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8790 Artifacting - Page 4

post #61 of 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobHenry
I'm sending it back. There is no way someone that paid $4000 for a computer should have to send in their computer every six months. In Sager's mission statement they speak of "Sager Standards", and everyone in here knows their 'Standard' doesn't mean shit. It may have been our faults for expecting too much out of a laptop, but the package should not be offered if there is no efficient way of cooling the machine. I don't know how many people work over at Sager but every time I write them I get a reply from David Lui and his response is usually one sentence with words misspelled. I think this problem will put an end to Sager if they do not redesign their customer service. If anyone else is fed up with their sager and wants a full refund, let me know. As David told me in one of the e-mail's he sent, "the video chip is soldering on the motherboard." We all hear the fans so what could they possibly do to correct this heat issue so we don't have to send it in every six months.
Count me out of your "everyone" statement!!

What's your beef? What's wrong with your machine? WHht configuration do you have? Have you overclocked it or anything else of that nature? How long have you had it? Where did you buy it? Was it New or Used? You sound like a "troll"; however, I hope that you aren't one.

What problems have you experienced. We can neither learn or help with only a "Blast" to go on.

You other posts doesn't offer any clarification either? http://notebookforums.com/showthread...993#post735993
post #62 of 385

message to Sager

FYI, I sent the following message to Sager with PC Torque CCed today. I encourage other people who share my sentiment to send similar messages to them. After all, its our responsibility as customers to provide Sager with reasonable feedback in order for them to act on the artifacting issue we are experiecing:

Attn: Customer Service/Sales Department
Sager Notebook Computer Company
18005 Cortney Court,
City of Industry, CA 91748

To Whom It May Concern:

I am one of many consumers who have been impressed with Sager's track
record and customer feedback, eventually resulting in the purchase of a
Sager 8790 machine.

However, in the past month, I have experienced, as have a considerable
number of other customers in the recent past (please refer to the
following link:
http://notebookforums.com/showthread...0&page=1&pp=15), the
so-called "artifacting problem" which seems to stem from a design
issue rather than normal "wear and tear" due to reasonable prolonged
product use (given that the model is just barely a year old and people
have reported experiencing this around 4-8 months after making their
purchase).

The only solution that has been presented thus far has been to send
the unit back for a motherboard replacement and to cross one's fingers
that the problem doesn't recur. In fact, my unit is currently being
serviced and I expect to have it back sometime next week after losing
it for over two weeks. And judging from other customers' experiences
and the feedback from Sager technical support ("we don't know why the
graphics card conks out, all we can do is replace your motherboard
with a same exact one"), there exists reasonable concern among us
customers that the problem will probably recur.

In other words, from the customer's point of view, regardless of the
steps we follow to take care of our investment, there is nothing we
can do to prevent the graphics card from conking out on us again, and
eventually lose another 2+ weeks of productivity (not all of us
invested in this unit simply to play games; for some, our livelihood
depends on the performance of this machine). To make matters worse,
there are a lot of customers whose units' warranties are ending soon,
leaving many exposed to the risk of possibly spending more money later
on each time the graphics card conks out. I understand that we can
extend our warranties another couple of years, but I do not believe we
should spend more to insure ourselves from a problem that does NOT
come from the normal wear and tear that warranties were meant to
cover. I believe this problem belongs more under the "defect" category
because it seems to originate from a design issue.

On behalf of other customers who are in the same predicament, I
request that Sager go the extra mile to address this issue better. My
suggestions: for starters, why not at the least provide free extended
warranties to 8790 owners who specifically experience this problem in
the future? Of course, in the long run, I hope that a permanent
solution is being worked out like a design fix (possible motherboard
replacement which addresses the graphics card conking out problem), or
if the problem is found to be unfixable, perhaps a trade-in option for
another comparable model (if not totally free, maybe an upgrade fee of
even a couple hundred dollars would be more acceptable than extending
the warranty for the same amount knowing that we could end up sending
it back and lose more time later on because the problem is likely to
recur).

Other great companies have taken similar efforts to ensure that
customers feel that their investments are being protected and thus
develop the trust to make repeat purchases and give good
recommendations to other potential consumers. I site an experience I
had with Palm in the past wherein I, among many others experienced a
recurring memory problem with one of their PDA models. Customers had
to send their PDAs back to Palm to have them reset numerous times.
Palm took the extra step to honor servicing PDAs experiencing this
problem for free (regardless if the units' warranty expirations were
well after the standard 1-year warranty; Palm never charged a cent and
even took care of shipping fees to and from their repair center each
time - mine was three years old the last time I had to send it back!).
Eventually, Palm came out with a more acceptable permanent fix by
providing everyone with a memory card which allowed customers to reset
the units themselves and avoid the hassle of losing the use of their
PDAs each time they sent them to the Palm repair center.

My point is, many successful and thriving companies such as Palm have
stepped up to the plate. I encourage Sager to do the same since I
know, as many people do, that customer satisfaction has always been
one of the top objectives of your company. Please give us, your
faithful customers an assurance that it will continue to be a top
priority, so we can continue to make future purchases from your
company as well as provide more recommendations to other consumers,
with peace of mind.

Thank you in advance for addressing this issue in the very near future.
post #63 of 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Omaha
Count me out of your "everyone" statement!!

What's your beef? What's wrong with your machine? WHht configuration do you have? Have you overclocked it or anything else of that nature? How long have you had it? Where did you buy it? Was it New or Used? You sound like a "troll"; however, I hope that you aren't one.

What problems have you experienced. We can neither learn or help with only a "Blast" to go on.

You other posts doesn't offer any clarification either? http://notebookforums.com/showthread...993#post735993
I think he's trying to express the frustration that all of us posting in the artifacting thread here feel. (Jetino, your post was very well written and expresses how I feel about this issue very well.)

I'm sure most of us here bought our 8790s new from reputable resellers (I got mine from PCTorque). I know I didn't touch the configuration or video drivers at all until the artifacting problem started to happen (because I thought it was a software/driver issue to start with). Never overclocked it, never did anything other than use it as my main computer.

I find it amazing that there are so many people who have experienced this problem with the exact same symptoms. I wonder how many people who have purchased this computer have not experienced this problem, and what makes their configuration, usage, or hardware different from those who have. I would love to have a graph of how many people have been affected by this issue over time, starting with 100% functional computers.
post #64 of 385
I'd also like to have a graph of the number of times and frequency that the machines were cleaned - by elapsed period since delivery. Then, I'd attempt to see if there is a relationship between artifacting and clean/no clean activities. I know it's just one factor; however, I am curious. I donot have the artifacting problem and have never done anything other than use it as my main computer for the 7/8 months that I have had it - EXCEPT clean it monthly or when the temperatures appear to be too high (I'm a smoker and "gunk" appears to just appear in strange places).
post #65 of 385
ok the artifact problem is really pissing me off now. how do i get my laptop serviced from japan. any advice?
post #66 of 385
ive been following this thread for a while, and i have to say that im in this artifacting club too.
i take very much care of my laptop, and now it seems to be heavily artifacting with mostly Direct X games, opengl hasnt given me problems as soon as D3D has. i dunno whats wrong with it, but its really beginning to get annoying. i'm in school right now, so i dont really ahve two weeks to spend waiting for my computer to return.

at this rate, i'll just sell it off to someone on e-bay this summer and get another computer.

there has to be an easier solution then to sending it back. i love this machine for all it can do and it sucks to have them [sager] not be able to do anything but replace stuff.
(though i'm still thankful they're doing that ^_^)
post #67 of 385

sager's responsibility

You know what guys, its great that a lot of us want to get to the bottom of why some people are experiencing the artifacting problem and why some are not. But the fact is, a considerable number of us are. And there is no way in this lifetime that everyone who is experiencing the problem is doing something so extraordinary with their units that Sager has an excuse to ignore this issue. Let's face it, there's a very high probability that its a design issue and the people at Sager should be the ones who are wondering why a lot of us are having similar problems. Honestly, I find a lot of people on this forum to be so nice that they're trying to find a solution on their own. This is great, because most problems presented in this forum are eventually solved through the kindness and wisdom of those who care to share their two cents. However, there comes a point when it is obvious that certain issues need to be elevated and Sager needs to take responsibility.

This is America ... we paid for the units, they made a decent profit from us, and they should be holding up their end of the bargain. Customers should not be left to eat the amount they invested for a product they had reasonable expectations from. Heck, I've seen less serious stuff that other companies have legally settled over (I remember Toshiba legally settling something with their customers over the speed of a cd drive that they had installed with their laptops). This artifacting issue is a lot more serious. Eventually, my unit started artifacting even without going through any 3d games. So I don't believe anybody is truly safe from the graphics card eventually conking out on them.

But anyway, everyone who is complaining on this thread should really send a separate message to Sager and give them a nudge to get their act together. I'm pretty sure they'll eventually come around and give a more permanent and acceptable solution. They really shouldn't wait for people to get really pissed when their warranties run out and eventually get pushed to take legal action. And believe me, nobody wants this issue to get that far. Especially when Sager is perfectly aware (nudge to everyone ... let Sager know how dissatisfied you are and send them a message! And afterwards, perhaps sound off on this thread to keep everyone updated of exactly how many of us have actually made a formal complaint to them) and still in a great position to resolve the problem.

On that note, enjoy the rest of the weekend everyone!
post #68 of 385
My 8790 is also at Sager having the motherboard replaced. I understand it to be a defective video chip that was causing the artifacting. I agree that we need some type of guarantee that the new motherboard / video chip will not have the same problem. We all paid quite a bit of money for these machines. This is actually the 3rd computer that I've bought from them {8887, 8890, 8790}. If we cannot receive some type of a guarantee that the new video chip will not go bad, I would like to see some type of upgrade policy to another machine.
post #69 of 385
I"m in the unhappy artifacting club too.

Now, I'm not mad at Sager. They built a machine and I bought it. I went into this with my eyes wide open, and I know a lot more now about GPUs, drivers, and the notebook biz than I did six months ago. Unfortunately. I thought it would be cool to have a notebook that could play top-shelf games; but the technology doesn't seem to be quite in place.

That being said, when people see my 8790 or ask me what kind of hardware I play City of Heroes with, I tell them the truth: I don't recommend the 8790, because of thermal issues and glitchy video artifacts (which may be the same problem). I now recommend that they not buy a notebook for high-end gaming, or, if they must, to look closely at the new HPs with the 17" screens. My sister got one just before Christmas and it seems really solid.
post #70 of 385
Ok, count me out of the "I went into this thing with my eyes wide open" club. Seriously, did anyone in this thread purchase their units accepting the fact that their machines had a good chance of conking out after a few months? And moreover, did anyone think that Sager intended to sell us units that they thought had a good chance of conking out a few months later on? Of course not! If this were truly the level of "acceptable" economics of running a notebook biz (in the 21st century I might add), then I'm opening my own shop first thing tomorrow and I'd love everyone on this thread to be my customer! In "stock market linggo", I'm going to sell you guys junk bonds for the price of blue chips securities! Sound like a good deal?

This stuff happens all the time with new technology and there are different levels of acceptability ... and this ain't one of them. If this was the level of risk that we all expected to pay for when we got our units, then we've all been had! And we know that's simply not the case (at least for most of us). I'm not mad at Sager either .... not yet anyway .... this stuff happens .... but the fact is, ball's in their court ... they simply just need to step up.
post #71 of 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifrit
ok the artifact problem is really pissing me off now. how do i get my laptop serviced from japan. any advice?
IM sent re: servicing from Japan (via Taiwan). I'll send a mail/PM/IM later w/ more info when I have more time, Ifrit 「ちょっと がまん してね!」

I have to say that I went into buying mine w/ my eyes wide open, but that doesn't include thinking that there would be a possible system defect in the works. In all my research, I hadn't seen any similar problems from previous Sager/Clevo models, so it doesn't matter how wide open my eyes were- they weren't ready for this.

G's got a very valid point and I would imagine that it's a huge part of the deal. But like I said, that's me imagining. I've never cleaned out my Sony and I've had it for going on almost 4 years. Never. Now if the 8790 requires a monthly cleaning at minimum, perhaps that should've been something that was stated at the time of purchase (although I know that was most likely not possible being that the unit was new, so they didn't know how it'd perform over the long run). I did clean out the 8790, though- I never treated it like the Sony. Anyway, this seems to be too serious of a problem for too many people for it to be ignored (other than motherboard replacements whilest under warranty). I know my 1 year is now up so I'm out serious money if this happens again (which it might be- I'm still unsure of whether or not mine was fixed in the first place). Warrantech made it clear to me that I pay for the repairs and then they will reimburse me if they feel it's covered. I'm not impressed so far with my limited contact with Warrantech so far.

I, too, would like to see Sager and/or Clevo address this issue. I, for one, am too scared to even play demanding games for any period of time. The only game I've played for any amount of time since I got my machine back's been Civilization III (and I can play that on my Sony VAIO 700mhz). I'm not sure what to suggest, really. If everyone's serious about this, then do as Jetino did and write a factual, informative letter in regards to what's happened to your machine. Only then will anything happen. If we sit here and grouse about it amongst ourselves, most likely nothing will happen. We've got to make it happen if that's what we want.
post #72 of 385
Patience is a virtue that I ran out of a long time ago Friedtoast. I really hope my computer lasts through this year because my financial state is not as good as it should be right now and I can't afford a complete replacement until late next year. My warranty runs out in 2 weeks, and I do have the Warrantech extended warranty. I just don't know how they work.
post #73 of 385
You won't be happy about how the Warrantech warranty works. It requires out-of-pocket expenses. You send it in, get it fixed and then send the invoice to Warrantech. And having already prices a motherboard (~US$1500 here in Japan), I know that puts most of us out of the game in regards to getting anything fixed.
post #74 of 385
Thats right! "Your anger is a GIFT" -RATM

"So raise your fist and march around - and go take what you need!" -RATM

yeah, we should all start sending emails. They dont have to be revolutionary or editorials like Jetino's... but just pester them. heh.

Since when did a computer need a monthly cleaning? I've cleaned mine... say... 4 times since I got it. So thats once every 3 months. maybe more, because it hasn't been a year yet.

I ALWAYS play with the fans on HIGH... like overdrive high. I just play music to drown out the sound. So far I haven't had any contact with SAGER; what email do i send to, and what information regarding my laptop do i have to give to prove that i'm a customer with a problem?

thanks all.

oh yeah and the eyes wide open thing; yeah i was aware that i was buying the latest and greatest of technology available to laptops at the time of purchase.

no i wasnt aware that it wouldn't work as promised one year from purchase date. its a computer; it should always be able to do what you ask it to - just much slower as time passes. this is a defect; it has *broken down*.

don't blame it on the software you shoot at it.

edit:

PCtorque emailed - twice. they didn't get back to me the first time.
Clevo emailed - all emails Fried Toast gave me
Sager emailed - webtechsupport

Since I don't have an invoice number/warranty papers, I'm in a bit of a bind. But emails away!
post #75 of 385
I had several problems with my 8790 and finally got my money back. It was at Sager more than with me and they never were able to fix it. I had all of the common problems but mine occured early on.

I spoke with PC Torque and they were very helpful. Basically, I told them that I was done with the 8790 and wanted my money back. I had Daniel at Sager on speed dial and did not feel that that was right. Maybe they will do that for others.

The 8790 has flaws. Sager just buys them from Clevo and clevo is making newer models which means that they are not focused on the 8790 anymore. It has problems and will continue to have problems. Once your warranty is expired you will be stuck holding the bag.

I bought another laptop from another company. I will not drop names. Their customer service has been great. The laptop's performance has been great and I don't have to pay for shipping back and forth in case something happens. (Shipping added another ~$400 to the price of my 8790 by the time it was all said and done.)

If you want to save yourself the pain, get rid of your 8790 asap while you still have a warranty and a leg to stand on. Get your money back, run away, and run fast.

-S
post #76 of 385
thats pretty alarmist.

i think im going to sell this one once i get the RMA filled out and buy a newer ver. clevo. i still don't mind these comps that much.
post #77 of 385
I got my 8790 back today, decided to celebrate by playing some Guild Wars. About 30 minutes into the game, I notice little green flashes sometimes in the snow. Looks like the artifacting...

I had the back propped up about half an inch to hopefully encourage good air circulation under the thing.

What do I do... now? I just spent $150 in postage to get the laptop back so I could enjoy a bit of gaming over spring break... I really was not expecting this to happen. Well, maybe I was dreading it, and that's why I noticed the first bits of artifact...
post #78 of 385
See my "alarmist" post.

You kept the box didn't you?

-S
post #79 of 385
Always gotta keep the box. Especially us 8790 owners. Ought to be a line on the invoice that states that the box must be kept at all times.
post #80 of 385
I've sent three follow-up emails to Sager in order to get a response from them while following up my RMA. They say that someone from the technical dept. should reply ASAP (but this was last Friday). I spoke with Shaun at PC Torque yesterday and he claims that Sager is currently trying to figure out the artifacting problem. He has promised to keep me updated on any feedback from Sager. Hopefully they come up with an acceptable solution.

Everyone please continue to pester them regarding this so that they make this a top priority.
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