Video Editing Software

Re: Video Editing Software

Sonic Foundry's Vegas 4.0 will give you the best bang for your buck. The audio tools are great (You can even mix for 5.1) and it has a much better workflow and interface than Premiere. Check out http://www.sonicfoundry.com/products...ct.asp?PID=808 and you'll be amazed at all the features it has, all for under $500.
Or, if you can afford it, go with Avid Xpress DV 3.5.

Personally, The most intuitive NLE I've ever used was Edit DV, but discreet bought it years ago and stopped all support. Sigh...

I use adobe premiere 6.5 on my 8887 2.4 ghz 512 mb with an external 120 gig 7200 rpm hd (usb 2.0). Runs great, also adobe has lots of plugins available from other sources. It captures great use firewire. Its costs more but has alot of flexablity. I can't say anything bad about vagas or the others, I haven't tried them. I would love to get a 7200 rpm internal hd, but at about $300 I think I will wait awhile. Let us know what you go with and how it works for you. Just remeber, your final product is only as good as you camera and your camera is only as good as the lens and ccd's!

I believe you need at least 7200 rpm, 5400 might work but you may have droped frames with long runs of A/V. Your A/V drive needs to be by its self, not on the system drive. I used 2 5400 rpm drives in a raid setup in an older system a few years back. (matrox rt2000). The 7200 rpm external drive is faster (no droped frames) and can be used to take your A/V to other systems. They are not to expensive. I gave $180 for 120 gig usb 2.0 drive. (it will also work on firewire if I buy the cable, it is an iomega). Make sure you formate your drive to ntfs, fat 32 has a file size limit. The external is also handy to move files fron one system to another, the uses are endless. I played with my adobe with just the system drive and got dropped frames and slow rendering. the new drive made it all good Hope that helps.

Now totally confused

Just got back from a local PC shop talking to the owner about editing digital video. The guy is pretty clued up but I think I blew his mind when I mentioned the Sager 8890 had a S-vid in port.

Anyway I am going thru the issue of 5680 vs 8890. I thought if I go the way of the 5680 I could get an external USB2 or FW video capture box that would then allow me to edit the video. From what this guy told me most external boxes compress to mpeg then shove that up the wire to the computer, whereas PCI desktop cards capture both video AND audio (thus avoiding the horrid lip sync issue) and store it in .avi format which according to this guy is better for editing purposes.

I had a look at the Adobe Premier sw - looks way cool.

Anyway I need some clarification on my understanding of all this.
My uses first:
Transfer VHS tapes to DVD - straight transfer no editing.
Capture the output of Sony handycam playback to allow for video editing - lip sync is a must. Output to mpeg and DVD.
Creation of video content from computer (graphics, slides, screen captures etc), add voice overs, splice in other video and output to mpeg and DVD.

If I get a 5680 is there an external USB2/Firewire input box that will allow me to capture video + audio in .avi format?
If not, then will a 8890 + TV tuner option + Adobe Premier + what ever else I need, allow me to capture .avi, edit and then output?

Is .avi the best format to manipulate video + audio and stay in sync?

This is all new to me so any help would be appreciated.

Ok lets take these one at a time.

1. "Transfer VHS tapes to DVD - straight transfer no editing."

You will still need to capture and encode the video. If your camera has an a/v input that will allow you to run your vcr into it and out to the firewire that would be great. You could use adobe to capture it then any dvd software you prefer to encode it and burn it. I use TMPGEnc Pro to encode. Then Nero to burn. You could use the new adobe dvd software. I have not seen it or used it yet, I like to try before I buy and have not found a demo or friend that has it yet.

2. "Capture the output of Sony handycam playback to allow for video editing - lip sync is a must. Output to mpeg and DVD."

Same here. Does your sony have firewire? If it does just use adobe to capture. No worries, I have not had any lip sync problems. The lip sync problens usally occure when the video is encoded. Make sure you use a good encoder and run it and it only. Don't surf the net or anything while its running. Just let it do its job. Your camera may offer usb capture (mine has both).


3. "Creation of video content from computer (graphics, slides, screen captures etc), add voice overs, splice in other video and output to mpeg and DVD."


Adobe will allow you to use alot of different graphics formates.
I have used it to make a video of pics with transitions, music, backgrouds and the like. It turned out real nice. I have also used it to produce a weekly TV programe for a church that was on a a local station. I used alot of motion backs (Digital Juice, etc.) and grapics, titles, and so on. A screen capture is just a bitmap or jpeg. Just save it as a file you can use, like jpeg, tiff, so on.



4. "Is .avi the best format to manipulate video + audio and stay in sync?"

When you capture Digital Video it is in DV formate which uses the extention avi. Yes, it is best.

I would go for the 8890, I use my 8887. The tv tuner is not the best way to capture the video. us your camera to conert it to firewire. Adobe has a new version of premeire out called Adobe Premeire Pro. I have not used it yet, but it looks great. Here is a web site that may help you.

http://www.dv.com/

You will need to register to get in to all the content, but it is free to get in.

As far as an externial box there are alot to choose from, but if you go with the 8890 you want need one. one less thing to hook up.

Hope this helps. Don't get frustrated. Keep working at it, you will be editing like a pro in no time.

Thanks Ranger. Your reply cleared up a lot of confusion. I am in awe at the knowledge on this forum. Video editing is a totally new field to me. I come more from a sysadmin background and we don't get much call for AV.

After doing some more googling last night and reading some more threads I discovered the Canopus ADVC-100 DV converter box seems to be well rated particularly if you are capturing long sequences and need that all important lipsync.

Some more questions if I can ask (I think what is needed on this forum is a AV FAQ sticky. With the grunt of 8890 it seems an ideal box for doing this kind of work. Maybe once I understand it a bit more I will put such a post together).

1. One thing I am not sure about with the 8890 is, if I use its S-vid in port + line in to capture from a vcr how good is the sync?

2. What format will the result be encoded in, mpeg or avi? This I assume is determined by the capture software you use (is this what Adobe Premier does or is it just editing?).

3. There was also mention about S-vid in only works when the supplied TV tuner sw was running. Is this true or does the capture sw run without it?

4. (Editing question) Once you have a vid on your hd in avi format can you then create a table of contents/index for a DVD that will take you to a specific point in the video?

One of my first jobs is to convert a long (>5hr) vhs video to DVD. It would be nice to just set and forget (capture wise). I realise this is going to create *big* file(s). I expect a 60Gb disk to disappear really quickly. Given the length of the video and this issue of sync (and without a new DV cam with AV input) I am leaning to the Canopus box but if you think the std S-Vid + line in method would work let me know. Thanks for all your feedback.

"1. One thing I am not sure about with the 8890 is, if I use its S-vid in port + line in to capture from a vcr how good is the sync?"

Not sure, I have not used it. You would have to use the audio line in also. That may give some problems. I use only firewire. What camera do you have? It may allow you to hook up your vcr to it, then hook it up to the sager with firewire or usb. What it does, if yours does it, is convert the analog A/V to DV. Allowing you to capture it as DV on your computer and keeping everything in sync. If it does not do this I would get a "box". You can get them cheap. They even have them a Wal Mart here in the states. Something like this would work fine:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....2&type=product

This one does NTSC, PAL, and SECAM. I'm not sure but dont you use PAL in Australia? Anyway it does all 3 and for $300. The resolution is also important. This one does 720X480 which is the standard for tv.

"2. What format will the result be encoded in, mpeg or avi? This I assume is determined by the capture software you use (is this what Adobe Premier does or is it just editing?)."

You can choose somewhat, but you want to capture in DV (avi). There is an option to capture in DV PAL also. You can export it in the formate you need. all you need is the correct codec. Adobe has several codec's to choose from. But if you don't want to edit the vidio you can import it to adobe then export it as mpeg (for dvd). Or use TMPGEnc to encode it. It also will let you make vcd or svcd to burn on a cd-r. As for as editing the video you capture from your vcr, even if you don't "edit" it you can still use adobe to correct the color and adjust the audio and such.

"3. There was also mention about S-vid in only works when the supplied TV tuner sw was running. Is this true or does the capture sw run without it?"

As for this I don't know. I have not used it.

"4. (Editing question) Once you have a vid on your hd in avi format can you then create a table of contents/index for a DVD that will take you to a specific point in the video?"

Yes, it will depend on the software you use. DVDIT! does do this.

"One of my first jobs is to convert a long (>5hr) vhs video to DVD. It would be nice to just set and forget (capture wise). I realise this is going to create *big* file(s). I expect a 60Gb disk to disappear really quickly. Given the length of the video and this issue of sync (and without a new DV cam with AV input) I am leaning to the Canopus box but if you think the std S-Vid + line in method would work let me know. Thanks for all your feedback."

It would be a good idea to "break it up". It makes it a lot easier to edit, import, export, convert and so on. Canopus makes some nice stuff. I would go with a box, as far as using the s-video in the quality would not be as good. Editing can be fun and it can also be a pain. When you get frustrated, walk away for awhile then come back with a clear head. It makes it go alot better and you will find that the thing that was given you fits was simple.

Thanks again Ranger.

My cam is an old Video8 Sony TR50E which did not have a DV output

Now I understand the usefulness of Firewire when it comes to DV. That would appear to be the way to go. Thanks for the idea about using the cam to do the VCR to DV conversion - it might be cheaper to get a new cam and let it do the work rather than having yet another external box to fiddle with. And I can actually use it as a video camera - amazing, what will they think of next .

You mentioned the capture resolution - something I will check out when I have a look at the new cam. And also thanks for the feedback on the software pkgs. Half the fun is going to be experimenting with all these new toys.

I will also remember to take a break. Same thing happens when I am coding some particularly complex routine. Brain sometimes need to be given a rest.

Glad to help. Here is the one I recently got. It does the conversion thing. It also has usb 2 and firewire. You can use it as a still camera (it's ok as a still cam, but prefer a dedicated still cam). You can use it as a web cam also. It comes in a PAL version. There is a higher model that has a better lens and ccd.(even better at low light, not that this one is bad). I didnt dare pay more after buying my sager.(Im married!) Here is a link to take a look at it. You should be able to find a better deal.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=277742&is=REG

Let me know what you get. Also look at reviews on the DV site. You may find a better camera. I guess it all comes down to how much you want to spend.(or your wife will let you spend!)

Since my Marriage 1.0 routine was abnormally terminated by Divorce 1.0, Wife 1.0 along with MIL 0.1 are no longer TSR (terminate and stay resident) in my system. I did fork a new child process but he is still running under the Ex-wife 1.0 interrupt service.

I am about to apply Sager patch 8890 to a new version of Life 2.1. This should result in excellent performance and may allow better hyperthreading with Son 1.0. Interface of Girlfriend 2.0 indicates better compatibility with underlying hardware . I will share new benchmarks when they become available

Thanks for the link btw.

Good luck. Don't forget to defrag and scan disk often. And you may look into a memory upgrade. I still have some system freeze ups every now and then myself. This happen when I do upgrades like the sager 8887 I did in febuary. I was able to do a repair and not a complete re-install. Hope you have a fraging good time. LOL.

Mark-
Have you looked into Avid Express Pro and Avid's Mojo yet? They're both due to ship on September 16th and should be the equivalent of Final Cut Pro 4 and AJA for the Mac. You can use Avid Pro as either an on-line system for completing relatively simple projects, or if you plan on a more complicated multi-stream project with lots of effects, you can use it in an off-line mode and import your EDL to a higher end Avid post house later. Avid is more or less the broadcast industry standard at this point, and although Vegas, Adobe, and others have introduced killer products at very attractive prices, why not learn a system with more upside potential and a much wider user base?

Re: Re: Video Editing Software

I've been using Sonic Foundry Vegas for over a year now. It is AWESOME! I have edited in professional high end Avid studios ($1million+ in hardware), but with a high end PC and Sonic Foundry I haven't felt the limits of my home studio. You can get Vegas bundled with the DVD authoring program for a resonable price. I have a Sony TRV-950 camera that I absolutely love. You can do some impressive stuff with just about any DV camera though. The firewire is a must. I recomend replacing the camera rather than trying to buy capturing equipment. When you are ready for serious audio make sure to pick up a Sennheiser K6/ME66 microphone.

Thanks Baraxe,
It would appear that there are 4 main contenders to the video editing arena:

Pinnacle whatever (too many)
Adobe Premier Pro (not 6.5)
Sonic Foundry Vega 4
Avid Xpress 3.5

From my research Avid looks like the top end product along with its > $US1000 price tag, Sonic is second, Adobe with its new Pro version is giving sonic a run for its money (both seem to cost about $US500). Pinnacle was just too hard to work out what I needed so I gave up with them .

The major difference seems to be in the rendering area. Avid seems to do real-time output, where as Premier Pro has to do a render step. Not sure about Sonic yet.

What I could not find out (yet) was if you can have the preview window (is that what they call the window where you get to see your creation before putting it to bed?) in a floating window that you could drag across to another screen (at home I normally run my laptop with twin heads). It would obviously free up screen realestate if you could move the preview window across to the other monitor. Avid seems to have the preview window stuck inside the main window. Does anyone know if it can be detached?

I can see I am going to have fun testing all these products out. Can't wait until my 8890 arrives now.

The poor man's version of Vegas is called Video Factory v2. It's Vegas lite with a three audio track limit, and less transistions...but basically it is Vegas v4. Cost about 90$ USD

Oh yeah...it's made by Sonic Foundry too...the makers of Vegas.

You can tear appart the whole interface

I'm not sure about the preview window in Avid. I know you can send a preview to a different monitor, but I'm not sure how that works in the PC version.

You can tear off the preview window in Vegas. The interface is set up in a series of 'zones'. Any one of the zones can be "torn off" to create a seperate window. The preview window is just one of those zones.

The preview renders real-time. When you are ready to create your final output file it needs to be rendered, and it happens on my machine at pretty much real-time. It depends on how complicated the particular sceen is and how many pieces of video you are integrating.

Don't Forget ULEAD Media Studio Pro

Hi Guys,
I've been doing my own promotional videos for several years, and started way back with Media Studio Pro 5 and have upgraded fairly regularly. This year they released 7.0 which has a lot of great features including software support for Hyperthreading which is one reason I just bought it in expectation of getting my 8890 in a few weeks.
http://www.ulead.com/msp/runme.htm
Its way more intuitive/easier to learn than Premier in my opinion.
And its main competitor seams to be Premier.
Here's a comparison:
http://www.ulead.com/msp/compare.htm
Bob
www.comedyinmotion.com