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Apple+Cell Processor=World Domination

post #1 of 24
2/7/05 at 7:21pm
Thread Starter 
I just finished reading an article on the new Sony/IBM/Toshiba cell processor. This thing is based on a powerpc architecture and will house 8 cores on one chip running at 4 ghz! In a nutshell all the experts agree this chip literally is a supercomputer on a chip. How pimp would it be if through the cooperation of IBM, apple incorporate the cell chip into its powermac or better yet powerbook line! I think its doable simply because the cell chip is based on the powerpc design. Hackers could then turn the PS3 into a powerhouse apple computer! I think the cell processor would make Apple a force to be reckoned with!
Update: People are estimating that this chip is 10 times more powerful than anything Intel or AMD has to offer!!! How crazy would it be if the cell architecture eventually replaced the x86 platform??
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post #2 of 24
2/7/05 at 7:39pm
I think they would prob use the chip for themselves rather than give it to Apple to use. They all make desktop computers.
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post #3 of 24
2/7/05 at 7:39pm
and probably costs 1000 times the price of either processor. ;p
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post #4 of 24
2/7/05 at 7:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nark
and probably costs 1000 times the price of either processor. ;p
i doubt it, since they are planning to use this for the ps3.
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post #5 of 24
2/7/05 at 7:45pm
Thread Starter 
Its intresting to speculate if Sony will use the cell chip in its line of Viao computers, but i think there would be a far greater chance of apple using it in there line simply because it would run OS X. Windows would have to be re-written to run on it. That or Sony and Toshiba would run windows over virtual pc! Either way it would still be faster than the current gen.
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post #6 of 24
2/7/05 at 10:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyren
i doubt it, since they are planning to use this for the ps3.
seems too good to be true though.
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post #7 of 24
2/8/05 at 12:29am
Ibm/Sony/Toshiba will massproduce Cell so that it doesn't cost a lot.

Good site with lot of estimation about Cell architecture and power.
http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cells/Cell0.html

Also, I saw an article today where they said that sony/ibm had a running cell computer in their lab that is currently running multiple OS at the same time. One of them was Linux.
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post #8 of 24
2/8/05 at 8:10am
Either way, I like the fact that someone will invade the Intel and AMD camps with some fresh ideas. Things have been stagnant in the processor business for too long. The competition is very welcome here IMHO, and I do think the market will end up asking for this processor to be in PC's. We'll just have to learn Linux or (heaven fobid!) OSX...

Maybe we can see something like this in the Video card sector to give both ATI and NVIDIA a shake?
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post #9 of 24
2/8/05 at 5:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyren
I think they would prob use the chip for themselves rather than give it to Apple to use. They all make desktop computers.
Not anymore.
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post #10 of 24
2/8/05 at 5:45pm
I think it is very likely that Cell will end up in Macs since the cores of the PowerPC is already so similar. But it's impossible to end up in Sony VAIO because that requires an x86 processor.
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post #11 of 24
2/8/05 at 7:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltawalkerl
I think it is very likely that Cell will end up in Macs since the cores of the PowerPC is already so similar. But it's impossible to end up in Sony VAIO because that requires an x86 processor.
Umm, not exactly. The companies developing it all sell Windows based PC's. It will more than likely be compatible with many OS's though based on the articles published today. The only confirmed one is Linux.

Quote:
And IBM Corp. has said it will sell a workstation with the chip starting later this year.
Who knows what OS that will run though. Will they throw a nix on it? or as it sounds, will it be able to run many different OS's.
Quote:
"It's very flexible," said Jim Kahle, an IBM fellow. "We support many operating systems with our virtualization technology so we can run multiple operating systems at the same time, doing different jobs on the system."
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post #12 of 24
2/8/05 at 8:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kronus
Umm, not exactly. The companies developing it all sell Windows based PC's. It will more than likely be compatible with many OS's though based on the articles published today. The only confirmed one is Linux.
It may be able to run Linux, but it's not compatible with the PC platform. It's not an x86 processor. Not CISC even. Therefore it won't make its way into a PC (which is what the VAIO is) and it will never run Windows. (Unless MS makes Windows available for PowerPC platforms. LOL...that's a funny scenario.)
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post #13 of 24
2/8/05 at 9:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltawalkerl
It may be able to run Linux, but it's not compatible with the PC platform. It's not an x86 processor. Not CISC even. Therefore it won't make its way into a PC (which is what the VAIO is) and it will never run Windows. (Unless MS makes Windows available for PowerPC platforms. LOL...that's a funny scenario.)
The guy from IBM is saying they support many operating systems with their "virtualization technology". Who knows what those will be. We know almost nothing about this new tech. because they haven't released any specifics. I wouldn't be so sure about anything yet. We don't know how they modded the IBM power processor and what new technologies they added to it.
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post #14 of 24
2/9/05 at 1:37pm
LOL we've seen this crap again and again in the industry. PS2 was suppose to be revolutionizing, and it obviously wasn't. So was Transmeta. Itanium. etc etc.

Ask yourself this, if Cell technology was this powerful, WHY WOULD IT NEED AN NVIDIA GPU?

Don't buy into the hype. I remember back when the PS2 was released, the government thought it was so powerful that it was worried that Saddam was buying them to equip missiles with. Of course, it was all hype back then too.
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post #15 of 24
2/9/05 at 2:14pm
The big question for the Cell will be how hard will it be to program. Based on the specs its going to be a bear to code to. If complexity creates too much lag in game releases, it will kill the PS3, no matter how fast it is.

Second, a modern GPU is very similar to a cell process...a central cpu with multiple vector processors (pipelines, shaders, etc). In the future I expect more and more general processing to shift to the GPU. OSX Tiger moves a lot GUI display processing to the shader engines of the GPU, and Longhorn will do so as well. Without a fast, top of the line Shader 2/3 compatible GPU both of those OSs will be hobbled. In the future the GPU may replace the CPU as the main component and system board of the computer with the CPUs residing on the expansion card.

Third, 4Ghz means heat. How much power does the Cell draw and how hot does it get? Can it realistically be used in laptops, especially one's that meet Apple's specs. Apple still can't get the G5 in a laptop due to heat and noise contraints. In the near future, laptops are going to replace desktops as the primary consumer computer platform.
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post #16 of 24
2/9/05 at 2:20pm
Quote:
(Unless MS makes Windows available for PowerPC platforms. LOL...that's a funny scenario.)
Don't laugh, I still have an NT for PPC beta CD from back when Moto/IBM were promoting CHiRP and PReP standards for PPC desktops that would run AIX, MacOS or NT. NT used to support x86, MIPS, Alpha and PPC

See this link:

http://www.winnetmag.com/Windows/Art...2247/2247.html
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post #17 of 24
2/9/05 at 8:16pm

MS is ready for cell according to pingwales

http://www.pingwales.co.uk/interface...egy-shift.html

Story implies that MS actually has two OS's ready for PPC and the move to cell processors.
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post #18 of 24
2/9/05 at 9:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by katorga
The big question for the Cell will be how hard will it be to program. Based on the specs its going to be a bear to code to. If complexity creates too much lag in game releases, it will kill the PS3, no matter how fast it is.
Sony already stated that they learn their lesson and that the PS3 whould be easier to program.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katorga
Second, a modern GPU is very similar to a cell process...a central cpu with multiple vector processors (pipelines, shaders, etc). In the future I expect more and more general processing to shift to the GPU. OSX Tiger moves a lot GUI display processing to the shader engines of the GPU, and Longhorn will do so as well. Without a fast, top of the line Shader 2/3 compatible GPU both of those OSs will be hobbled. In the future the GPU may replace the CPU as the main component and system board of the computer with the CPUs residing on the expansion card.
That true, Cell is more like a GPU that was design to do CPU's work. Todays GPU are already more powerful than CPU because they are not made from the X.86 architecture, an architecture that has reach it's limit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katorga
Third, 4Ghz means heat. How much power does the Cell draw and how hot does it get? Can it realistically be used in laptops, especially one's that meet Apple's specs. Apple still can't get the G5 in a laptop due to heat and noise contraints. In the near future, laptops are going to replace desktops as the primary consumer computer platform.
Cell draw 1.3V (P4 Prescott 1.25V) and go up to 85C with only a heatsink. (119C for the p4) I don't really expect to see it in a laptop in a near futur, (maybe with less core... ) but I whould be happy to see it in servers or desktop.
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post #19 of 24
2/10/05 at 1:13am
I reserve judgement until MIPS numbers are published

Until then it's just hype.
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post #20 of 24
2/10/05 at 2:28pm

Hype

Quote:
I reserve judgement until MIPS numbers are published
True enough, but the potential is huge.

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Cell draw 1.3V (P4 Prescott 1.25V) and go up to 85C with only a heatsink.
That could be an issue given the proposed mass market use of the chip in appliances, game machines, and audio/video/dsp applications. The trend there is small and quiet.

The laptop issue is huge. I seriously think desktop sales are going to decline in the coming years to be replaced by laptops. Remember that the average ultralite laptop today has more than enough power for the majority of consumer users.
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