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Dell Precision Workstation M60 Review

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
Updates

After undervolting, I usually sit at 48 when using Firefox+word processor+IM chat; during idle, I get temps around 42 or 43 (Celsius). Still a great computer, even if there is a little more heat generation than I would like.

Well, all programs installed and running. This machine is beautiful.

Photos up! See below. 56k users, BIG post, so let me know if there's a shot you'd like to see and I'll just get it to you.

Benchmark update: please don't hesitate to look at ofelas' benchmarks on his M60 for complete benchmarks. When I ran 3dMark2003 to see if it was my video card that was screwing up DVD playback (see "Cons and Disadvantages), I got 2728, running on battery and screen settings of 1280x1024. No overclocking or any adjustments to nVidea driver. (If I set the screen resolution to native of 1680x1050, I would get an error message.) This score is similar to ofelas's score, so I'd assume that most of the other benchmarks would be similar as well.

Pre-Order up through Ordering

There's quite a story as to why I chose to buy an M60, especially given that my i8600 is less than one year old and has very respectable specs. So for those of you who want to read the story, go ahead -- the next paragraph is only that. The following paragraph resumes with the ordering information and such. For information on my i8600 decision, see my other thread -- http://notebookforums.com/showpost.p...10&postcount=1

I was walking back with my i8600 one day, i8600 in its case in one hand and a jacket in the other. As I approached the door to my residence hall, I had to put the computer on my shoulder (using the carrying strap) so I could use my hand to get the key card. Details aside, the pin connecting the carrying strap to the bag itself snapped, causing my bag to swing like a pendulum toward the ground. And... the inevitable occured -- my i8600 hit the concrete from about three feet up. If dorm food alone didn't ruin my appetite, this incident surely did... why, when using the carrying strap to lift the computer, did it snap? Ah well; what was done was done. When I looked at the computer, however, there was only one crack from the impact and one broken support (near the Fan 1 module). Not too shabby for all those who say Dell computers can't survive anything. Temperatures were up and there was a weird, yellow line running up my screen, but the computer itself was unharmed. Kudos to Dell and the bag company for making things right. Well, I couldn't let the bag company go free, so I called them and asked them what I could do (either about the bag or the computer). I was transferred to a very polite woman who assured me that she would do everything to make sure I was represented in her company. She didn't want me to make a bad name for her company; I wanted compensation of some sort. After about two months, during which I shipped her the bag and the pin, and a few emails later, she told me that the company was willing to pay me for the entire amount of my i8600 -- and the bag and all shipping costs to them. Needless to say, this was a very fair agreement, given that the company did NOT need to do this for me whatsoever. Their warranty specifically mentioned that it did not cover damage to contents, only to the bag. Given that I wanted an M60 to begin with but failed to know that it existed, I took this chance to see if I could get an M60 priced to where my previous computer was (in that ballpark, at least). Thus began some heavy duty phone calls and emails, a few of which alienated me from some Dell reps.

(Keep in mind this next paragraph applies to my order and may not apply to all orders.)

I learned from my i8600 purchase that ordering online is the fool's way of getting ripped off -- well it was for me, given that I didn't a single coupon (only the EPP discount and the discount through my university), so I called in this order to price it. I knew what specs I wanted, though the final processor decision was decided last. After pricing the system online to get a basic feel for what components I would try to bargain (RAM, for instance ), I called the number given to me when I specc'ed out an M60 in the past. (I had tried to convince my parents to buy one one week after I received my i8600, but they weren't interested, and for good reason. Shell out another $750 on an otherwise perfectly capable system? ) In any case, I called five different reps to try to get the best price. I actually angered one of them so much, he told me not to do business with him next time. (I told him that another rep gave me a better deal; I think he took it to mean I wanted him to beat the deal, and so got mad at me.) The final rep I went with wasn't too great -- he simply offered to take the price down about another $150 because he offered me the option to pay through prepaid check (rather than credit card). As a note, computers paid through prepaid checks do tend to take awhile to get into production; first Dell has to receive the check, then they have to process it, and about three days after I sent the bloody check, the computer went into production. Of course, it zipped through everything but spent a day in boxing. In two days, *crosses fingers*, I am supposed to receive an M60 that *better* be free of dead pixels, light leakage, loud HD clicking, and excessive temperatures. I've bought far too many Dells and this one is far too close to return-to-school-time for me to have to ship it back and say "Twenty dead pixels. Gimme another." Let's hope I haven't jinxed it. All told, I get the M60, albeit without a MS Office-type package, for about the same price as the i8600 I got, which, given the M60's price tag of around $3223 as configured, is a good deal, I think.

So... as far as getting the price down. Most of it was the Dell reps. They were able to take off a few hundred right off the top, but one rep took off some more for memory. I'm getting 2x512MB, for example, at a price far cheaper than what Dell normally sells it for. Upgrading a processor also allowed for more financial freedom; I paid less than one-third of what a 735-755 upgrade would be. Each rep, then, added in his or her own personal twist, with the final deciding factor being that pre-paid check option, which took the price down to a very respectable level.

The prepaid check, as I mentioned, took a while to get to Dell. As I shipped it overnight and wanted my computer badly, I called Dell customer support a few times to try to get someone who could answer the simple question of, "Has my check been received by Dell?" The answers were either "No" or "I don't know," which was good given the fact my computer had not moved from "Order is being processed," but I still wanted to know if the check was received. Otherwise, why did I pay nearly fifteen dollars to send a check that wouldn't be received until two days later? (Dell's check request form stated that we should send the check via overnight so that the order would not be cancelled... well, they didn't get it in 24 hours, and the order wasn't cancelled, so I'd say that the line about overnighting it is bogus.) And guess what kind of accent answered the first phone call I made? Yup; Indian. But I understood her clearly and she understood me clearly; she even promised to email me at day's end to let me know if the check had been received. And, in fact, she did do exactly that. I will never recommend my sales rep to anyone as he wasn't very professional in the way he responded to my emails, but this customer rep, she was on top of things. She called me again today to let me know that the computer had shipped. Maybe some customer service reps are horrible, but let me tell you, if Dell has one of these CS reps, there are bound to be more. And she was great. Very patient, knowledgable, and polite about all that I asked. Kudos to Dell, absolutely, for that.

From placing order to receiving computer at door, the entire process was one week and two days. I chose the free shipping (UPS Ground), so figure that if I really needed it badly, I could have paid by credit card (and saved the two-three day check period) and better shipping; I could have had the system in about four days. Again, not bad at all.

First Impressions

What can I say... the M60 looks like its i8600 cousin. There is a neat array of ports on the back of the machine, only one of which my i8600 has. The IR port is right below the PCMCIA slot on the i8600; if you look at the area under the button on the i8600, there is a small rectangle. Well, that rectangle is where the IR port is on the M60. There is an extra USB port (powered) that is directly to the right of the CD/DVD tray. On the i8600, it's just a box with a USB symbol underneath; on the M60, it's an actual port. Hooray for having three ports! Finally I won't have to unplug something to use my USB memory key. (Although, now that I have a parallel port, the third USB becomes somewhat unnecessary, I'll continue to use my USB-parallel dongle and make the most of three ports.) When opened, the M60 does seem to be a *bit* higher than the i8600. Obviously, the blue from the i8600 palmrest and surrounding areas is gone and has been replaced with a silver-greyish lining. Actually, the entire computer's color seems a bit darker than that of the i8600 -- where the i8600 was more of a "silver" color, the M60 seems a little like "grey." There is less of a gap between the hinges of the M60 and the area supporting the hinges. The M60 appears to have a bit more curves to it than the i8600 does; the corner where the speakers meet the palmrest is curved, unlike that one the i8600, which runs horizontally then rises. I got a 90W adapter with the M60; I did not opt for this model (just given to me). My i8600 has the 65W adapter. Keyboard feels about the same in many places, and while I really didn't mind a little bit of flex, I did the mod anyhow. (Shh...) The keys themselves do feel a little bit more solid in their mounts, but whether that's because it hasn't been subjected to wear and tear, I'm not sure. Still a very quiet computer, and in the few minutes I used it to set up Windows (pre-reformat), the sound coming from the speakers was beautiful. Then again, I love Windows' luring music. Computer didn't get warm in that time... good thing! If I roasted, I would have been scared. Dell people still can't put on those stickers at the bottom of the computer... *sigh* Light leakage: there's still a little bit at the bottom of the screen and there's those two lungs (kidneys) at the top center, and unfortunately, it is a great deal more than what I had on the i8600. If Dell wants to fix it without my shipping the computer to them (haha, I don't know if I have Onsite coverage or Mail-in coverage... better check that), I might try to get a different screen. But as I don't do any gaming or much DVD-watching, I may just leave it. Why sacrifice a perfectly good screen otherwise for a little bit of brightness? It hasn't distorted any DVD's that I've previewed yet, so I'd assume it'll be perfectly okay. The light leakage isn't quite as bad as is shown in top FAQ picture of light leakage, but if to pin a percentage of that leakage, I'd probably be between 40% and 50% (closer to 50%). (Just my guess.)
The manual that comes with the M60 is ridiculous... it's completely pointless to have. There's no information about anything of importance in there. It does come in three languages, however, so it's good reading material if you are majoring in languages.

Physical Aspects

Well... looks I covered most of these in the "First Impressions" section. Or take a look at my i8600 review, because the two are very similar. Weight is honestly a wash -- the M60 feels heavier, but after using a bathroom scale to weigh the two machines, the i8600 comes out a teeny-weeny bit heavier. So I'll just call it a wash. Physical dimensions are almost identical, with each dimension (except height from surface to LCD cover) being about two millimeters greater on the M60. The screen does not creak as much on the M60. While the i8600 I have has a screen that creaks slightly, the M60 is virtually silent. The hinges also appear to be less resistant to motion on the M60 (meaning it's easier to open and close the screen). The latch also seems to be more secure, but again, this could be an issue of wear. Battery, too, clicks in with a reassuring "click." The four LEDs -- power, HD activity, battery, and Bluetooth -- is now concealed under a black piece of transparent plastic, as is the power button/volume group. (Power button is lit; there is an LED under there.) The light from the the power status LED (the leftmost of the four) bleeds over to the other three, but that was a similar experience on the i8600. There are no shortcut keys on the M60 (those four buttons next to the "Backspace, "\," "Enter," and "Shift" keys), but there is a trackstick. It's okay; the buttons do take a bit of push to get them to work, but nothing outrageous. I think they're perfectly fine. The keyboard keys seem to be a bit looser on the M60, so that they "clack" a bit more. The i8600 keyboard was closer to being silent.

In the photos, i8600 is on top; M60 on bottom. Also in a few of the left shots, I've Painted over some etched text (ID info for the computer). In no particular order:












































Battery Life

The battery that came with the M60 is an 80W-hr battery. I had a 72W-hr battery on the i8600. I usually get over 3.5 hours of continual internet/SSH use out of the notebook, which is a bit less than my old i8600, but the i8600 had a lower proc, too. Not disappointed with this one's battery life at all.

Other Notebooks

I wanted the M60. Looked at and priced the Sager 3790, but my parents wouldn't have been too keen on spending money on a company they had never heard of. If I had said HP or Gateway, maybe, but Sager simply isn't a household name. And besides, the reason I wanted the M60 was for its GPU -- which in only available in two models of notebooks: the M60 and the Alienware MJ-12. The MJ-12 is supposed to be a faster notebook than the M60, but optioned similarly (even disregarding getting a near top-of-the-line P4 processor), the MJ-12 came out to be around $2900, much more than I was looking to spend. (The thought of bargaining didn't come to my mind at the time.) I felt bad having my parents buy a computer for over $2,000 with the i8600 to begin with -- to have them throw in another $1000 would have been torture. Besides, I was very fond of the i8600 chassis and design and the M60 certainly isn't much different. So M60 it was.

Compared to my i8600, my M60's screen is a little bit worse. DVD playback is a *tiny* bit more fuzzy; not big pixels fuzzy, but almost like a bit of snow. There seems to be a layer of it throughout so that images aren't quite as sharp as they are on the i8600. Also there is the light leakage, but even in a decently dark room, it isn't that noticeable at all. The screen on the M60 seems brighter than that on the i8600; while using the same desktop color, the M60 color seems more vibrant. The M60 does seem to have a bit of the "sparkle" effect, though nothing serious at all. Again, I'm not that picky when it comes to computers. I take note of problems, even very minute ones, but I don't really mind them that much. I put the issues in this review so that people could consider them. I wouldn't consider them to be widespread on all Dell models, however, so take them with a grain of salt.

Software

(Next two paragraphs apply to the i8600 in particular.)

About the time I discovered the M60, I reformatted my 8600. Not a difficult process at all; courtesy of Stu, Jumbie, and Axiom, I was able to format and fix any errors in the morning alone. I had two boot operating systems; Jumbie pointed me to a fix. Stu and Axiom helped answer driver issues (at depth) and general reformat issuses (partioning, for example). This forum is a great place to post questions... so long as they haven't been asked before or covered in the FAQ. (So read the FAQ, people!)

After reformatting, I installed the necessary drivers, then the programs. Office, AIM, Firefox (yup, Firefox is the way to go), and so on. Pretty straightforward.

I use Avast! antivirus (free) and Sygate Personal Firewall (free), both of which, combined with all other running processes, use 1% of my CPU. That's compared to 34% or more when I used McAfee... plus, after the McAfee trial ended, I couldn't get it to shut up. Avast! has been great. (I had Norton on the 8600 prior to the reformat; it worked all right but did use quite a bit of system resources as well.) Sygate is a nice, fun program to have... it logs quite a bit of stuff and the fun part comes when you backtrace random IP addresses.

My two adware detection programs are Spybot and Ad-Aware... they've been great as well. I'm still trying out MS' own software on my "demo" machine, the 4600 desktop, and the results so far are good. I'm not sure if I want to commit another program to my list of background processes. (I can be a speed freak... well more of an OCD speed freak.) Decided that MS' program isn't worth it yet... maybe I'll have to learn the hard way?

I'm definitely a proponent of fangui and Speedswitch. I usually don't change my settings for Speedswitch until I'm running Pro/E; the computer runs perfectly fine before, but the extra boost is slightly noticeable. Fangui manages my fans and is a nice fun program to toy around with. Poor fans.

I haven't really used Wireless too often. It appears the card finds networks very easily but has somewhat of a problem connecting to them. (But not staying connected to them.) I didn't get the Dell 1350 because the thought never really came to me to spend $19 more for a feature I don't find myself using all too often. In my opinion, the i8600 or M60 is quite large a computer to tote around and use as a completely wireless computer. Around the house, sure, but I feel that the power of the two is definitely on par with some desktops, so prefer to keep things in-line with a desktop: external mouse, plugged in Ethernet and power. When I do go out to use the wireless, it works decently, and with that, I'm satisfied.

I will use Pro/Engineer Wildfire 2.0 on the M60. As its licensed software of the University of Illinois, I can only get it free while on campus. Once it's installed, I'll let you know how it runs on here compared to on the i8600. (i8600 runs it quite decently.) I ran it once, but as I haven't designed to the level of several parent/child assemblies, I can't tell exactly how quickly it responds, But it does *feel* faster than the i8600; I know that if I kick SSXP into "Max Performance," programs load very, very quickly, much faster than on the i8600 (with a 1.6 Banias proc). This computer is fast.

My M60 came with a Roxio CD-burner program, unlike my i8600, which came with Sonic. I haven't tried out the program yet. My favorite burning program is still Nero, but because my copy came with an OEM drive, I can only use the prorgam to burn a CD on the computer that has that drive in it. (I can burn images, however... lot of good they do me when I need the CD!)

Cons and disadvantages

Cost is one. A similarly-equipped i8600 can be had for hundreds less.
The thing runs hotter than my i8600. On battery power a few days ago, the i8600 idled at 20 degrees C (granted it was quite cool in the house; we had the windows open); the M60 was around 50 the entire time, also on battery. I was on the internet and DLing, so the temps would naturally be higher than those of the i8600, but chalk up this one to a faster processor.
I'm having some trouble watching DVDs -- there are horizontal bars going across the screen, much like horizontal rain, but it only occurs when I'm watching DVDs (so far) -- not, say, when I'm online.
Fixed! There wasn't a video driver installed on the computer... installed the appropriate driver and the flickering went away. What a relief...
This machine produces quite a bit of heat. I hit 60 (when fans kicked in) just surfing the web three times today. I now have FanGUI to kick in at 70, and every fifteen minutes or so, I'll hit 70 (on the CPU). The video card idles -- meaning just surfing the net and typing -- at 69 or 70; the CPU, when not running anything but AIM, stays between 51 and 54, depending on the room temperature.
For some reason, this past week, the M60 has been idling around 50 rather than 60. Video card around 60 rather than 70. No complaints here.
I called Dell to complain about the CPU heat production, and I was amazed at the response. For one, the people I spoke to (I spoke to two, with one transfer between them) spoke clear English, unlike some of the claims about Dell service. Second, they shipped out a system board, CPU, and fan/heat sink kit that day. I received the parts the next day, and as promised, a service tech gave me a call to check up on whether the parts had arrived. (I received the parts on a Friday.) We set up a meeting for the following Wednesday, and today, everything got swapped out and I'm back using the computer again. That is attention to service!

Compared to other machines...

Well, probably takes a second seat to the Alienware MJ-12 while running intensive programs, but with a 755 proc, it will hold its own quite well and is certainly faster than my i8600. It was kinda sad to see that computer go... it was really a terrific computer. Who would have known... in The Bourne Identiy, the branch of CIA known as "Treadstone" was disbarred; I named my computer the same thing, not knowing that it, too, would be met with an unfortunate, short-lived, end.

[ongoing. Some sections not finished.] I hope that helps. If anyone has any questions, feel free to PM me.

Xing
post #2 of 28
Its a great notebook. I've had mine for almost a year and half now.
post #3 of 28
Roger that.
post #4 of 28
Dude, your lack of spec's is killin me. But I'll be happy with one answer, 700 or 1000?
post #5 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxiomofIllusion
Dude, your lack of spec's is killin me. But I'll be happy with one answer, 700 or 1000?
Sorry... I forgot. I was going to add specs to the sig once the M60 arrived (so I could check the screen manufacturer), so left it out of the sig. Anyhow, specs now in sig.

Should I download that utility (http://notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=57840) to scrub my HD or will all partitions, hidden or visible, be listed on the list of drives while reformatting?
post #6 of 28
No need for any utility, as the XP CD will list all partitions when booted from; delete every partition (the diagnostics/hidden partition will show up as a FAT partition).
post #7 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmnstrunr37
Anyhow, specs now in sig.
That's my boy. God I love that card
post #8 of 28
Thread Starter 
Computer's here...

I think that my i8600 is upset now.
post #9 of 28
you can send it to me if you want..you know.. it'll be with family
post #10 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxiomofIllusion
you can send it to me if you want..you know.. it'll be with family
Can't... have to get it back to the computer bag company. Long story... I'll PM if you want.
post #11 of 28
Ah yes, "the accident" with "the strap."

j/k yeh I would be interested to hear how you pulled that one off. I love the company i got my bag through but i know if i did that they would tell me i'm sol.
post #12 of 28
Photos plz ^^
post #13 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 15003
Photos plz ^^
We're getting there... I need to get back on campus before I can get a digital camera.
post #14 of 28
The Alienware MJ-12 looks like a Clevo - similar to a Sager 9860. The 9860s I've seen run really hot on the palm wrists and even hotter on the trackpad. They weigh *much* more than the m60, are very large in size, have terrible battery life (90 min) and don't have a workstation class video card. I think you made the best choice.
post #15 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Each Hit
The Alienware MJ-12 looks like a Clevo - similar to a Sager 9860. The 9860s I've seen run really hot on the palm wrists and even hotter on the trackpad. They weigh *much* more than the m60, are very large in size, have terrible battery life (90 min) and don't have a workstation class video card. I think you made the best choice.
Thankee! I do, too.

I will admit, however, that buying a computer this often wreaks havoc on me mind, lads... going through the hassle of a potentially screwed-up "something" that causes erroneous DVD playback is annoying, and to have reformatted ffive computers in the last six months... arg, it's kind of annoying. Too much waiting.
post #16 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmnstrunr37
Cons and disadvantages
The thing runs hotter than my i8600. On battery power, the i8600 idled at 20 degrees (Celsius); the M60 has been around 50 the entire time. Granted I'm on the internet now on it and am DLing, so the temps will go up... but chalk up this one to a faster processor.
Nice Review!! Wish we had you to review all the Dell models.

I had an 8600 with the 1.6Ghz Dothan and the CPU always ran in the mid 40's to around 50. Even just idling it heated up quickly. Sounds like your 8600 ran alot cooler than mine ever did.

This may be a stupid question, but what is the difference between a Latitude D800 and M60 besides the video card options?
post #17 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrontierDriver2
This may be a stupid question, but what is the difference between a Latitude D800 and M60 besides the video card options?
Nothing that can't be fixed by simply flashing a D800 with the M60 BIOS. This essentially turns a D800 into the M60 by allowing support for 333MHz RAM.

gmnstrunr37: Windows 2003 would run sweet on your new machine.
post #18 of 28
Can't wait to put 2003 Server on my M60...the minute a BlueTooth driver is released, the Server 2003 CD gets selected as the boot device

somms - does the follwing software work on Server 2003?

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...DisplayLang=en
post #19 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrontierDriver2
Nice Review!! Wish we had you to review all the Dell models.

I had an 8600 with the 1.6Ghz Dothan and the CPU always ran in the mid 40's to around 50. Even just idling it heated up quickly. Sounds like your 8600 ran alot cooler than mine ever did.

This may be a stupid question, but what is the difference between a Latitude D800 and M60 besides the video card options?
Aww, jeez. *blush* I'm much too verbose for my own good.

My i8600 *usually* sat around 42 degrees (C) when running AIM and surfing the web. When running Pro/Engineer, it would heat up to about 52 ot 55, but not too much more. After the fall, it leveled at about 45 for basic internet and up to 58 or so while running Pro/E. The M60 hits 60 pretty consistently, but for some reason, it doesn't seem like the HD heats up the palmrest as quickly or as thoroughly.

And yup; somms hit it on the head with the D800/M60 differences. The M60 and D800 are blame near identical save the video cards and a BIOS upgrade on the D800. (Read the FAQ for a basic description of this.)

post #20 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by somms
gmnstrunr37: Windows 2003 would run sweet on your new machine.
I'll consider it... but who knows what OS ends up on there. I might even switch to Linux one day.
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