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Sager 9860 slowdown on battery - Page 2

post #21 of 52
12/8/04 at 1:54am
Is this something that could be fixed with a BIOS update?

Kinda hoping Adam or Luke will give their input on this...(i.e. Sager's input)
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post #22 of 52
12/8/04 at 3:24am
"You have to BOOT off battery to enable the BIOS CPU/FSB scaling," hmm i don't see that. There is no CPU scaling in the BIOS Setup even when booting from battery.
Its clearly there on the Sager 8890 under the Advanced tab, no where to be see on the 9860
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post #23 of 52
12/8/04 at 5:17am
Thread Starter 
Can anyone post some results so we can compare performance drop of 9860 and 8890 running same benchmarks on AC and on DC. Preferably in some real-world applications (read, 3D games).
I would also like if someone could explain what happens with games when running non-standard (wide-aspect instead of 4:3) or non-native (less then 1680x1050) resolution. Does it shrinks-stretch, or is it framed with black border.
Also, how playable is native resolution (1680x1050) of 9860 in current high-end (FPS demanding) games?!

Huh, so much questions.
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post #24 of 52
12/8/04 at 5:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
"You have to BOOT off battery to enable the BIOS CPU/FSB scaling," hmm i don't see that. There is no CPU scaling in the BIOS Setup even when booting from battery.
Its clearly there on the Sager 8890 under the Advanced tab, no where to be see on the 9860
That's correct, on the 9860 you cannot disable the BIOS CPU/FSB scaling feature, it's hidden but always enabled. However, the scaling does not take place unless you boot off battery power.
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post #25 of 52
12/8/04 at 1:06pm
Ok, here is my input so far, mind you this is all my opinion at this point until I can get some answers out of Sager. As I am sure many of the veterans of this forum remember the release of the 8790 and how it would destroy an 8cell battery if you were running games on battery. I believe this is the same issue we are facing with the 9860, the 9860 has much greater power requirements then the 8790 and a much shorter battery life. I believe making the attempt to game on the battery without any cpu/gpu throttling may damage the battery. At this rate i think you may get about 20-30 minutes on battery without the throttling, and that would not seem like a very useful option to me, but just my .02.
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post #26 of 52
12/8/04 at 1:50pm
It would be nice to have the option, the only time I'm on battery(basically) is when I'm showing somebody(usually a client or prospective client) a animation or something in Maya, Combustion, or AE. the slowdown totally kills this, I have already been victim to this, an animation previewed in near real time on maya when plugged in, slowed to a crawl when shown to client on battery. I hope you can add the choice of turning off the downthrottling of the cpu.
fwiw
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post #27 of 52
12/8/04 at 2:58pm
From the horse's mouth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sager
NP9860 Battery Performance:


The NP9860 was designed as a Desktop Replacement (DTR) with a vision of providing the best possible performance that can be found on the market in a notebook unit package. Some may even call the NP9860 a Small Form Factor desktop with a LCD screen. There isn’t any other unit out on the market that can provide the functionality and options found in the NP9860, which includes a 17” LCD screen, Intel LGA775 Processor up to 3.8GHz, and 4 memory slots. The NP9860 even has the option to have Dual Hard Disk Drives and Dual Optical Drives coexisting as well as many other functions.

The Power Draw requirements of the unit is so demanding that when it is running under battery power it can not be allowed to run at full speed, even when it is capable of doing so. Without going into great detail, the limitation is at that the Battery Cells are not capable of withstanding the continued discharge levels that would be required to run the unit at full power under battery. While the NP8790 does not have the same limitation, please keep in mind the power drawn from the battery on the NP8790 unit is lower due to its lesser power demands and that both units have been designed with the best battery cells available to the market.

The NP9860 has been tested so that when it’s running under battery mode, most, if not all, Office application software functions have negligible to no differences between full speed under AC or Battery Mode. While Sager does have the option and it is capable to enable full speed of the Unit under battery mode, the results of the aging test on the battery Cells leads us to conclude this functionality cannot be approved for release at this time. Sager is continuing further research on further improving the NP9860’s performance under battery power.
So long story short no CPU throttleing will severly impact the battiries life.
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post #28 of 52
12/8/04 at 3:35pm
Thanks for the response. It is dissappointing to hear but atleast we know they are looking into the issue.
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post #29 of 52
12/8/04 at 3:58pm
Now we know. And knowing is half the battle! Yo Joe!!!

Thanks Luke
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post #30 of 52
12/8/04 at 4:20pm
should i wait for this problem to be fixed or can i just uy the 9860 now/soon and be able to fix it later.
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post #31 of 52
12/8/04 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hai tu
should i wait for this problem to be fixed or can i just uy the 9860 now/soon and be able to fix it later.
Mind you this is just IMHO, but i don't know that there will be a resolution to this short of finding a replacement for the smart LI-ion batteries. This isn't a problem rather than a fact, current batteries are not made to keep up with the draw of current notebooks. This is a DTR notebook wich amounts to some mobile features suchs as battery life/performance were more than likely not taken into consideration when this notebook was designed.
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post #32 of 52
12/8/04 at 5:24pm
So, Luke...can we order the 9860 from PCTorque or Sager without the battery to save some money? I mean if the battery is going to make the machine virtually unusable and still last less than an hour I would rather not even have it.

Cheers!
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post #33 of 52
12/8/04 at 5:46pm
Sager does not allow these notebooks to be shipped without batteries, part of the bundled package. The is not unusable under battery, but rather not usable for heavy applicatios such as games and other 3-d applications.
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post #34 of 52
12/8/04 at 5:48pm
Based on that explanation from Sager, it doesn't sound like there's anything wrong with the notebook necessarily, just the long-known fact that current battery technology is lagging behind everything else.

That's what I've been hoping to see very soon (for a looooong time now), is a new wave of battery technology that can actually keep up with all the other technology we have. Battery tech is so old and in such need of an update, it's pathetic.

Until then, this system will just have to be tethered.

I just wish companies like Electrovaya, and their PowerPad battery would actually work with Sagers - because at least that would be one solution to not having to be next to an outlet. Here is their compatibility list - but who knows, maybe it could work with a Sager. I haven't inquired, though.

Another company that makes this type of product, is Valence, with their N-Charge Power System II battery. Here's their compatibility list (PDF).

The thing that I can't figure out is why these two companies have some really obscure laptop manufacturers on their list, but not Sager. Makes no sense to me. But once again, maybe their products will work with Sager. Anyone interested in either of these batteries, would of course, need to inquire.

Maybe that will help someone out there for the time being.
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post #35 of 52
12/8/04 at 6:32pm
Thread Starter 
All in all, we have more or less four options:

- ignore the fact that batteries cannot survive full-load power demand , and continue to use 9860 as 'notebook-look-a-like desktop with built-in UPS'

- wait for someone to design Dothan based notebook with Go6800 (or X800) and pray that power demand won't be as high as with P4 & Go6800

- wait for some new 'space-age' batteries, or portable nuclear powerplant to hook on 9860

- choose some other (less powerfull) notebook
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post #36 of 52
12/8/04 at 7:27pm
Thank you for following this up Luke, at least we now know what the situation is. I think it would have been appropriate though for Sager/Clevo to have disclosed this new battery saving 'feature', before many of us went out and bought the 9860 with the expectation that it would at least perform similarly to the 8790. All that said and done, I don't regret upgrading to the 9860 and I appreciate the fact that is is the first 'True' desktop replacement ever built - offering dual optical drives, SATA Raid-0 and an upgradeable PCIe graphics card - it truly is an amazing machine. I will now stop harping on about this, accept the situation and start appreciating my 9860 for what it can do - run Half Life 2 REALLY well, Smokin!! .
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post #37 of 52
12/8/04 at 7:49pm
Heh, I really thought this. I mean I still say what is the point at running at full power for all of 15-20 minutes? Its like I said in my review..its a desktop made to look like a laptop... the only upside to this..is im not glued to a desk in one room everyday..but I am glued to a power outlet
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post #38 of 52
12/9/04 at 2:31am
Quote:
I mean I still say what is the point at running at full power for all of 15-20 minutes?
Well, as mentioned before, sometimes 5 minutes is all you need to wow a client with your cool animation, video, etc. (and laptop). The way I read Sager's reply is that it is possible, but you'll likely kill your battery. They may release the option, at least, in the future to be used at your risk.

At least now we know that you should lug that power cord around for client wooing...
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post #39 of 52
12/9/04 at 5:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pplepiew
Well, as mentioned before, sometimes 5 minutes is all you need to wow a client with your cool animation, video, etc. (and laptop). The way I read Sager's reply is that it is possible, but you'll likely kill your battery. They may release the option, at least, in the future to be used at your risk.

At least now we know that you should lug that power cord around for client wooing...
Or hopefully one of the batteries I pointed out above will work with a Sager (or if not, perhaps in the near future), and for those doing presentations, might serve as a way to avoid needing an outlet.

Don't quote me, but one of the reasons I mentioned these batteries, is that I believe they fool the computer into thinking that it's plugged into an outlet, so it may solve the throttling issue while running off of one of these batteries.
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post #40 of 52
12/9/04 at 11:17am
Thread Starter 
andrepeterhill,

What are the settings (resolution,bpp,...) that allow playable framerates on 9860 when 'unplugged'?

Also, can you estimate in percent how much is 9860 slower then 8790 in DC mode.
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