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"lagging" problem

post #1 of 52
12/1/04 at 12:29pm
Thread Starter 
Hi,
a weird problem has recently started to occur on my computer. I have the latest bios and the latest omegadrivers. When I'm playing random games, such as HL2, EQ2, or Eve online, after a while the game, or actually the whole computer, starts "lagging". I'm not talking about network lag, but about a huge slow down in the performance of the laptop for approximately 10-15 secs, when the games go down from 50-60 fps to about 5-10. It is extremely annoying and I've tried all possible ways to solve it.
At the beginning I thought it was NAV 2005 what was causing this slow-down, so I uninstalled it completely and now I'm using Nod32 antivirus instead. The problem is still there.
I tried to figure out if it was a specific program to make the computer lag, so every time the problem occurred, I checked with wintasks which running program ate most cpu and memory. It seems like in these 10-15 secs, the system itself starts abusing the CPU, making everything else go very slow.
Also, it rarely occurs when I've just turned on the computer, so it also may be on overheating problem. I just cleaned the vents a couple of weeks ago, so the air flow is ok. Maybe that now the room is heated, the lappy feels overheating more than usually.

Has anybody ever had a similar problem? Should I just format everything and reinstall a fresh winxp from scratch? I'd do it without hesitating if the winxp installation wasn't such a pain, with a specific order for drivers and other issues.

Thx.
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post #2 of 52
12/1/04 at 3:58pm
Ciao,

Have you cleaned the machine sich you initially received it. I do this monthly and use compressed air. I use toothpicks to preent the fans from spinning when I inject the air into the fan chamber. Also, lift off the keyboard and blow out any junk that may have built up there (release latches are above the F5, F7/F*, F12/Prt Sc, and Num Lock - careful about the cable). The area under the keyboard is part of the GPU's cooling system.
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post #3 of 52
12/1/04 at 5:15pm
Thread Starter 
Actually I have a lot of crap under my keyboard. What do you mean for lift the keyboard? Do you mean I have to detach every button one by one? I already lost my right CTRL by doing that . Is there a civilized way of lifting the keybaord?
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post #4 of 52
12/1/04 at 7:58pm
If you look at the gap between the keyboard and the silver bezel piece you will see the tabs where I indicated. Simply depress the keys (gently) and push the tabs towards the rear of the machine until the keyboard is released. I use a small screwdriver for this; however a flat piece of wood or plastic works equally well.

Once the keyboard has been fully released. Gently pull it up and forward from the back end to the front.
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post #5 of 52
12/1/04 at 8:00pm
Forgot to mention - the tabs move from front to rear - not top to bottom.

When done with the cleaning, place the keyback in position and gently "pop" it down so that the tabs re-engage. Sometimes the tab on the left is a bit stubborn.
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post #6 of 52
12/1/04 at 8:30pm
Extremly weird reading your topic...is it as it had been my own :P

i have EXACT same problem....ive had the laptop for about a year now and this problem started like 3 weeks ago. I never cleaned it...so ill try that right away! although my laptop is on top of 4 plastic thinghies so that it elevates laptop about 2cm.(better airflow)

Anyways....now that im already posting ill write what i have done trying to prevent it and my result after cleaning the laptop(ill post later). I dont have any compressed air, but i should manage without it...right? ...can i use vacumcleaner?

Problem:
I noticed this like 3 weeks ago when i was playing worldofwarcraft ....about every 5 min or something the comp get superslow and choppy and it last like 10-30 secs... actually it was not so very bad in wow...do i did not bother to much with it, i was guessing the norton was to blame.

Some days later i played warcraft3 and it had a huge! diffrence, it got like 10x more choppy and it lasts for like 45secs.... so i uninstalled antivirus and firewall...did not help at all.... then i run "msconfig" and disabled all programs at startup...did not help anything not even 0.1%. I really started to get annoyed now since im a computer geek and i keep my computers very clean and i know what im doing. So i kinda gave up and formated, i installed sound and omegadrivers then i installed warcraft3 to test.... and i still got the freakin choppy thinghy....my friends suggestions are the raid ....but since ive used the laptop for a year with raid i cant understand how that can be it...

i can alt tab from game into windows...and start explorer or whatever and do stuff and then i cant notice anything but once in the game its like i was forcing halflife15 to run on my sager8790.

maybe a bad example...but this is how it feels...--->
start a game
alt tab
start winrar and start unpacking 10 things at same time....feel free to pack something also :P
alt tab back into the game
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post #7 of 52
12/1/04 at 10:40pm
Thread Starter 
exactly. The only thing that could have survived a format in your case is the new bios (if you upgraded it). I'm starting to think it's the bios that is doing weird stuff since my computer never ever showed similar problems, and I've been running farcry at max settings for hours, and the lappy got painfully hot, but it never slowed down.

Let's see if we can figure out what it is.
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post #8 of 52
12/1/04 at 10:41pm
Thread Starter 
Forgot to mention that I cleaned under the keyboard, but there was basically no crap under it, so I guess it won't change anything.
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post #9 of 52
12/2/04 at 5:34am
Well....this problem started like 3 weeks ago for me....and i never did anything to bios before yesterday, then i updated it with one i found on this board.
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post #10 of 52
12/2/04 at 1:33pm
Thread Starter 
Ok I guess it's not bios then.

Is it possible that some recent winxp update did this? It's the only reasonable explanation I can find for a problem that started in synchrony for both me and you..

Can it also be the average temperature in the rooms that are heated during winter and therefore the computer heats a little bit more than usual? I don't think it would be that influent, but I'm just guessing.



This problem makes gaming absolutely hateful, and I'd like to solve it as fast as possible.

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post #11 of 52
12/2/04 at 1:46pm
umm
when does it happen?
If I remember correctly EQ2 has a Memory leaking problem. As for the rest you've run all spyware/malware and Virus detection programs?
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post #12 of 52
12/2/04 at 6:23pm
Thread Starter 
I don't think it's a matter of virus/spyware because I used NAV2005 to scan my system before uninstalling it and now I"m using nod32 2.0. I also use Kerio firewall, and I checked my computer with ad-aware, spybot and spy-sweeper without any results. I also never use internet explorer or outlook so I'm less vulnerable to stuff that exploits ms programs.

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post #13 of 52
12/2/04 at 6:39pm
ok...ive done some more testing...
im 95% sure it is the temprature, but something else is wrong since this has never been a issue before.

- i lifted up keyboard and cleaned the little dust that was there
- unscrewed the memmory and? gpu cover under the laptop and checked for dust and stuff

i run a small program called Mobmeter it does not need install or anything....but it can show tempratures... it can only detect 1 temp sensor on my sager8790 (is there only one?) and my comp in idle is exactly at 50Celcius.

When i start for example Warcraft3 it jumps to 64C in matter of like 10 secs.... and when i start playing it jumps up to 67-70 pretty fast.
Ive tested like 3-5 times now and it seems that at 68C the laptop becomes unstabile...i may get a complete freeze that last like 10 secs
(this is a new thing...this started happening after i updated bios yesterday)

When the temp reaches 69-70C i get the "laggy" thinghy again and it also the machine may crash completly (happened once....also after the new bios)

I dont know if the temprature that mobmeter checks is GPU or CPU....or something else....and i also dont know if it is at the core or somewhere else.....also dont know if it is +/- anything (anyone have info on this)
( i can host/mail mobmeter it if someone wanna test it )

The weird part is: my room is not warmer then it usally is. The laptop is on a computerdesk elevated on 4 small plastic things to get more airflow under...
Ive had this problem for 3 weeks now...the bios update i did yesterday.
I tried formating and it did not help at all....
i use omega drivers...so does alot of else people, ive also always used omega without problems. Im running dual screen, this i also have used for a very long time without problems.

What ill try now: (posted in the order ill test)
Start the laptop and flip it over to check if all fans are working
posting this on another forum (nerd forum in my country :P)
Testing without dual screen (just normal)
Testing with standard drivers
Formating and reinstall again, this time without raid on...just normal 2x 60gb

If i HAD to guess what was wrong i would have guessed santaclaus came and gave my GPU a electric shock and maybe it unstabile. But my guess is that the GPU or Motherboard is in fact damaged/broken, i dont understand how it could have happened. I have not touched my machine it has been same spot for months, ive used external mouse,keyboard,screen so i have almost not touched it at all. So i still cant belive some hardware just died...

I have no ideas else then those i listed on how i can find my problem and solve it. Anyone have any good ideas ? :=) I really need help and so does Psicho :/ someone wanna give us a early christmas suprise with some clever ideas ?
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post #14 of 52
12/2/04 at 7:14pm
Thread Starter 
it's not the raid, I didn't touch it at all. It may be temperature, since there problems don't occur as soon as I turn the game on, but after a while, when the heat grows up to a certain (high) point. I'll try to check the temperature of the lappy while I'm playing and see if I find a correlation (even if it won't necessarily prove "causation")
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post #15 of 52
12/3/04 at 6:27am
I formated and i still got the problem...so i guess it cant be winupdate.
My problem started about 3 weeks ago...around the start of WoWbeta(if u know what it is) when did ur "lagging" start ? Im giving up really soon and im about to send the computer to repair. And that will take probaly some time and i really dont wanna send my laptop away
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post #16 of 52
12/3/04 at 1:35pm
Thread Starter 
Played Eve online for a couple of hours yesterday, but this time I did everything possible to cool the lappy. Raised it to 2cm above the table and plugged in an external usb "vent" to blow air on the keyboard. Looks like it didn't overheat this time and I got no lagging problems.
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post #17 of 52
12/3/04 at 2:23pm

Gotta be the heat...

After reading nobrains post about temps getting over 65-70C I'm thinking that extreme temps are the issue here.

I think that MobileMeter measures CPU temp not GPU temp. I'm not aware of a GPU temp reading utility. Besides, I think that GPU heat failure results in graphic anomolies and not a loss of overall system stability like CPU temp issues cause, IMHO.

Aren't the fans supposed to kick in and keep it under 60. Even when extreme gaming at high resolutions with lots of on-screen action, my temps *barely* hit 60, and the auto-fans do a good job of keeping the temps between 55 and 60.

When I use the fans are on F-10 high, the temps stay around 55 all the time no matter how high games are cranked up. And I have the Exteremely Expensive Edition too which seems to be more heat prone.

Getting back to the issue here, how about his heat sink paste, could it be failing? I heard of folks replacing the OEM paste with Artic silver when they first got their notebook and getting good reduction of temps right away. Perhaps they didn't do a good job of applying the paste in the first place, and now it's drying up or failing more seriously.

I wonder if carefully applying Artic Silver would help in this case. I'd also like to see a picture of how well the OEM paste was applied on the CPU here.
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post #18 of 52
12/3/04 at 4:50pm
ok...i tested without dualscreen now....ive tested 2 times so far and it have worked 100% ...

but ive always used dual screen so i have no idea what is wrong...the temp is lower without dual screen....so i think this is why it is working.

But something must be broken or something with the GPU ...because im supposed to be able to run dual screen without artic cooling :P atleast it worked for a long time

this is why i hate laptops...i can find the problem and fix it in most cases on a desktop comp but a laptop ....much harder :/
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post #19 of 52
12/4/04 at 2:32pm
Thread Starter 
had no problems yesterday either. I think it's definitely heat that's killing the lappy. Just find a way to fight heat, and you've found the solution.
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post #20 of 52
12/4/04 at 4:42pm

yea...but

It was NOT like this before. After i stopped using dualscreen and i installed the drivers i got with the cd (1year olds) i can play warcraft3 like ten times before i get the "lagginess" only now it is much much less...but still unplayebale. It also just last for like 5-10 secs and happens like every hour or two...

But this is without dualscreen and a 1yearold driver. I want newer drivers (better fps in games) and dualscreen...like i had before. I need to have more cooling when using the new drivers (omega) to not get the crash/laggyness. Also with omegadrivers the laptop usally crash/lagg at 67-70 but with the old drivers it goes up to 75c without crashing. Ive also did a 3hour loop with 3dmark on old drivers....no crash.

Argh...i dont understand..... my guess is the GPU is somewhat broken and/or the goop is gone/broken .....

the fn+f10 does not work for me...the fans that is. But i cant imagen how the fans can be even louder then they already are :P lol...

why did this happen to me!! and in christmas
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