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Discussion Thread: AMD64/AMD64 Turion with PCI express - Page 6

post #101 of 125
Quote:
I dont care if Microsoft grabbing me, I dont have ANY original product of Bill Gates
You don't use any Microsoft Office products?
You don't use MSN Messenger or Windows Messenger?
You don't use Microsoft Windows?
You don't use the MS-DOS Prompt?
You don't use Microsoft Internet Explorer?
You don't use Microsoft Mice and/or Keyboards?
You don't play any Microsoft games?
You don't use any .NET platforms?

I'm sure you don't use Microsoft products.


Quote:
I have an open mind but im not an ass ! AMD offer a best product for less money!!!! THIS IS A FACT
You do not have an open mind.
You are an ass.
It is not a fact AMD offers the best product for less money.
You are wrong.



Geez some you guys are really close-minded. Microsoft is a monopoly, true, but that does not mean all of their products suck. Just because your an AMD fan boy doesnt mean you have to dismiss/make up excuses whenever Intel does something a little better than AMD. Open your minds and see the world
post #102 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelX30
Benchmarks Ive seen though show that DDR-II @ 533 MHz does have a higher bandwidth than DDR-I @ 333 MHz. But maybe that isn't what you mean?

There are two main factors in deciding the overall effectiveness of the Memory Bus,

1) Bandwidth, which consists of width of the bus X the effective memory speed, which in turn is <mem clock X data rate/cycle>

2) Memory latency, which as 5 primary factors
  • a. CMD rate == rate fo mem controller accessing the bus unit on the mem chip.
  • b. tRP == time of Row Precharge, time for reaching a dielectric state before Access Strobe.
  • c. tRAS == time of Row Access (address) strobe
  • d. tRCD == RAS to CAS delay
  • e. CAS == Column accesse(address) strobe latency.

First, it is not accurate to call the PM based platform having higher bandwidth. This question depends on comparing to what.

PM + Alviso have 64-bit or single channel memory, running a base mem clock of 133MHz with the 4X signal rate (2x peak + 2x trough) rate for DDR-II, and will have a higher bandwidth than any single channelled DDR-I system running at 400MHz (PC3200, what most MA64 systems are)

But the same PM Alviso will have smaller bandwidth against S939 A64, or P4 for that matter, which have 128 -bit memory interface, although running at only 75% of the signal rate of DDR-II 533.

But that is not the issue at all, because DDR-II have much higher latency than DDR-I, so in order for the memory to have equitable performance, DDR-II needs to run at a higher rate to equalize. It's fairly difficult to estimate the exact amount of difference in latency, it will depend on the individual models of memory chips and the system chipset make/model.

The DDR-II will have higher latency in tRP and tRCD, so the sonoma platform will have higher latency in these areas than the original Centrino with DDR-I. On top of that, more importantly, the A64 has on die memory controller, so the CMD for the A64 is the {mem controller --> bus unit} alone, but the PM CMD rate is {CPU bus --> chipset mem controlle --> bus unit} which will be much higher, on the order of twice the amount of clock cycles.

So overall effective memory speed:
PM with DDR-II 533 ~= PM with DDR-I 400
PM with DDR-II 533 <= A64 with DDR-I 400 (single channel)
PM with DDR-II 533 <<< A64 with DDR-I 400 (dual channel)


Edit: So DDR-II 533 can have higher OR lower overall bandwidth compared to DDR-I 333, depending on the mem bus width. And also the bandwidth itself does not determine total memory score in a benchmark, but it's a combination of bandwidth and mem latency.
post #103 of 125
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post #104 of 125
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post #105 of 125
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post #106 of 125
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Luke's response about AMD64 PCIE update (scroll down and find luke)

http://notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=63685
post #107 of 125
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post #108 of 125
More on the ATI Radeon Xpress 200M...

http://news.com.com/ATI+rolls+out+ne...3-5581054.html
Quote:
ATI rolls out new notebook chipset
Published: February 17, 2005, 12:26 PM PST
By John G. Spooner
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

Graphics chip maker ATI on Thursday rolled out a new chipset for notebook PCs with Advanced Micro Devices' processors.

ATI's Radeon Xpress 200M, the latest in a new line of ATI chipsets for 2005, incorporates a graphics processor, along with a PCI Express connection for add-in cards. It also supports Microsoft's DirectX 9 graphics software.

The chipset, whose graphics are equivalent to ATI's entry-level Radeon X300 standalone graphics chip, will allow notebooks to work with AMD's mobile Sempron and Mobile Athlon 64 processors, as well as the forthcoming AMD Turion low-power chip line for lightweight notebooks, ATI said in a statement.

Sharp's Mebius PCXG-70H and Mebius PCXG-50H media center notebook PCs are among the first to incorporate the Radeon Xpress 200M. However, several other companies, including Acer, Gateway and Hewlett-Packard, are developing notebooks around it, as well, ATI said.
http://www.biosmagazine.co.uk/article.php?id=1470
Quote:
ATI has introduced the industry's first integrated PCI Express DirectX 9.0 chipset for AMD processor-based laptops. The Radeon Xpress 200M supports all currently available Mobile AMD Athlon 64 processors and Mobile AMD Sempron processors, but is ideally suited for thin-and-light laptops powered by the forthcoming AMD Turion 64 mobile technology thanks to its power management functionality. The Radeon X300-class part adds ATI's PowerPlay 5.0 power conservation system and also incorporates HyperMemory, ATI's AGP-like technique for connecting the graphics core to the main system memory. Built on a .13-micron process with a 350MHz graphics core speed and 128-bit system memory interface the processor also supports up to 128MB of dedicated video RAM, as well as AMD processors connected across an 800MHz or 1GHz HyperTransport bus. Up to four PCI-E x1 lanes for general connectivity are included, along with eight USB 2.0 ports, seven PCI slots, and Serial ATA with Raid 0 and 1. The Radeon Xpress 200M is currently available from Sharp Electronics in its Mebius PCXG-70H and Mebius PCXG-50H media centre laptop PCs, but products from other manufacturers will follow shortly.

Pros: DirectX 9.0, OpenGL and Media Center Edition 2005 support
Cons: Supports a maximum of just 128MB of dedicated video RAM

Edited Release: ATI Technologies Inc. (TSX:ATY) (NASDAQ:ATYT), the world leader for laptop PC graphics, has announced the introduction of Radeon Xpress 200M - the industry's first integrated PCI Express DirectX 9 chipset for AMD (NYSE: AMD) processor-based laptop PCs.

Designed to support a range of form factors, Radeon Xpress 200M delivers industry-leading Radeon graphics and PowerPlay 5.0 power management for a best-in-class mobile user experience. Flexible in design, Radeon Xpress 200M supports all currently available Mobile AMD Athlon 64 processors and Mobile AMD Sempron processors. Due to its power management functionality, Radeon Xpress 200M is ideally suited for thin and light laptops powered by forthcoming AMD Turion 64 mobile technology.

Radeon Xpress 200M for AMD will be available from such leading OEMs and ODMs as HP, Sharp, Medion, Acer, Targa, Gateway, NEC, Mitac, Arima, MSI, Compal, Quanta and Wistron. 'ATI is now offering a leading edge PCI Express mobile solution with excellent performance, lightning-fast onboard DirectX 9 graphics and innovative power management,' said Marty Seyer, vice president and general manager, Microprocessor Business Unit, Computation Products Group, AMD. 'Together with the upcoming AMD Turion 64 mobile technology, we're helping highly mobile PC customers embrace thin and light platforms for powerful system performance, broad connectivity and superior multimedia capabilities.'

With the introduction of Radeon Xpress 200M, ATI delivers onboard Radeon X300 class visual performance and features. This visual performance is complimented by PowerPlay 5.0, an innovation in power management for PCI Express. Through new capabilities such as Dynamic Lane Count Switching (DLCS), power is adjusted on the fly to reduce GPU power consumption by up to 30 per cent.

'ATI has long been a pioneer in integrated chipset technology on laptops,' said Phil Eisler, Senior Vice President and General Manager, Integrated and Mobile Business Unit, ATI Technologies. 'Through working closely with AMD on the development of these chipsets we have a compelling platform to harness the performance of present and future generations of mobile AMD processors.'

BIOS, 21.02.05
post #109 of 125
AMD Market Share estimates...

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20050205A2003.html
Quote:
AMD aims to boost its share of the notebook-CPU market to 12-15%
David Tzeng, Taipei; Steve Shen, DigiTimes.com [Saturday 5 February 2005]

With the introduction of its 64-bit enabled Turion 64 processor, Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) is looking to push its market share in the notebook-CPU segment to 12-15% in 2005, compared to the 5-8% share it had previously, according to sources at Taiwan PC makers.

AMD, together with a number of leading vendors, including Hewlett-Packard (HP), Acer, Asustek Computer and PC distributors, will wage a promotional campaign worldwide on April 18 to promote the Turion 64-based notebooks, the sources said.

Vendors participating in the campaign will unveil new notebooks built using AMD Turion 64 2800+ and 3000+ CPUs, with power consumption averaging 25W or 35W, depending on models, the sources noted.

Although AMD has set the prices of its Turion 64 CPUs about 13% cheaper, on average, than Intel’s Pentium M (Dothan) processors, some vendors have suggested that AMD needs to aggressively lower Turion 64 CPU prices to around 25% lower than P4 M CPUs, in order to gain market share from Intel, the sources said.

The sources also pointed out that HP might raise the proportion of AMD-based notebooks to 50% of its total sales in 2005, from about 20-30% in 2004, citing speculation in the market.

Acer expects its shipments of AMD-compatible notebooks to increase 20-30% in 2005, from about 1.0-1.2 million units it shipped in 2004, said company sources. Acer shipped 3.9 million notebooks worldwide last year, according to data from International Data Corporation (IDC).

Asustek plans to launch five or six AMD-based notebooks this year, compared to just one or two models launched a year previously, said company sources. Shipments of AMD-compatible notebooks accounted for 5% of Asustek’s total shipments of 700,000 own-brand notebooks last year.
post #110 of 125
Acer news...yeah, it's for India, so all your Dell service techs will probably be on Acer AMD64 notebooks ...it's a pretty interesting read nonetheless...I'll also post this in the new Acer section...

http://www.expresscomputeronline.com...market01.shtml
Quote:
Acer’s notebook ambitions

After bouncing back onto the Indian notebook scene in Q4, 2004, Acer is gunning for a place in the Top 3, says Akhtar Pasha

Acer’s giving a stiff fight to Dell and Toshiba in the battle for the third position in the hotly contested Indian notebook segment. The first two slots are held by IBM and HP. After dropping a notch in AMJ and JAS, 2004, Acer has bounced back with sales of 6,000 units in the October to December quarter of 2004 bagging significant orders from BPCL and Tyco. Defence and educational sales to universities in Nagpur, Cochin and north India contributed their mite, bringing in 25 percent of the numbers.

S Rajendran, general manager, Sales & Marketing, Consumer Product Group (CPG), Acer India, says, “The OND, 2004 sales have come about due to the sales of our entry-level notebooks. We saw a dip in AMJ and JAS, 2004 sales. During this period we were making a transition from Pentium to Centrino mobile processors.” The company stabilised after this transition and came back strongly in OND, 2004. Rajendran expects Acer’s notebook sales in JFM, 2005, a quarter in which last minute deals are expected to happen after the budget, to echo its stellar turn in OND 2004.

Value-based strategy

Acer has always been a price warrior. Because of its economies of scale, the company has driven the notebook market by undercutting competitors. In 2002 it was the first vendor to bring a sub-Rs 60,000 notebook to market. The following year, it introduced a sub-Rs 50,000 portable and in 2004, a sub-Rs 40,000 (priced at Rs 39,999) unit. Although JAS, 2004 found Acer, HP and IBM exiting this price bracket, Acer re-entered it with the TravelMate 240, a Mobile Intel Celeron processor-based model at the same price point that offered superior value for money (larger memory, 256 MB RAM, DVD or CDR-W combo drive) and a 40 GB HDD when compared to its predecessor that had been dropped in AMJ. Acer’s unceasing efforts have led to a drop in the average unit price of a notebook and have therefore been crucial in driving the expansion of the Indian notebook market. Rajendran says, “Our entry-level line up includes the TravelMate 2300, the TravelMate 240 and TravelMate 250. These account for 55 percent of our notebook sales. The TravelMate 4000 series contributes 35 percent and the balance comes from the high-end Ultra and Tablet series as well as the Ferrari.”

The performance of the Aspire 1362 has silenced critics and analysts who say that AMD-based notebooks are not up to scratch

S Rajendran General Manager, Sales & Marketing, Consumer Product Group (CPG) Acer India

By launching a notebook built around AMD’s Sempron mobile processor (See box: Aspire 1362 series), Acer is employing its pricing card yet again and dropping entry-level notebook prices by 15 percent. The Aspire 1362 features 256 MB of memory, a combo drive with a 15-inch TFT screen and is priced at Rs 35,999.

This product, along with Acer’s bestselling TravelMate 2300 Series, will form the spearhead of its mass market offensive during JFM 2005. Acer has made design changes to its AMD-based Sempron M (Aspire 1362)—air-flow is better and a more powerful fan has been used. It is also providing an international travel warranty to its buyers, something, the company claims, other vendors do not. The company hopes that this will be a big draw.

Although there are other vendors that sell notebooks at this or lower price points (sub-40K) namely Zenith, ACi and Kobian, some of the competing models are based on VIA processors or use desktop processors and ship with less memory (128 MB) and smaller HDDs (20 GB).

While a 36K notebook looks quite attractive, analysts are quick to point out that sub-40K notebooks are not part of India’s mobile computing mainstream. Sanjit Sinha, senior manager, hardware research, IDC India says, “The Rs 50,000 to Rs 60,000 price band accounts for the bulk of notebook sales in India with around 70 percent being Wi-Fi capable.” Analysts are sceptical and state that entry-level notebooks are not part of the volume market. They also say that the AMD Sempron mobile processor requires a larger fan for cooling and this adds weight to the design. Wireless is also missing from the package.

The AMD 64-bit processor ‘Turion’, which has wireless capability, and is the equivalent of Intel’s Centrino is arriving soon (See box-AMD’s 64-bit mobile processor—Turion).

Acer, for its part, claims to have sorted out these two issues by going for a Folio design with latch-less locking. Rajendran says, “The increased air vents in the design improve air-flow and in conjunction with a powerful fan enhance battery life. The AMD Sempron mobile processor offers a longer battery life than the Celeron M processor.”

Even if the notebook is heavy, at Rs 35,999 it is sure to find some takers. Acer says that there is a significant market in the education segment with students in management institutes and the like looking for industry-standard notebooks that offer a better price-to-performance ratio. It is targeting this community with the Aspire 1362. The company is offering an additional discount of Rs 2,500 to drum up sales.

Off to a good start

Just five days after the launch of the Aspire 1362, Acer ran out of stock selling 500 units to students who registered online using their student IDs to avail of the Rs 2,500 discount. Rajendran says, “We underestimated this market. The performance of the Aspire 1362 has silenced critics and analysts who say that AMD-based notebooks are not up to scratch.”

Retail footprint

Acer’s product offerings are backed by a strong retail footprint. It set up 112 retail outlets (33 are Acer Malls and the rest Acer Points) covering 25 towns in 2004. The Acer Mall retails Acer desktops and notebooks along with competing products from other companies. Acer Points have a corner devoted to promoting the company’s products.

The response to these retail outlets has been encouraging. Customers walking in looking for a desktop PC can be convinced that paying 10 to 12 percent more for a notebook works out to be a better deal. Rajendran adds, “These retail outlets account for up to 40 percent of CPG’s sales. For notebooks, we have seen a quantum jump of 150 percent in retail sales.” A normal outlet that sold an average of three notebooks per month, sells four-five units per month after becoming an Acer Mall or Acer Point. Naturally the company plans to add another hundred outlets in 2005 focussing on B&C class cities. Rajendran says, “These small towns are equally important for us in meeting our business objectives.”

A Centrino notebook for Rs 49,999 Acer has slashed prices of its Centrino-based notebook, the TravelMate 4000 series, from Rs 53,999 to Rs 49,999. At that price it offers a full-featured notebook with 256 MB memory and a 40 GB HDD. For the first time, Acer had introduced a DVD-R or CD-RW combo drive and ‘802.11 b and g’ integrated wireless capability in its entry-level TravelMate notebook, the 2300 series.

The company bundled the DLP projector PD 113 series with the TravelMate 2300 for Rs 99,999. The combo can be converted into a home theatre by adding Dolby speakers. The bundling of Dolby speakers is done by retailers at an additional cost of Rs 3,000 to Rs 5,000 depending upon the wattage required by the customer. Rajendran says, “We feel that there is an opportunity and a market for projectors and notebooks, especially for the home and SMB segments and this offer goes one step further towards making us an active player in this market.”

Acer expects that post-budget, in March 2005, sales will peak irrespective of any change in duty structures. This is Acer’s big chance to gain a slot in the Top 3. Looking at its aggressive pricing strategy and expanding national retail footprint, Acer has a good chance of pulling it off provided it can recreate its OND 2004 magic.

Folio concept design
In Q4, 2004, Acer launched its new range of professional notebooks (TravelMate 2300 series and TravelMate 4000 series) based on a folio concept industrial design. The new dual spindle slim and light range of metallic coloured notebooks feature the Acer logo, a latch-less lock design and an Acer Fine Touch ergonomic keyboard with a 5-degree curve to make typing more comfortable.


AMD's 64-bit mobile processor-Turion
AMD is upping the ante in its fight against Intel’s Centrino. Its new 64-bit mobile processor, Turion supports the PowerNow battery-saving technology and brings 64-bit computing to the notebook arena. AMD says that it has tailored its upcoming processor family to suit highly mobile business professionals and consumers who demand reliable, high-performance notebook PCs with a long battery life, wireless compatibility, rich graphics and enhanced security. Sanjeev Keskar, country manager, AMD Far East India says, “Turion is a 64-bit mobile processor, which is expected to hit the Indian market as early as Q2 2005.”

Redefining the entry-level notebook
For an entry-level notebook, the new Aspire 1362 offers an AMD Sempron 2800 mobile processor, 256 MB DDR RAM, 40 GB HDD, CD RW-DVD combo, 15-inch TFT screen, folio design with pre-installed Linux and a one year international warranty. Acer is offering an additional discount of Rs 2,500 for students to increase sales in JFM 2005.
post #111 of 125
Acers recent low prices strategy is probably what pushed IBM to get rid of the Thinkpad brand. Thinkpads were slipping behind technology wise anyway though, and there is still no 64 bit CPUs, no widescreen etc in Thinkpads... Maybe IBM should aquire Acer
post #112 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramificatio
Acers recent low prices strategy is probably what pushed IBM to get rid of the Thinkpad brand. Thinkpads were slipping behind technology wise anyway though, and there is still no 64 bit CPUs, no widescreen etc in Thinkpads... Maybe IBM should aquire Acer
ibm only good at 180 wide angle screen n good body build, everything else is sort of overpriced. 64 bit memory card with 1gb of ram , 1.8 PM cost almost 3k. with that price u can get a 9860 DTR from PC torque already.
post #113 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by unholy
ibm only good at 180 wide angle screen n good body build, everything else is sort of overpriced. 64 bit memory card with 1gb of ram , 1.8 PM cost almost 3k. with that price u can get a 9860 DTR from PC torque already.
And IBM said they couldn't make a proffit with their Thinkpads...
post #114 of 125
Any news a on a mobile nforce chipset?
post #115 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramificatio
And IBM said they couldn't make a proffit with their Thinkpads...
and there is Thinkpad T41 ---> T42 ---> T42p then now T43...........IBM is not making profits..........
post #116 of 125
Another article about ATI and future AMD products...

Linkage:
http://www.vnunet.com/news/1161577

Quote:
ATI focuses new line of mobile graphics solutions on end-users
Firm rolls out chipset aimed at AMD-based notebooks
Martin Lynch, Computer Reseller News 28 Feb 2005

Graphics chip maker ATI Technologies has rolled out a slew of mobile graphics products, aimed at the AMD notebook and high-end mobile workstation markets.

The company has introduced the Radeon Xpress 200M chipset, claiming it is the first integrated PCI Express DirectX 9 chipset for AMD-based notebooks. Designed for different form factors, the 200M supports all Mobile AMD Athlon 64 and Sempron processors.

The company also claimed that its power management feature, Powerplay 5, makes it suitable for thin and light notebooks powered by AMD's forthcoming Turion 64 technology.

Notebooks boasting the new chipset are expected from OEMs and ODMs including Medion, Targa, Mitac, Gateway, MSI, Compal, Hewlett-Packard (HP) and Sharp.

"ATI is offering a leading edge PCI Express mobile solution with great performance, lightning-fast onboard DirectX 9 graphics and innovative power management," claimed Marty Seyer, general manager of the microprocessor business unit at AMD's Computation Products Group.

"Together with the upcoming AMD Turion 64 mobile technology, we're helping highly mobile PC customers embrace thin and light platforms for powerful system performance, broad connectivity and superior multimedia capabilities."

ATI has also unveiled the Mobility FireGL V5000 graphics accelerator for mobile workstations. HP is the first vendor to support the processor and will feature it in the HP/Compaq nw8240 Mobile Workstation.

ATI boasted that mobile professionals will, for the first time, be using the same geometry processing hardware found in high-end PCs. It comes with eight-pixel pipelines, lower power consumption, six geometry engines and 128MB of GDDR3 memory.

"This combination of technologies is ideal for professional graphics users who need to run 3D-intensive applications," said Chris Convertito, product manager for HP's mobile workstations. "The new HP Compaq nw8240 lets us take advantage of ATI's technology to deliver performance without sacrificing image quality."

crn@vnu.co.uk
post #117 of 125
Clevo D900K? Here is the link to the rumour. http://notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=66516
post #118 of 125
Man, that T43 is tempting...
post #119 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunterzyph
Man, that T43 is tempting...
by changin the video card to 6800 ultra, ya.........
post #120 of 125
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