New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

pentium m

post #1 of 55
Thread Starter 
PC Mag did an article on notebook processors. It appears the pentium m 1.7 is almost as fast as the pentium 4 3.02.
winstone of 35.9 vs 39.1. Should we be looking at pentium m machines. I was waiting for the 8890.
post #2 of 55
For what we want it for

Gaming

Pentium M is far superior
post #3 of 55
What the heck? The P4m is made for mobility...not for crunching numbers. The 3.2ghz Desktop P4 processor is FAR faster than the mobile chips. It's just a matter of voltage and power.
post #4 of 55
Also you have to remember what other features you're getting with the 8890...
- RAID on the MB
- 7200 RPM drives
- 800 MHz FSB

Show me another machine that can do that (in a P4M configuration)
post #5 of 55
Here's a review of the new centrino technology. From AnAndTech.com
post #6 of 55

for gaming?

Quote:
Originally posted by Maverick2o2
For what we want it for

Gaming

Pentium M is far superior
Hello. The pentium-m cpu is very powerful but are you telling me that you believe gaming on a centrino would be better than on the new Sagers? You must be kidding.... good luck seeing an M10 Pro with 128 megs of ddr memory in a centrino laptop.... what about dual-channel ddr ram? nuff said.....


Steve
post #7 of 55
Pentium M is nice. That is why my next laptop will be P-M based. =)
post #8 of 55

they are nice..

Quote:
Originally posted by hrana
Pentium M is nice. That is why my next laptop will be P-M based. =)
Hello. The pentium-m is a very nice and powerful cpu and for true mobility a centrino is the way to go... for hardcore gaming and business and video editing apps the Sagers will drown the centrino... one day, Intel will have a mobile chip(after Dothan), with a better motherboard(bigger and faster FSB) etc... then things will be very interesting.... but not now....


Steve
post #9 of 55
Correct me if I'm wrong, if there are any chip-architecture people out there, but from what I've heard, the Pentium-M chips make up for slow speed by having a larger cache (2mb on the Pentium-M versus 512k on the Pentium 4).

So it is slower. Thats a given. It can just store more data in its fast cache.

With gaming, do you really think that extra cache is going to help much? I'd imagine that, even when nothing exciting is going on, 2mb isn't nearly enough to cache it all, so both chips have to fetch from RAM, and the Pentium 4 wins on speed there. Maybe the Pentium M doesn't have to fetch from RAM as much, which might save a little, but I doubt it makes up for its slow speed.

Benchmarks are skewed. They probably ran a number crunching program which required about 1.5meg of data, which means the Pentium M can cache it just fine, and never touch RAM while its running, whereas the Pentium 4 has to continually waste cycles fetching from RAM.

Think about it. If the Pentium M's are faster and more energy efficient, why don't they put Pentium M's in desktops? I suppose cost is the only possible answer, and I'm not sure they cost more, but even if they are, why don't desktop makers have an upgrade option to pay extra for a supposedly faster, more energy efficient chip?
post #10 of 55

just one thing...

Hello. The pentium-m chips have a 1 mb cache right now... when Dothan arrives in october/november than it will have a 2 mb cache... there will come a time in the future when you will have a true mobile chip in a beast like the Sager's... I don't think this chip is going to be put in desktops... since the idea behind the pentium-m is to conserve battery power and optimize performance there is no need for it in a desktop which always runs on electricity....


Steve
post #11 of 55

Re: they are nice..

Quote:
Originally posted by ssweig
Hello. The pentium-m is a very nice and powerful cpu and for true mobility a centrino is the way to go... for hardcore gaming and business and video editing apps the Sagers will drown the centrino... one day, Intel will have a mobile chip(after Dothan), with a better motherboard(bigger and faster FSB) etc... then things will be very interesting.... but not now....


Steve
dont use intel's marketing hype... use pentium m or banias.. centrino is just the pentium m in a package with intel wireless you can have the same with wireless a/b/g but then it cant be a centrino since intel doesnt have a a/b/g minipci yet...
post #12 of 55

good marketing...

Quote:
Originally posted by infinity306
dont use intel's marketing hype... use pentium m or banias.. centrino is just the pentium m in a package with intel wireless you can have the same with wireless a/b/g but then it cant be a centrino since intel doesnt have a a/b/g minipci yet...
Good point.. You do need to give Intel credit though.. they really know how to market... I do of course use the word centrino which thanks to Intel is stuck in my head....


Steve
post #13 of 55

Re: good marketing...

Quote:
Originally posted by ssweig
Good point.. You do need to give Intel credit though.. they really know how to market... I do of course use the word centrino which thanks to Intel is stuck in my head....


Steve
Im just ready for their new mobile tech. brandname that can only be called such with intel video, sound, wireless, etc. LOL
post #14 of 55
theres going to be a ton of m10pro 128mb cards in centrino processors when it comes out....its not out yet, and id take a centrino over a desktop processor anyday, its alot faster, runs cooler, battery last forever, my 1.3 ghz centrino is faster than my dads 2.2 ghz desktop computer, which is sad on the desktop's part, my compaq i know i can upgrade to the m10pro soon as it comes out, which is why i bought it
post #15 of 55
Yeah you have to say that the x1000 (which I know you bought) with the 9200 that can be upgraded is a pretty sweet box - especially for the money.

Combine the Centrino with the 9600Pro and you have a machine that will not only crank for normal work, have a long battery life. But will play games very very well. All for 1500 dollars or so.

Quote:
Originally posted by frankly m0dest
theres going to be a ton of m10pro 128mb cards in centrino processors when it comes out....its not out yet, and id take a centrino over a desktop processor anyday, its alot faster, runs cooler, battery last forever, my 1.3 ghz centrino is faster than my dads 2.2 ghz desktop computer, which is sad on the desktop's part, my compaq i know i can upgrade to the m10pro soon as it comes out, which is why i bought it
post #16 of 55
Just to clear up some confusion: Intel actually has 3 different lines of Pentium chips right now:

1. Pentium 4 or "P4" is a desktop chip. The new ones come with HyperThreading and are allso known as "P4HT". Power requirements of CPUs are proportional to the square of their voltage, and the latest generation of desktop chips use low voltages: 1.5V in the case of the P4. This allows them to be used in laptops with acceptable battery life. Compare this to the best laprtop processor of a few years ago, the original P3-M, which used 2.3 Volts (note that this is *not* the P3's used today - modern versions of the P3 are 'ultra-low voltage' and use under 1 volt). Check here for a discussion of processor voltage.

2. Mobile Pentium 4 is the version of the P4 designed for laptop use, also known as the "P4-M". The key feature of the P4-M is its ability to run on a different range of voltages, sacrificing processor speed for energy efficiency. The P4-M runs between 1 and 1.3 volts, and runs at the same speeds as a P4 (the 533 MHz FSB versions, up to 3.06), with the same instruction set and operations per cycle, so a P4-M at a given speed is just as fast as a P4 at that speed,

3. Pentium-M is a different chip than the P4, with a different architecture, and can perform more operations per cycle, so even though its clock speeds are slower (0.9 - 1.7GHz), it can process as fast as a P4. This processor is part of the Intel Centrino package, which also includes wifi, so this is often referred to as a Centrino processor, even though it can be used without the Intel wifi, which prevents it from being called Centrino (as that is a specific marketing label for the whole package). The P-M processor, like the P4-M, can run slower using less voltage to conserve battery power, and its operational range, depending on base speed, is 0.84 to 1.5 volts.


Ok, so a P-M supposedly can perform 1.8 times the operations per cycle as a P4, which means a 1.7 P-M runs just as fast as a P4-M 3.06, which runs just as fast as a P4 3.06. Right?

Well, not quite. First, the 1.8x figure is marketing hype, you need to check out actual benchmarks of one processor against the other. 1.8x is optimal performance, typical performance, while it does let the P-M run perform equivalently to a P4-M with a higher clock speed, isn't a full 1.8x multiple. Second, P4HT will blow away a P4, P4-M, or the equivalent P-M in any situation involving multiple threads or applications running concurrently, thanks to its improved multithreading capability. Given that that covers 80%+ of typical computing situations, including all complex games, the P4HT has a huge advantage.

Then, there are considerations other than the processor. The latest P4HT chipsets also support 800 MHz FSB and dual-channel memory, features that simply aren't available for the P-M or P-4M. For reference, the P-M uses a 400 MHz FSB and the P4-M uses a 533.

So no question that the P4HT wins on speed. But also no question that the P-M wins on battery life and less heat production. The P4-M seems to be being phased out in favor of the P-M, which makes sense, as the P-M is a much better design for portability.

So where the P-M shines is in the ultraportable category. The physical chipset to install it is smaller, lower power consumption allows a smaller battery, and lower heat production allows a smaller cooling system. Put that together and you can come out with a really tiny machine.

Sager is known for the other end of the spectrum - powerhouse desktop replacement notebooks. Sagers tend to be broad and deep to accomodate large (15"+) screens and thick to house multiple optical drives and lots of features. Throw in a cooling system to handle a desktop P4, and you have some of the largest, heaviest notebooks on the market. But, with P4HTs, some of the highest-performing ones as well.

-phubar

(Edit: Typo)
post #17 of 55
ssweig & phubar:

I think that the problem here is that we have two different things going on. Although, like steve said, the sagers will drown out the pentium-m in sheer speed, I don't think that is the target market. If if the pentium-m can do only 85% or 90% of a top-of-the-line Sager system, the Sager won't hold anything to the battery life of the pentium-m. I mean, what's the point of going 150 miles per hour for an hour when you can go 125 for 4 hours? Regardless, video and CAD can only be done properly on a dual processor workstation (like my current system). For gaming, the Sagers make sense because it allows you to go places like LAN parties. In the end, its different strokes for different folks. =)
post #18 of 55

Re: just one thing...

Quote:
Originally posted by ssweig
Hello. The pentium-m chips have a 1 mb cache right now... when Dothan arrives in october/november than it will have a 2 mb cache... there will come a time in the future when you will have a true mobile chip in a beast like the Sager's... I don't think this chip is going to be put in desktops... since the idea behind the pentium-m is to conserve battery power and optimize performance there is no need for it in a desktop which always runs on electricity....


Steve
When the pentium M has an 800+ fsb I might think about it till then.. not for me.. I think it will be a while before they get a 800+ FSb though...
post #19 of 55
Quote:
Originally posted by phubar
3. Pentium-M is a different chip than the P4, with a different architecture, and can perform more operations per cycle, so even though its clock speeds are slower (0.9 - 1.7GHz), it can process as fast as a P4.
Different architecture would mean you have to have completely different versions of any program (same reason a program, even an OS, has to have separate versions for Mac and PC - different chip architectures).

I'm fairly certain thats not the case.

A program is a series of machine instructions. ADD, SUB, PUSH, JUMP, etc. Those instructions must be executed sequentially within any one program. You can't execute "more operations per cycle", because the result of one operation might be needed for the very next operation. The speed at which the operations are executed is determined by the chip speed (1.7GHz means 1.7 billion per second. 3GHz means 3 billion per second).

The only exception is different architectures, like Apple and PC, where a single Apple instruction can potentially do more than a single PC instruction, which is why a slower clock speed Mac can be just as powerful as a PC.

But, the problem here, is that the instructions are completely different. A program written using Apple instructions is jibberish when run on a PC architecture.

I still think that the reason a P-M is faster in some tests is the added cache. A P-4 non-mobile at 1.7GHz, altered to have extra cache, would be exactly as fast as a P-M at 1.7GHz.

And, I think when I said this last, it was misunderstood. If the P-M chip actually is faster, Intel would market them for both laptops and desktops. They wouldn't be called "mobile" chips. They'd be called Pentium-5's, and Intel would talk about how they're twice as fast as equivalent speed Pentium-4's.
post #20 of 55
Performance wise ive SEEN the benchmarks and with my own eyes

a Pentium M system beat a Pentium4 system with equal graphic cards

2.8ghz pentium4 with radeon 9000 64mb

vs

1.6ghz pentiumM with radeon 9000 64mb

same ram same hardrive same os and the pentiumM systems had a lower clocked radeon

in everygame except splintercell the pentium M system owned the pentium4 system by a little or by a lot
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Sager & Clevo Notebooks