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Apple Powerbook G4 - Review - Page 8

post #141 of 152
I say "tops off" for the stock configuration—the only thing to customise on the 17 inch PowerBook is memory...unless you want a smaller hard drive or need a non english keyboard.

If I remember correctly, David got the 15 inch PB.
post #142 of 152
the computer is obselete pretty much when you buy it bc something new is always coming out. so having one for 3 years is gonna be way behind the new technology that is coming out
post #143 of 152

So computers don't go obsolete?

Bull! I bought a PIII 433 MHz desktop back in 2000 / 2001. This is not obsolete but its as close as you can get to it. That cost me the same as a high end board today so my opinion is that 4 years is the longest most sane people would hold onto hardware. Try running any of your games on that!! It has a 16MB Riva TNT2 card in it which btw also cost me a packet in those days! Is that not nearly obsolete too?

My point is simply do not spend extra $$ on aledged longevity unless you can swap in and out components to keep up. Laptops are generally not particularly upgradeable so the sentiment goes double for those.

And to boot....... if you guys want to meddle with Nyquist and Moore that is your business. I re-stated CPU speeds double every 18 Months. This is generally widely accepted. The only thing that meddles with that is Marketing and the need for manufacturers to recoup their continuing R&D investments. i.e. if we lost AMD then Intel might not forge ahead at the rates they currently do. They do not see Apple as any kind of threat.

The clock speeds (MHz) double around every 2 years while the internal architecture changes in other ways during the two years.... and then they change the technology and start again. The net effect is that the actual CPU speed / performance is double every 18 months!

Heres a sample from history in terms of the major processor introductions... dispute this if you want! Note that apparent steps backwards in terms of CPU Clock speed is still an advance in terms of CPU speed (Performance)

I leave off in 2001 with the P(IV). Ye can continue that on if you wish... it does still add up due to the changes in architecture to get the most benefits from the technology in that chip.

8086 4 MHz for most of early 80s due to no competition
8086 8MHz 1984
286 12MHz 1985
386DX 33MHz 1986
486DX 25MHz April 10 1989
Pentium 66MHz March 22 1993
Pentium Pro 200MHz Nov 1 1995
Pentium II 300MHz May 7 1997
Pentium III 733MHz Oct 25 1999
P(III) 1GHz March 08 2000
P(IV) 1.3GHZ March 10 2001

Good luck with your Mac. Lets compare notes and expenditure in 4 years time. One could buy the latest Notebook in that day for little more than some change + the cost difference between a high spec Mac laptop and Dell 17WUXGA 1GB, 60GB 7200, NVidia Geforce 256MB etc etc
post #144 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wobbie
And to boot....... if you guys want to meddle with Nyquist and Moore that is your business. I re-stated CPU speeds double every 18 Months. This is generally widely accepted. The only thing that meddles with that is Marketing and the need for manufacturers to recoup their continuing R&D investments. i.e. if we lost AMD then Intel might not forge ahead at the rates they currently do. They do not see Apple as any kind of threat.

The clock speeds (MHz) double around every 2 years while the internal architecture changes in other ways during the two years.... and then they change the technology and start again. The net effect is that the actual CPU speed / performance is double every 18 months!

Wrong wrong wrong. People twisted Moore's Law to mean peformance jumping. It has nothing to do with it, just helps since the more complex a chip can become, the better it might perform.

Want proof? Look at benchmarks. Remember my example of the P4? The ones at the top are pretty new, then around the 2.8-3.2 area marks what was out 18-24 months ago. I'm not seeing a doubling there, or anything close. Feel free to flip throwth the benchmarks there and find a consistant doubling every 18-24 months. You will find every once in a blue moon it happens, but not always.
post #145 of 152
Notice how wobbie completely disregarded everything except the Moore's law stuff.


pwned.
post #146 of 152

So Apple are the saints then?

Kakaze!

I take some of your points but some of your statements are wrong too. I agree IBM would not have been too pleased but they have only themselves to blame.

And btw chastizing IBM in any way does not vindicate your point or lessen the charges Apple have to answer. If anything it just proves that Apple did a better job of patenting everything and keeping an almost monopoly position.

Open Architecture wrt IBM and the PC means .. here is a PC, it comes with lots of business software. It run DOS and has a BIOS. In addition they published the critical interface between the BIOS and DOS (INTs) while keeping the software in the BIOS copyrighted... would you expect any less? This was really meant for software developers to enable more business software to be produced and hence strengthen their own position through a wealth of software titles. They did not anticipate that this made it very easy for other manufactures to actually build similar hardware and implement the BIOS side of the interfasce with ease. Compaq had it easy.

They also did not use custom parts. This was another critical aspect of the PC design. The only thardware I believe IBM designed and patented was their keyboard. This meant the original BIOS and H/W spec came with a list of harware, the i/o ports and INTs they used and basically was a blue-print for others to follow.

Altogether, this is what let Compaq in the door. If Compaq had as you say reverse engineered anything then they would have gotten their asses sued. That is illegal. Without a publically available interface they would have had a hard time proving they did not reverse engineer everything. But with the publically available API they could simply say they coded their own implementation.

Has any manufacturer to date managed to produce a Mac compatible? Why is that exactly?
post #147 of 152
Quote:
If Compaq had as you say reverse engineered anything then they would have gotten their asses sued. That is illegal. Without a publically available interface they would have had a hard time proving they did not reverse engineer everything. But with the publically available API they could simply say they coded their own implementation.
Reverse Engineering is not illegal. IBM actually published the assembly code to their BIOS to attempt to prevent people from cloning it, since that work published meant it was protected by copyright. Compaq had to be very careful to hire clean room engineers that never looked at that code. Here, a quote from a site about this:
Quote:
Compaq, on the other hand, was the first "PC clone" company. It's a term that sounds rather quaint today. At the time, though, Compaq sent a shudder through the industry. Compaq reverse-engineered the IBM PC BIOS without ever looking at the BIOS code. That was harder than you might think, because IBM actually published the assembly code for the PC BIOS in its technical reference manuals. Compaq was able to prove that its engineers never looked at the code or disassembled the original BIOS to come up with their own.
They had some engineers look at the code (not illegal), describe how it worked with no actual examples (not illegal), then that description was passed by a lawyer to ensure nothing violated the copyright. From there, it was passed on to another engineer who signed a contract stating they had never seen the BIOS code. That engineer used the description to build something similar (not illegal). Like it or not, you owe all your appreciation of the PC industry to Compaq, not IBM. Had Compaq not done what they did, the PC industry would be as closed as the Apple side of things.

Quote:
Has any manufacturer to date managed to produce a Mac compatible?
Yep, including Atari. The problem with making a 100% compatible Apple machine is the usage of not only the Apple ROM, but also Apple designed chipsets. Hardware reverse engineering is much more difficult to do in a quick amount of time, so most companies don't attempt it. But non Apple Mac machines exist, as did a few non Apple Apple II compatibles.

Quote:
And btw chastizing IBM in any way does not vindicate your point or lessen the charges Apple have to answer.
Thus far, I have countered your one incorrect Apple statement about iTunes and the iPod. I did miss the price one, but I see nothing else you have brought up that demands an answer or correction. Most of it has been correction of your view of PC history.

Price wise, Apple systems are a lot more competitive then people give them credit. Sure, Apple doesn't play a lot in the low end PC range (but they are more with the Mac Mini). But non competiting in one mostly unprofitable part of the market doesn't make their machines expensive. Dollar for dollar, G5 workstations crank out some awesome power compared to identicially priced workstations from Dell and others. Go beyond x86 workstations, and the G5s look downright cheep. Priced out an Itanium workstation lately?

Desktops, well you have the entry level Mac Mini now at $500, then the eMac and iMac above that. I will admit here that Apple has not been the best at lowering prices on the iMacs when LCD prices fall, but the machines they build are much more likely to live on at your parents house then some cheep $300 eMachine. Thankfully Apple does not use crippled versions of processors to reach lower prices, like the Ceneron found in most sub $500 PCs.

In the laptop area, they are also decently competitive. They don't however play in the desktop 12 pound market. Where they do compete, they do very well. Find me a PC laptop on the market at the $1000 price point with non integrated video, CD-RW and 256MB of ram. The entry level iBook is a great value, even before you look at the software it comes with. Most PCs in that range are likely to have crippled useless crap for anything beyond web browsing and e-mail.
post #148 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by drakino
Find me a PC laptop on the market at the $1000 price point with non integrated video, CD-RW and 256MB of ram. The entry level iBook is a great value, even before you look at the software it comes with. Most PCs in that range are likely to have crippled useless crap for anything beyond web browsing and e-mail.
Good point!..sorry...I am aiming at getting one of those....
post #149 of 152
Thank you so much drakino...now I don't have to waste my time writing a reply.
post #150 of 152
Apples are really good to say:
Damn, I'm in debt, but don't I look cool at the wifi cofee shop,
too bad i can't afford a double tall mocha...
post #151 of 152
closet_nerd is really good to say:
damn i paid too much for a 12" machine w/o discrete graphics by going w/ a windows system! doh! too bad i paid $200-400+ more for an integrated chipset...if i hadn't i could afford a clue, like how to google "free wifi" and go to a site like wififreespot. if i hadn't paid more for my wintel machine, i'd be able to afford some fat RAM and a 7200rpm drive for less than what a PM 12" machine would run me. oh yeah, mix in the free wifi coffee shops and the prior savings, and i guess i'd be sitting next to some apple shmucks at the bean store, thinking i actually got a better deal than they did...assuming i scraped together enough money since my wintel purchase, to afford said clue about finding free wifi locales. but even so, apparently it wasn't enough to afford the extra "F" in cofee, much less a cup of it.
post #152 of 152
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