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Dell 600m vs 8600? Please help! (long post.. bear with me)

post #1 of 37
11/18/04 at 9:24pm
Thread Starter 
Hi everyone. :> I'm new to the forums, but I've been reading everything obsessively for the past three days or so (I have dark circles under my eyes from staying up reading the forums ) and I'd really love to ask everyone's opinion about this.

I've been looking into a laptop for some time now, much to my boyfriend's dismay, I might add. I'm somewhat poorer than I have been in the past, so I'm on a small budget. Still, I'm willing to empty my reserves for a notebook, if it's the right notebook. My bf however, thinks its a waste of money (more on this in a moment).

Originally I had come across some averatec notebooks, and was amazed by the low low price and their lovely light weights. Still, i'd never heard of that brand, so I was a bit wary... not to mention they're so vague when describing the specs o_O; Not to mention the complaints on keyboard and battery life.. ick

Then I wandered across this forum and i'm so glad i did!!

For my desktop machines, I usually try to stay away from pre-built puteys, like Dell and Compaq etc.. but I realize now that lappies are completely different. I've been reading the reviews and comments regarding the dell machines, and I'm pretty excited.

Now, the main problem I had with the averatec computers is that their video capabilities were lacking. I'm confident with installing desktop components, but laptop is so foreign to me. This will be my first notebook experience :> So i'd rather get a lappy that is already loaded the way I want it.. with possibility of upgrading if I feel comfortable with it in the future.

The Dell 8600 has really caught my eye, especially because of the ATI 128mb 9600 vidcard I do love to game, and it would be a boon from the heavens if I could manage to do so on the laptop. My boyfriend has been getting into WoW lately, and I'm sure if I get a laptop that can handle WoW, I can tempt him and lower his resistance to me spending money on a lappy :P His job is late at nights and is like 75% waiting around doing nothing. The work computers are poop also, so he can only play graphically weak mmo like Ragnarok Online. If he could play WoW, I'm sure he will shutup about me wasting money. :>

Now here comes the problems. While the 8600 looks great and wonderful, and I've heard some ppl comment that they could run WoW easily on it, it is a bit heavier than I was looking for. I'm a small girl, and I do plan to take the laptop with me to university a few days a week, to type papers between classes, take notes during classes. Not to mention I have a bit of a back ache problem... I do drive, so i'm hoping that would aleviate some of the carrying issues.. but still, the weight is making me somewhat hesitant on purchasing this wonderful notebook. My boyfriend is considerably larger than I am but I think even he would be annoyed with this weight.. although manageably so.

Thats what brings me to the 600m... It is lighter than the 8600 and cheaper too. It is smaller, but I don't mind screensize all that much. The main issue lies in the video card. Would the video card that comes with 600m be able to play WoW at medium or low settings even? It just needs to be playable without jerky movement. Enough to get my boytoy his MMO fix ;P


Heres a comparison of the specs from Dell's wepage:

i8600
Intel Celeron M processor 340 (1.50 GHZ/400mhz FSB)
15.4in WXGA ( There wasn't an option for WSXGA+ )
WinXp home (i'm going to reformat and install XP pro when I get it :T)
512MB ram 2 dimms
128 ATI radeon mobility 9600Pro Turbo
24XCD-rw/DVD combo drive
60GB HDD (Speed unstated so it's either the 4200rpm or 7200rpm :T)
72WHr battery
Dell Wireless 1450 Internal Wireless 802.11 a/b/g 54mps
Price: 1,660/ Currently reduced to $1,108 (!!!)
weight: 6.9lbs

i600M
Celeron M Processor 340 (1.5Ghz/400MHz FSB)
14.1in XGA
ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 32 MB DDR
512MB ram 2 dimms
40GB HDD
24X Cd-rw/DVD combo drive
6-cell Litium Ion Battery 53WHr
Dell Wireless 1450 Internal Wireless 802.11a/b/g 54mps
Price: 1,470/ Currently reduced to 1,009
weight: 4.98lbs

When I look at it like this, the 8600 looks like the better deal, since it is only 99 dollars more, for a better video card and larger HDD. Not to mention a larger, widescreen. However, the 8600 is two lbs heavier than the 600m..

Okay!!! *takes a breath* NOw that i've talked your ears off... this is where you guys come in. Which is the best buy for me, in your opinion?

The main important factors are this:
1) Must be able to play WoW decently (low settings is fine)
2) Able to be carried around by both my boyfriend and I. Take into consideration I weigh only 90lbs, with slight back problems.
3) The more durable lappy, since it will be exchanged from me to my bf back and forth a few times.

I guess I want to know if the two lb difference is that noticeably huge? Also, the vid card is better on the 8600, and probably the better deal moneywise, but is the radeon 9000 on the 600m also viable for game play?

Also, this is my first notebook, and I have heard some rumors(?) bantered around by my friends who are anti-lappy..
1) Laptops, despite what the specs say, are always slower than desktops so it's not worth the money

Also, i'm pretty picky about keyboards... which of two models has the better keyboard? I dislike that weird cushy feeling when I press down some dell desktop keybaords.. so I'm hoping against hope their lappys dont have the same feel.. I like the clicky spring of the old style keyboards =) I guess it's no wonder i've used mine so long.. it has holes in the space bar and all the letters are rubbed off the keys ;x!


Something I'm curious about... would it be better to buy the cheaper models with only 256mb ram and then upgrade the ram myself? Since the 512mb rams are two 256 dimms.. they will take up both available slots, so i'd end up having to buy two 512mb dimms if i ever wanted to upgrade to 1gb ram? How much does a stick of lappy ram cost? And is it as easy to install as it is on desktops?

Also, I've noticed that these deal ones dont come w/the choice of dif processor or displays... like WSXGA+ for the 8600... I'm pretty sure if I go through the notebooks section instead of this deal section I could build one with that option, but not sure how that would effect the price. Would it be worth it, or should I just sick with the WXGA?

Also, i notice the pentium is more expensive than celeron. Whats the main difference there?
=)

THanks for bearing through this whole long crazy post. I'm really obsessing over purchasing one!! Let me know asap XD I want to jump on these deals at Dell.. dunno how much longer it will last!
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post #2 of 37
11/18/04 at 9:45pm
That's a very well-thought out and researched post. I'm glad you took time to think about what would be best for you and your boyfriend.

First: I don't know about WoW, so I'll let someone who does know something about that game addresss this question.

2. I sometimes feel that the 8600 is heavy on the shoulder (if using the carrying strap), but holding it in my hand is not a problem at all. Charger, bag, mouse, mousepad, accessories combined, the total weight shouldn't be over ten pounds. That's essentially ten pounds on one shoulder... I don't find it bad for three minutes, but when I'm walking for ten minutes, it gets annoying. The weight of the machine is actually quite light... I don't find it to be a nuisance at all.

3. The 8600 is a very durable laptop by most standards. Yes, some will fault its creaking hinges (mine creaks only if I abruptly move it, not if I start moving it slowly) and others will find its construction to be shoddy, but I'm very impressed with mine. It has survived a fall from about three feet (granted it was in a computer bag) and I can't that there is anything wrong with it at all.

4. Laptops generally are somewhat less productive than the best desktops. However, if you're not a huge gamer, a serious movie-editing person, or someone who benchmarks everything, you really won't notice a big difference between a similarly equipped laptop and desktop (in my opinion). I think my 8600 is actually somewhat faster than my 4600 (specs in sig). I feel that I can run Pro/E (a graphics-intensive CAD program) on my machine faster than it can be run on the UNIX workstations with the only drawback being extra heat.

5. Keyboards -- mine has been very good. Very little mushy-ness. At the same time, I'm a relatively light typer -- I don't mash my fingers into the keyboard so I don't feel all the imperfections. From what I can tell if I do, however, is that my keyboard is pretty solid except for two areas.

6. It would be cheaper to buy RAM elsewhere. However, know how much RAM you want... if you start off with a 256 stick and want 1 GIG, you'll end up with an extra 256 with no use (other than sell it). RAM usually isn't too bad... I haven't bought any, so again, I'll let someone else address that one.

7. I would suggest customizing the laptop a bit more. The Celeron processor isn't quite as refined as the Dothan is, so if possible, I'd go that route. Might tack on a little extra to the cost, but again in my opinion, I feel that it's entirely worth it.

Good luck in your search!
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post #3 of 37
11/19/04 at 1:31am
In addition to the above, I own both an 8600 and a 600M, and both of these units are fairly new.

They are both alot alike. The difference is the 8600 is heavier because it has the wide screen, and it has multimedia buttons atound the keyboard. Also more blue trim. the 600M has the Radeon 9000 but the 8600 has the go5200 and they both seem to perform on a very comparative level. Both are 64 MB cards, dont get any less like the 32 MB or your game eprformance will be hampered.

Other than what I noted above, there isnt any other difference to me. I am led to believe the 600M might be your cup of tea since its lighter. I carry my 8600 around alot but its no burden to me as I am over 230 pounds but the 600 is noticably lighter.

One thing I would like to mention however, I would not own a notebook with less than a sxga screen. When you get those deals your getting just an xga screen but the sxga allows you to set your resolutions to a much higher level and looks soooo much better than just an xga. Its an upgrade that is more than worth the extra $49. Remember, you can always add ram, and a faster hard drive later. But the display is something permanent, and leaves alot of people regretting theirs.
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post #4 of 37
11/19/04 at 1:51am
I think you should take into consideration battery life too. The 8600 gets 4.5 hours to the the 600m's 3.5 hours. Something that really matters if you're on the go a lot.

To test the weight, I think you should weight something that is 5.5 lbs and something that is 7.0 lbs and try carrying that around and putting in yoru backback to get a good idea of the weight. I don't find the 8600 heavy at all but then again I'm 150lbs and a guy. The 600m is only about 1.5 lbs lighter.

And you don't need to bring all the accessories with you everywhere you go. The 8600 has more battery life so you dont need the plug as much. One thing to keep in mind is heat. I had an 8600 and it ran hot and I had to keep a book between my legs and th enotebook. Since the 600m is smaller, I'd imagine it runs just as hot.

The 9600 is a MUCH better card than the 9000. The 9000 is 3 generations old now wheras the 9600 is only about 1 generation old. The 9600 will run most games you throw at it pretty well at decent settings. The 9000 will perform adequately. Remember when gaming, it sucks battery life and takes a lot of cooling too since gaming is so intensive. World of Warcraft ran really well on mind (be sure to get extra ram somewhere)

Its a hard choice but I recommend the 8600. Its not that much more expensive (maybe 50 or 100 with comparable specs) and you get a lot more. A much wider screeen to watch movies. Probably a more sturdy build. More battery life. A much better 3d card. If you're going for an all in one solution, the 8600 is the best fit.

However, if you really want to game, you might want to just specialize and get a nice pc for gamer (cheap XP Athlon will still run very, very well) with a good 3d card (a 9800 pro is under 150 from newegg for some omodels) and it will do much better for games. Then you can just get the 700m, the sexiest of the notebooks :P which is more speciailzed for mobilty and believe me. The 600m is the lighter end of the all-in-one solutions but it does so at less screen size, worst battery life, and worst 3d card. Not a tradeoff a gamer should make.
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post #5 of 37
11/19/04 at 1:53am
i agree with illegalopertion. get a better screen. you can get good deal on rams and hd from newegg.com. but screen costs a lot to replace and it is wise to get the best one when you order your laptop.

i never owned a desktop (but i do use one at work now). i have always used laptop for last 12 years. if you like to play games a lot, desktop might fit to you. but if you are talking about more productive for work and for school, laptop is the best option for you.

regarding about 8600 vs 600m, I own a 600m and I am very happy of that. you can see the config of my laptop from my sig. I would get a 8600 (but it is another story why i did not) because of the bigger screen and better video card.

Since you said you are 90 lbs, and the 8600 is almost 7lbs. Adding with the power plug, mouse, and other stuff, it could be nearly 8lbs, and that would be nearly 10% of your body weight. it might be tough for you to carry around.
on the other hand, i believe your bf would be much happier to use the 8600 based on the bigger screen and better video card.

btw, not sure if the link work,
http://catalog.us.dell.com/CS1/cs1pa...538&l=en&s=dhs
it has the option to upgrade the screen to WSXGA+ for 50 more.

make sure one thing is... when you customize your laptop,

go from

www.dell.com --> home & home office --> select "notebook starting at $599" icon
--> select "start shopping notebooks" icon --> select "choose inspiron 8600" icon
--> select "customize it" icon

the reason you cannot find out the option to upgrade your 8600's video card is because you selected the dell "pre-configure" template.
i learned it in a hardway because i never knew 600m has 64m video card, and i only went to the "pre-configure" template and it only had the 32m ram.

anyway, good luck in your find. i believe you would be happy using either one.
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post #6 of 37
11/19/04 at 5:14am
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys!! Everything is really helpful. I might be leaning toward the 8600 at this point. The price difference isn't that big, and I think the widescreen would be wonderful. I'm going to weigh some of my text books and see how those compare to the laptop weights..

As for configuring the 8600, depending on what notebook ram costs at newegg, I will either go for 256mb and buy a 512mb stick later, or go for one stick of 512mb and go for another 512 later.. :x I'll definately spring for the better screen. I hope I can read it LOL~ My bf has way better eye sight than I do :> But I'm blind or anything >_>;

Hm.. What is the difference between a Pentium M processor and a Celeron M processor? I'm not too sure what the difference is, aside from the price. Thats pretty much the last factor before I order the i8600 ^.^ I'm hoping the weight wont be too bad.. I will only be carrying it a few minutes (5-10minutes)to class from the car.. and then the rest of the time will be on my lap or desk. The only problem is sometimes I find even my backpack with textbooks is already a nuisance :x Maybe I should join a gym and buff up so I can carry it around like a feather !! At this point, I'm almost willing to say i'd rather just bear with the weight and have the lappy. ~ I just want to make sure it wont deter me from actually putting it to good use. I suppose if anything else, I can bench press my lappy if I get bored hahaha. Or I can get one of those backpacks with lil wheelies on em.. ;P

I'm finally warming my bf up to the idea of owning the notebook. I told him about it, and that it would be able to play WoW... and he asked me about it later on if I really wanted it. He even said if I financed it he would maybe pay for it muahaha. Payback for me buying him his desktop I hope :3 Ahh gotta love computers for gifts <3 They are the bestest ever!!

Now if I can only learn the difference between Pentium and Celeron, I'd be on my way to the checkout page xD

Thanks again for all of your help! I'm finding these forums quite comfy :P
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post #7 of 37
11/19/04 at 5:22am
all i know about the Pentium M and Celeron M is Pentium M is a latest CPU for laptop. Celeron M is slower than Pentium. Also, Pentium M has 2m cache vs Celeron M has x (less.. i do not know the figure. could be only 512k). more cache in the CPU performances much better. (faster?)

again, i do not know much about CPU. Ppl say P(M) is as fast as P4 on the desktop.

may be some of the folks here would be able to explain more.

i am glad you are going for 8600. I missed the chance to get the 8600 with $750 off coupons about 3 weeks ago. I quickly ordered then 600m and upgraded some of the hardwares and warranty and use the coupon.

good luck and keep us posted. i am sure both of you and your brother would love the laptop.

btw, my 600m is a 14.1 SXGA+ with 32m rams. I wish I got the 15.4 WSXGA+ with 128m. i do not play games on my 600m or no game at all. Well, i take it take. I might want to play Ms Pacman on my laptop but i guess it does not require even 16m video card for that anyway.

have fun

btw, if you have a Pentium M Processor 725 and above with Intel Wireless card, your laptop will be an offical "Centrino" laptop. it is the latest technology of the laptop.

http://www.intel.com/products/notebo...obiletech+pmp&
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post #8 of 37
11/19/04 at 5:45am
Thread Starter 
Ah! My boyfriend not my brother LOL~! It's our 4 year anniversary today actually.

I heard about that 750 off coupon and was so sad I missed it!!

What is the benefit of having an official centrino laptop? o_O

And.. is there a big difference between the intel wireless card and the dell wireless card? I just chose the dell because it offered a/g/b instead of only g/b o_O; Or am I misinformed about something?^-^ I'm not too familiar with wireless, but I know my university campus has it, along with some starbucks around the area etc.

=)
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post #9 of 37
11/19/04 at 6:51am
Don't worry about the 750 off coupon. Dell just had as good a sale on refurbished laptops that are already discounted. 500 off + 75 more + 100 dollar coupon. I got a very good laptop for that deal.

Do not get an abg card. a is an outdated standard that is being phased out. b is an older wireless stnadard that is about 11mbps and has good range. g has about the same range and 54mbps transfer. However, my campus never ever exceed 11mbps so I just suggest saving some bucks and getting a b card (maybe a b/g if you really want to plan for the future, its only 10 bucks more).

Centrino is just a marketing fad. It just means your wireless card, processor, and motherboard or all intel low-power consuming stuff. Not a big deal.
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post #10 of 37
11/19/04 at 7:13am
Thread Starter 
I read somewhere on this forum that the a/g/b cards were more versatile in that the a could help cut down on interference sometimes o-o;

The choices for wireless card I have for the i8600 are:
FREE! Intel® PRO/Wireless 2100 Internal Wireless (802.11b, 11Mbps)
FREE! Intel® PRO/Wireless 2200 Internal Wireless (802.11 b/g, 54Mbps)
FREE! Dell® Wireless 1350 Internal Wireless (802.11b/g, 54Mbps)
[For $10] Dell® Wireless 1450 Internal Wireless (802.11a/b/g, 54Mbps)

I just thought the a/g/b would be good since it covers all the bases? ;x and it was ten dollars O_O cuz theres a -39$ instant rebate on it. Are the intel cards better?


I'm still debating between the Pentium M and Celeron M... The pentium M seems to have more options for different speeds of processor... The celeron is slower I guess but its cheaper too hmm.. I wonder if the difference between a Celeron M 340 (1.5ghz) and a Pentium M 725 (1.6aghz <-- whats the A stand for?) is noticeable?

The price difference atm is ~100$ between the P(M) 725 1.6Aghz WSXGA+ and C(M) 340 1.5ghz WSXGA+ with the latter being the cheaper one.

Hmmmmmmm.. I'll probably end up going with the Pentium afterall.. but i'd still like to KNOW why specifically :>

The way I have it in my shopping cart atm is this:
i8600
pentium M 725
1.6Aghz
WSXGA+
256mb RAM<-- gunna upgrade it via newegg purchasing ;p
30gb HDD<--- my desktop can store all my anime
Dell® Wireless 1450 Internal Wireless (802.11a/b/g, 54Mbps)
ATI mobility Radeon 9600proturbo 128mb
1 yr lmtd warranty, 1yr mail-in service, 1yr tech support
1 yr complete care coverage
SubTotal=1,377
Tax= ~108.93
Total=1,485.93
Free Shipping promotion atm ! WOO! (free 2nd day shipping on all Inspiron lappys yay! )

The total did come out to a bit more than I was looking to spend, simply because of looking at Averatec lightweight models early on.. They're so darn CHEAP too @_@.. but their vid card and stuff guh.. This isn't including the extra ram i'll be purchasing via newegg either :x I know, I know-- I'm a cheapskate :s I'm strapped for cash atm but I want want WANT (i repeat WANT) a lappy XD I am completely FIENDING for one :T This forum doesn't help either! I BLAME YOU ALL!!

It would be considerably cheaper if I chose to go with Celeron M processor, and take out the complete care stuffs... :X but I am SUPER paranoid I'm going to drop this thing. Looking down the road, i'm scared the 1 year will run out before anything bad happens.. and just my luck it'll break the second warranty is up :T orrrr I wont need to call upon the mail-in service at all and this is wasted money etcetc. All fears from my cheapskate side piping up... but still I'll go with safety ;x I did start drinking coffee lately after all...

Once again I'd like to thank you all for your loverly help! I'll be purchasing it first thing in the morning, when I clear it with my bf.. he's sleeping atm. ( I should be too >_>)

Once again I've stayed up monstrously late in order to READ about the laptop. Hopefully sometime soon i'll own this thing and not have to worry about it anymore.. I'm such a worrywart :T

Please please please fill me in on anything you guys see fit before i place my order in the morning :3 I'd hate for me to have missed something.

Things I'll need to buy after this include more ram from newegg.. possibly one of those desk thingies for notebooks.. like that foldy one.. um.. i saw it posted around here SOMEWHERE but it looked neato-torpedo. Mousey!! DEFINATELY! a mousey... (any recommendations? optical, wireless or otherwise?)

I know, I love to whore all your attentions :P But please do help me where you see fit, and I'll disappear and stop annoying you guys when this ordeal is over... maybe. nyahah
=\ maybe u're stuck with me

scary.
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post #11 of 37
11/19/04 at 9:19am
Quote:
I know, I love to whore all your attentions :P But please do help me where you see fit, and I'll disappear and stop annoying you guys when this ordeal is over... maybe. nyahah
Pleasae dont hesitate to use our past experiences for your benefit. For many of us in here has had multiple notebooks and it took several tries before we finally got it right. This is a substantial investment for you, and this unit will be a part of you for a long time to come. There is nothing worse than spending $1,500 on a notebook and then later have reservations about the purchase.

You have got a very nice system configured. The Pentium M is much better than the Celeron for your games, that paticular video card blows mine away, I am satisfied with mine though at 64 MB because it plays all games I throw at it with very decent frames per second.


Hard drives, memory, batteries and CD drives all snap in place without much effort.
Video cards and displays don't. You have a base system configured that I can add nothing to now, I would go for it. Just remember that the 8600 is a desktop replacement, it will be heavier and sometimes awkward to carry around compared to lighter/thinner notebooks.
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post #12 of 37
11/19/04 at 9:51am
don't get the Celeron M, you said you liked to game, games will run slow and horribly compared to a Pentium M chip.

Spend the extra 50 and get the Pentium M chip. You'll need it for your games. Celeron's can't even hack it when it comes to games.
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post #13 of 37
11/19/04 at 10:43am
Being a student, you may want to try configuring it on their education site for an extra % discount.
If you already ordered it, you may be able to get it by calling up I think.
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post #14 of 37
11/19/04 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xarthan
don't get the Celeron M, you said you liked to game, games will run slow and horribly compared to a Pentium M chip.

Spend the extra 50 and get the Pentium M chip. You'll need it for your games. Celeron's can't even hack it when it comes to games.
I agree 100%. The Centrino solution (Dothan, i855mp and either the Dell or Intel wireless card) is fantastic! Great battery life and performance when you are on wireless and/or on battery, while at the same time, awesome gaming performance w/ the 9600 and Wide Super Extended Graphics Array display. It's pretty light for a desktop replacement solution as well. I have no reservations recommending the 8600. I;m so glad I chose it.
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post #15 of 37
11/19/04 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bangle
Ah! My boyfriend not my brother LOL~! It's our 4 year anniversary today actually.

=)
Happy anniversary to you 2. hehe.. i must be too tired of typing "brother" rather than "boyfriend".
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post #16 of 37
11/19/04 at 4:12pm
I just wanted to chime in with one thing. I just got my 8600 last week, replacing my IBM T40 ( probably slightly lighter than the 600m ) Now Im weird about my laptop bags, my IBM was in a Clive Travel bag ( http://www.clivebags.com/11201.html )

My 8600 would not fit in it, so I went with a Dickies Deluxe DJ Bag
( http://www.yakpak.com/catalog/partde...px?PartNo=6168 )

Granted I still need to hit the fabric stores and get some padding with this thing, but my 8600 feels a LOT lighter in that bag, almost easier to carry than the clive bag. While I will let you make the decision on what to cart yours around, but the right bag can help.
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post #17 of 37
11/19/04 at 4:16pm
Pentium m has over twice the l2 cache 2mb, which is probably more important to speed than anything. I believe the celeron only has 512kb of cache (i'm not sure) but it slows down things immensely. To make things to you more clear, the 1.5ghz pentium m runs about as fast as a 2.4, 2.5 ghz Pentium 4 and the biggest difference between the two is that the 1.5 ghz pentium m has twice the cache (P4's only have 1 meg).
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post #18 of 37
11/19/04 at 4:37pm
I found this post elsewhere on the forums, might help..

http://notebookforums.com/showpost.p...2&postcount=14
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post #19 of 37
11/19/04 at 5:50pm
yep, i would get 1x512 rather than 2x256. but again, i got the 2x256 from the free upgrade (save some $$)

just upgraded to the 4 yrs warranty with complete care. they had to charge me 628 for the full price and refund back the 260 (my original 2yrs at home service).

well, don't feel too comfortable for being charged full price and credit $$. but dell is a big company, if things screw up, i will just call my cc to disput it or call dell again.

just need to keep my eyes on the cc bill for sure
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post #20 of 37
11/19/04 at 6:19pm
If you do go for the 600m be sure to get the 64 MB Option
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