl + C to quit flashing system BIOS.
At A:\>_ type h8-f2 to change the KBC firmware.
Then check the Fn+F10 and the LEDs

To sager:
Well i tryed what you said by changing the firmware, however i did notice when it finished, it said Old version. F2, new version F2. Id have to reboot right now to get the full version of the KBC firmware installed, but it seems that with the New bio's thats with the 879bv10 iso (That i allready had installed) may have installed the KBC f2 version allready? At anyrate, i flashed it, and rebooted, and turn the fans on High via Fn+F10 and started HL2, aprox 5 mins into the game, it started the whole flashy light deal again, When that happend i quit the game and pressed the Fn+F10 to turn off the fans, but they still remained on High... once the temp dropped from 56'c to 36'c i tryed it again, this time it turned the fans down. Is the mobo having a false alarm thinking that 56'c is too hot?
So.. whats next?
I may not be able to respond by phone, being i work from 530am-2pm and dont get home till 3pm. So if you email me i will respond when i get home. Im curently in aspen CO right now, so im an hour ahead of you.
Louis



So thats where we are for today folks. BTW the the heck was the KBC firmware? whats that controle? the fans? Stay tuned for more sager/louis fun. Thanks everyone for there imput =)
lou
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post #15 of 19
11/20/04 at 5:27pm
Yeah I had the same problem with my 8790 over heating (And I’m sure the problem is heat related), but my 8790 would go into overheat mode if I was just going into acrobat reader or any gaming at all (like EV NOVA, half life...). Everything is and was "stock" on my 8790. I gave sager an email stating the problem, and they told me to update my bios (which was all ready updated). I did and the only thing it seamed to fix was when the flash lights showed up and I shut my unit down the fans stopped running... I had other problems with my unit that the Ethernet port had also died, so I said basically, that they could look at the overheat problem while it was in the shop for the Ethernet problem (I had one more problem, and that was my wireless card seamed to have a limited range. I knew that could fix that one, but 8790 was going in anyways so I would let sager do it).

I sent my 8790 in and they fix both the wireless and the Ethernet problem, but then they called me up and said they couldn't find the overheating problem. I told them again how to get the problem to show up, yet this didn't surprise me much because I’m pretty sure that to fix the Ethernet problem a complete tear down and rebuild of the system was done. This might have meant a new motherboard or not (invoice says "repaired M/B L44"). I can believe that the overheat problem was magically fixed due to the other repairs...

I got my 8790 back from repairs, and so far no more problem, but I have yet to do any serous gaming. Now sometimes my screen won’t turn on, and I now have “void warranty removed” stickers on my 8790 that seem that they will fall off on there own accord… What’s up with that?
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post #16 of 19
11/23/04 at 1:41am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Halen
Yeah I had the same problem with my 8790 over heating (And I’m sure the problem is heat related), but my 8790 would go into overheat mode if I was just going into acrobat reader or any gaming at all (like EV NOVA, half life...). Everything is and was "stock" on my 8790. I gave sager an email stating the problem, and they told me to update my bios (which was all ready updated). I did and the only thing it seamed to fix was when the flash lights showed up and I shut my unit down the fans stopped running... I had other problems with my unit that the Ethernet port had also died, so I said basically, that they could look at the overheat problem while it was in the shop for the Ethernet problem (I had one more problem, and that was my wireless card seamed to have a limited range. I knew that could fix that one, but 8790 was going in anyways so I would let sager do it).

I sent my 8790 in and they fix both the wireless and the Ethernet problem, but then they called me up and said they couldn't find the overheating problem. I told them again how to get the problem to show up, yet this didn't surprise me much because I’m pretty sure that to fix the Ethernet problem a complete tear down and rebuild of the system was done. This might have meant a new motherboard or not (invoice says "repaired M/B L44"). I can believe that the overheat problem was magically fixed due to the other repairs...

I got my 8790 back from repairs, and so far no more problem, but I have yet to do any serous gaming. Now sometimes my screen won’t turn on, and I now have “void warranty removed” stickers on my 8790 that seem that they will fall off on there own accord… What’s up with that?
Yea WTF with the stickers comin off so easy? Not a good sign of quality. As you read on below, i have to send my baby in to be fixed/looked at. As far as my overheat problem, Its easy to for them to have happen for them too. Ill just include a note, sayin Play HL2 on my notebook for 10 mins and the lights will come on. Easy as that. wish me luck
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post #17 of 19
11/23/04 at 1:51am
Thread Starter 

RMA n stuff

This was there current email as of today.
"Hi Louis, according to temperature, the computer is not overheating. However, the blinking LED indicates the CPU cooling fans are not working properly. We need to check the CPU cooling fans for you.

Your RMA# is XXXXXXXXXX.

Please pack the computer with their original shipping box if possible, or to be placed inside the carrying bag of the system and packaged in a sturdy cardboard box with plenty of Styrofoam or other protective material surround the computer.

Please print your RMA number on the outside of the box next to the shipping label in LARGE print. Be sure to insure your shipment for the full value of your computer.

If the system is password protected, please provide the password to login your operating system.

Please include a written note describing the symptoms of your issue and when they occur. Please be as detailed as possible.

Please be sure to Back-up all of your personal data on your hard drive as Sager Computers will not be responsible for any lost data for any reason.

Please confirm your return address with a note.

Then please return it to:

Sager-Midern Computers
18005 Cortney Court
City of Industry, CA 91748
1-626-964-4849"

So since im on the road and not home, coming up with a Box to ship it in, will be a pain, I guess i will have to go to one of them postal anex places and get the full meal deal.. Box, Bubble rap, foam peanuts, and postage and Insurance... speakin of insurance... im sure thats gona cost me.. 3000 dollar notebook is going to cost some cash money to? im thinkin 30-40 bucks there... plus the shipping... 30 bucks plus the packaging 20 bucks... thats cash money from MY pocket for a defective unit Thats one check mark against sager.... i dont have a three checkmark rule, only two. They are halfway there to me never buyin a sager again. Unless they would consider an upgrade to the new 9870 or whatever it is id pay a few bones for that upgrade =) wont happen but i can wish.. so i will be sending this in via UPS ground on Wensday, and be comuterless for till i get it back ...... I think i need a tissue.
Lou
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post #18 of 19
11/23/04 at 11:18am
I highly recommend using the same double box that they shipped the laptop to you in.

Alternatively - (read the following list as "layers" or packaging)

* Laptop
* Plastic Sheet sealed to keep out moisture
* Bubble wrap (healthy dose)
* Peanuts
* Box #1
* More peanuts
* Paperwork
* Box #2
* Secure with generous amounts of tape
* LABEL with your RMA # all over the place

Now - I think they will ship back to you in a Sager packaging So you will have two of these boxes LOL
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post #19 of 19
12/14/04 at 2:08am
Thread Starter 

Problem Fixed

Well after all said and done, my unit is fixed. After having constant and non constant contact, sager recalled my unit back for repairs. They said that something was wrong with the unit and would need to look at it. So after payin for the boxes and foam, insurance, shipping.. 77 bucks later, it went back to sager via fed ex ground. I shipped it out nov 24th, and got it back Dec 9. They mailed it back 2nd day air. When i would call or email sager to find out the status on my unit, they were very slow to respond. Once they said everything was fixed, and it would be shipped out the following monday, It was friday when i found out all was done, I emailed them back to find out, the following.
What was wrong with the unit
Was the item,'s fixed, replaced, Or is this a Brand New unit.
Was a full format of the drives done,? If so are all the service packs and updated drivers installed.

Monday came and went and no responce to my email that i sent on friday about my unit. Tuesday came and i called as well as emailed them asking the same questions above about the unit. They responded by saying they needed my mailing address to mail the unit back to me, and also didnt respond to the questions that i asked. I found it very frustrating that they lost my shipping info that was included on a sheet of paper that had the shipping address as well as the problem with the unit as well as things i tryed to fix the problem. Also my address was on the shipping lable on the box i sent them. Had i NOT called them on monday, my unit would have STILL sat at sager. After dropping 3 grand on a notebook i would hope service would be top notch. I was wrong. I told them that i was happy with my performance of the unit i had, untill it broke, however i was very unhappy with the service i was givin, i also addressed, that my questions STILL were not answered. So i gave them my shipping address again and asked that my questions be answered. They replyed with tracking info, and the only question they answerd was, Motherboard Replaced.

So... if your lights are blinking and your temp is low, then you need to RMA that baby. Sager support should have been so much better. As of right now, would i ever buy another sager from sager? No. Do i love my sager? Yes... What a love hate relationship.
Lou
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