the most expensive sager dealer iv'e found so far! - Page 2  

quick thinking...

How long did it take you to find that out.....



Steve

Re: Ironic

That's a pretty ignorant statement to make. It all pretty much comes down to two things:

1. The warranty the company offers
2. The often-crappy proprietary software that you have to run to control power usage, etc.

Dell and Alienware both offer outstanding coverage for both those two points. I kind of have mixed feelings on the Sager warranty, since the extended warranty you're purchasing is actually a Philips Magnavox warranty...

A notebook is more of an investment than a desktop computer. If I build a desktop, and one of my HD's turns out to be a piece of **** it's easy to swap without any difficulty, same goes for just about any other component. Laptops are more of a package deal, and in my life I've not seen one example that goes against the belief that you get what you pay for.

So call me an idiot for wanting to purchase an Alienware laptop, but don't call Alienware buyers lazy and uninformed.

Re: Re: the most expensive sager dealer iv'e found so far!

In the same way that a lot of these other vendors stay in business (Dell )...people just don't know about the other guys. I only found out about Sager after I bought a Dell 8500 and had so many problems that I visited the dell forums on an almost daily basis. Someone there pointed out that Sager was good. I checked them out and immediately sent my POS Dell back. Now I'm awaiting the 8890 . I'm not ill informed and I bet there are a LOT of people who could benefit from a Sager but just don't know they exist. I'm on a mission now to tell all my friends that they exist as a viable alternative to getting a Dell. having one to show off will go a long way .

Side Note:
I'm not Dell bashing here...I'm typing this on an Inspiron 8000 that I've had for a long time and it's been great. The problem is that Dell moved all operations overseas to the cheapest possible vendors (but of course didn't lower their prices) and got rid of any quality control that they may have had. I got 3 bad screens in the month that I owned the 8500 and to say the keyboard was bad is increadibly generous...it was literally unusable (it was so flimsy that it would bounce if you typed faster than about 15 WPM).

Re: Re: Ironic

Dell complete care is pretty cool...espeically if you break your screen...but be aware that the notebook you get in that event is a base model with none of your options...they don't really mention that point in the sales pitch.

A warrently is like insurance IMO...it doesn't matter who underwrites it as long as they are financially stable. It might even be better to have it underwritten by another company so that if either one goes under you still have the other to go to for help.

Re: Re: Re: the most expensive sager dealer iv'e found so far!

That's interesting to me because I also have an Inspiron 8000 that's only given me minor problems (which I could fix myself) in 2 1/2 years of being an absolute workhorse (I've worn many keys almost off) and I'm also going with the 8890!

I got to Sager because:
1) I saw the Alienware laptops and how they were putting a "desktop board in a laptop" with their current 51-m. That got me off of thinking about a new Dell.
2) I was about to pull the trigger on it then I saw Sager mentioned positively in a CNET/Alienware review forum.
3) After doing the research, the PCTorque/Sager combination seems unbeatable right now in terms of performance, price, and support.
4) Waiting for 8890...

By the way, I think Alienware's desktops are very excellent-- in terms of price and performance. Even there, after doing a bunch of research, this company looks better to me in terms of price, performance, and support:

http://www.abscomputers.com

Their website isn't the best, but they have great prices, and get kudos all over the place for their support. Check them out if you're considering a desktop.

no,
you'd be an idiot for paying a grand more for an alienware compared to a sager

and, that is an opinion... obviously I'm not saying you specifically are an idiot. The point I was trying to make is that big companies make their money off of suckers (suckers like my parents) who just want to buy some thing that says "extended 4 year warranty no hassle) when most of the time... they will take your comp, and yes... fix it... in WEEKS, or months... and you'll be lucky to get your information back if some nob tech doesn't erase your stuff. I would go off about bestbuy, circuit city and the likes... but not really the point of this post.

But what i was trying to say is this... Alienware caters to the people who just like to throw their money away. Those who have to match budget with features aren't served best by this. I could care less if playboy rates the alienware rig as "glorius beyond all imagination".

And for the record, i consider sager to be OEM based.

"There are no free lunches."

You pay for everything. If Dell has good tech support, that is factored into the price of the notebook. If whatever company you buy yours from will replace your screen for free, you are paying a marginal cost, a form of insurance that distributes the price of a new screen multplied by however many people do this, and then divided by the number of customers.

It seems like sometimes people don't realize that there will never be a company that just "gives you" great tech support or just "doesn't mind" chipping in $1k to replace your screen. You pay a marginally higher price for this insurance/service.

The exceptions to this rule come in two forms: vendor non-cost service (service that doesn't cost the vendor anything, but rather is just a better hiring practice, or a more efficient production, or a higher purchase quantity that causes a discount) and the "market entry/capture" approach. "Market entry/capture" sometimes requires going in the red on profits for a stretch in order to capture a piece of the market (stolen from a larger vendor, usually). Sager, even though they are an older company, is still probably using these techniques to some degree.

To me, it's like this: Dell sells more laptops than Sager, by a long shot. This means Dell can buy in higher quantities. In doing so, they secure a cheaper price. They do charge a higher premium for their laptops/branding, but part of this is reflected in ergonomics and service/support and quality. Sager is a great company, and Dell is a great company (Alienware I don't have much experience with). Just remember as a general rule, whatever "bonuses" you're getting with a company, you're paying for.

so the question remains...

Is the warranty worth a grand extra?

I just ran identical systems... (as best I could between the two) ...
about 800-1000 difference. Is that worth the warranty?

Perhaps I am the idiot... for not making enough money to afford such a warranty.

PS in the end... we are all idiots to invest in the top of the line gear that will be worth nothing in 2 years. But hey... so is life.

PPS if you really want to call me an idiot... ask me why I'm taking out a special school loan to buy something I can't afford.

I've been trying to get to Velocity Micro's website for the past few weeks to see what they have to offer. However, I have never been able to connect to their website, including trying just now... Anyone else having this problem?

I think it says something about a company when their website is consistently inaccessible to some potential customers.


Voodoo is an exotic boutique marketer. Their business model is to create a brand image of the highest-quality, custom-made machines on the market. They even compare themselves to Ferrari. People buy Ferraris for the status of owning something exotic and expensive, even though you can get better-performing cars for a fraction of the cost (ever wonder why no Ferraris ever show up to the massive head-to-head performance tests magazines occasionally run?). Voodoo's doing the same thing - when you buy a Voodoo, you're buying a status symbol first, and a computer second. It's all about brand image.


For other places you can get custom-built high-performance desktop machines:
Alienware
Falcon Northwest
ABS
Hypersonic
Monarch

Alienware, Falcon Northwest, and Hypersonic all pitch themselves as 'Premium' brands - in other words, they pitch their machines as status symbols similar to Voodoo, but not to the same extent (think BMW instead of Ferarri). Why do you think their marketing departments work so hard to get reviews in lifestyle magazines like Playboy? They are investing in a brand image.

Interestingly enough, every single company I've heard of that takes a similar approach to sell 'Premium' laptops, including the 'Premium' desktop vendors who also carry laptops, they all ODM and resell Clevos. The most popular, prime machine in the lineup is always the Clevo 5600DS, also known as the Sager NP5670.

One more note on premium branding, product pricing, and again tying into cars. Porsche built an extremely strong brand name for themselves in the 60's and 70's. Owning a Porsche was a huge status symbol and made a statement about who you were. Then, in the 80's, Porsche started mass-producing cheaper cars like the 924/944 and cashing in on their brand name in a big way. Unfortunately, the result of inexpensive Porsche's being ubiquitous on the roads was that the Porsche name lost its panache, and owning a Porsche was no longer a status symbol. As a result, when people started buying SUV's instead of sports cars during the 90's, Porsche sales plummeted, and Porsche almost went out of business. But they regouped, dropped all models except the 911, wich retained its legendary heritage, and carefully rebuilt their brand image over several years. Moral of the story? If you're selling a premium product, you've got to maintain its status as a premium product or you lose your selling power. One key point to this is to keep your price high. This maintains exclusivity of the product, and improves its value as a status symbol. The target market for a premium company expects to pay more for a premium product. Then, if you're good, you turn around and pamper your customers, and make your product more about ownership experience than just the product itself. If you've ever been to a Lexus dealership - they do pampering well (or at least, used to). This pampering is part of the lifestyle and image you are sellign to your clients. Voodoo actually does a good job of pampering - when I wrote them and asked about DX9 graphics card availability in their laptops, the president of the company wrote me back within 4 hours with a very nice note.

-phubar

just a few notes

I liked your post Phubar... Yes, Voodoo, Hypersonic,Velocity Micro etc.. use clevo... Alienware did use Clevo but dropped them and went with a different manufacturer. Their new laptop is extremely unique in design and they do custom paint jobs. Personally, If I was a pc maker I would want to market a unique product and at the same time increase profit and allow the company to grow.. building a larger infrastructure, investing in higher tech equipment and having enough employees to handle that growth. Marketing is an important aspect for any company. Why is Microsoft, Intel, Dell etc... such big companies with ever expanding profits? They market to get their name out there and at the same time fairly price their products. That is the way business works. Voodoo is a very tiny company with about 30 employees; it is very easy to get hold of the president(Rahul) because they are so small. The main reason they really charge such outrageous sums of money is that they don't sell too many pc's.. whether laptops or desktops and therefore, their costs are higher.. The more a company sells/produces the lower the cost to the company. Voodoo will never get any bigger. Through it all, Alienware has grown from an underground company to a real player in the pc market yet they still maintain their uniqueness. The owners take most of the profit the company makes and invests it right back into the company. I don't think using cars as an example of pc companies is relevant. My point earlier in this thread was not about bashing per se.. it was more of an issue of research.. people making remarks about Alienware that simply are not accurate... I am not here to get people to buy Alienware's... I don't care if every single person on this forum buys a Sager(from PC Torque of course)... The bottom line is that people tend to make outlandish remarks about Alienware that come from "second-hand sources" or from reading some other forums... Alienware has a satisfactory BBB rating while another company does not.... anyway, I liked your post even if I don't totally agree with it....

Steve

Re: what's the problem?...

How is the truth bashing? He didn't even mention the other issues people have with AW as has been seen too many places to discount..

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the most expensive sager dealer iv'e found so far!

sometimes I wonder if Ssweig is on their payroll..

Re: just a few notes

Ohh so now you start to bash sager with your last line.. sometimes I don't agree so much with the BBB anymore and wonder if certain companies arent stacking the deck.. I have heard/seen of no complaints about sager that were not handled promptly...without seeing complaints and logs of such and just a little writeup It don't amount to beans to me... And also sager has been in business since 87 and not sure how BBB does their reports but it's possible that that rating could be from 1-2 complaints in the first few years.. whereas alienware has only been iaround since 96...

Yeah, that whole BBB thing has been hashed out before. Something about companies providing compensation to get rated. It is a subtle bash on ssweig's part. I commend everyone for their freedom of expression, but this ALIENWARE thread belongs in another category. I'm unsubscribing. Over and out.

this thread is done.