A bold statement

Well IBM sold their laptop division to another company, so their quality and reliability may change. As far as why doesn't everyone choose IBM... well they're quite expensive, and some people don't like their look. If I were buying a laptop for business I would go IBM for sure, but for my personal work/pleasure/gaming machine I'd want the best value for my money and would probably go Clevo/Twinhead/Acer.

Is there even such a thing as an Ibm gaming laptop?

Why don't people do their homework b4 getting their exceptionally large feet into their (seemingly)even bigger mouths.

A bold statement indeed. I'd say its analogous to W's statement of "Mission Accomplished."

Your poll was, first of all, unscientific, does not account for overall value, the Lenovo buy-out, or any other such variables.

Asus, who has only been making notebooks for US sale for a few years, garnered 25% of the vote. IBM's market share has got to be twenty times that of Asus and thus, compartively (as more people here will have used IBM than Asus), Asus is considered the more reliable of the brands.

Not saying it is true, but 40% of an unscientific poll that didn't even include some very major brands as options is hardly a "mandate" that IBM is the best of notebook manufacturers.

On top of that, their line of notebooks is very limited and almost every agrees, overpriced.

(Before you flame me - I do consider IBM to be one of the better notebook makers, but are they unquestionably the best? Absolutely not - there are just too many variables to consider as to what makes a company great, let alone, the best).

Who said anything about an IBM gaming laptop? In any case, IBMs are prohibitively expensive unless a business is purchasing it. They fit the model for the perfect "business" laptop (stable, reliable, great corporate support, 1/2 step behind cutting edge).

Regards,

zakaluka2.

Very true... as good as IBM is, they don't offer notebooks that suit EVERYBODY's needs.
If I were paying over 2000 for a laptop, yes I'd want good quality... but I'd also want speed and performance.
I can get probably twice as much performance and nearly the same quality form various other manufacturers for a fraction of the price of a Thinkpad.

Are Thinkpads good? yes... but not everybody needs to pay $$$ for a good laptop.

Well, there are people that differ on that opinion, especially with the new x700 and x800 laptops out these days. That's why IBM doesn't have a 100% market share. Different people want different things.

I agree with you 100% Hardball.

Wal-Mart is a good comparison. I don't buy anythinge at Wal-Mart. I used to go there all of the time. What turned me off from them is not so much all of their shaddy business practices (you have to wonder about a company that has all but ceased using TV ads to sell their products/advertise sales, but instead uses them basically for saying, "Hey, look, we're not Satan like most people think), but rather, what turned me off is the fact that seemingly every Wal-Mart I used to go to is disorganized, dirty, and poorly run.

I'll never forget my last time at Wal-Mart. Just that day I'd heard that Sam Walton (Wal-Mart founder) had a list of 10 things for a successful business. #1 on the list is for sales associates and says something like "If there is a customer anywhere in the vicinity of where you are standing, greet them and ask of they need assistance."

I remember the visit (my last) that day because of that. I went in to look for a hand chopper (you know, pound down on it to chop veggies, etc), a set of cheapo headphones and some yarn for my girlfriend. I was in there for longer than an hour. First I looked for the chopper - not in the aisle with the other kitchen choppers (electric ones, food processors, blenders, etc). Not in the knife aisle. Not in kitchen accessories. Where else would you put a hand food chopper?

I sought out an employee (of course if you've been to Wal-Mart you know you have to find them most of the time). I asked him "Where do keep the hand choppers?" Long pause, eyes sort of roll. "Umm uh, the wha?"

"The hand choppers, you know for chopping or mincing food - they have a spring and blades and you pound on it with food undernearth"

"Oh.. humm... try the Kitchen aisle" (nevermind that there are 4 or 5 "kitchen aisles")

"I just checked by the knives, the food processors, and the kitchen accessories"

"Oh... ummm... alright then. Stay here, let me go check."

I get the feeling he went and clocked out for his lunchbreak or something because he never came back. I went on looking after a few minutes and found another Wal-Mart employee. I tell him basically the same stuff I told the first guy to start. He says "Ummm.. we don't carry those" (Nonsense - I'd seen them advertised in the Sunday circular a few weeks earlier). I tell him this, he says "Alright, we're out then."

I gave up on the food chopper and went to look for the yarn. Know how in crafts stores or in the craft department of a store the yarn, etc is in a wall display that is sometimes cieling high? Well the color I needed was up at the top. I found an employee again and asked her to get it down for me. She went to get a ladder, but never came back. After a long time of waiting, I climbed the shelves and got it down myself. And I cut the pieces I needed myself using the scissors I took from the drawer in the crafts booth.

I next went to the electronics department for the headphones. Here is one of my biggest peeves with Wal-Mart - they are always out of stock of everything you want to buy. On the walll o' headphones there were probably 30 or so spots for them to hang with their little price thingies (and each spot would probably hold about 4-10 heaphones depending on size). Without exaggerating, I can say there were no more than ten pairs of headphones there. Gave up on the headphones.

So I had yarn and at least 45 minutes gone. I get to the register and stand in line for a year (that's another thing Wal-Mart is really bad about - keeping their lines short/moving). When it's finally my turn to buy... yarn.... I hand the balled up yarn to her (I knew this was going to be a small problem going in cause it was the cut fabric stuff that they have to measure and give you a price for - but I had noted the code for the product in my head - you know like fruit at the grocery store the yarn too has a code). She tells me she can't ring it up. Me: "Sure you can, the code is ****."

"It doesn't have the sticker with it."

"Well that's because there was no one back there to help me with it."

"Well, you need to get the code sticker if you want me to ring it up."

"I'm telling you the code. I'm not cheating you here - it's 12 yards just ring it up as 15 if you want - it's only yarn."

"I'm sorry, I can't do that. You're going to have to go get a sticker."

"There's no one back there."

She picks up the phone and does one of the page things to page someone Arts and Crafts booth.

"Thanks, but I'm not standing in line again - I'm coming right back."

"That's fine"

I come back, but she lets two people go in front of me (there were a half dozen in line). Of course these two people are those ones that do their shopping only on the neap tide and have 9 kids, 8 dogs, 7 cats to shop for and provide drinks for all of their kid's sports teams' halftimes.

In the end, the yarn was like 3.50.

Sorry for the OT rant. Wal-Mart sucks.

I beg to differ. IBM does not make a laptop that can be comparable (performance wise, specifically graphic performance wise) with many high end desktops.

Sager(among other laptop makers) beats IBM in that department hands down.

Ummmmm.....................your opinion isn't any more relevant than any other 'hardcore' gamers who believe the opposite is true.




I wonder how heavy it will be when lugging a 17 inch SXGA+ monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers, time to setup all of the above at a LAN party vs. a self contained 9860, open lid, turn power on, logon to WLAN, frag the crap out of everyone else.

The way I see it, a laptop that does whaqt it is designed to do which in this case is to provide a very good, (dare I say, excellent gaming experience) with the convenience of carrying around a 12 pound machine versus monitor/keyboard/mouse/computer plus setup is priceless.

See I can state my opinions too.

Dude, you can't even compare an offering from IBM for such an 'elite' niche market.

my 0.02

Ok, the poll you are referring to is here - http://notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=62423 - and besides being unscientific (not your fault, just the nature of the forums) it's also wrong in its assumption that IBM is a "manufacturer". There's a mix of both resellers (Dell, IBM) and actual OEM manufacturers (Uniwill, Clevo, Arima)...the matter gets further complicated with the addition of Asus, who is both a manufacturer (Asus is a large notebook OEM supplier to IBM, Sony and Apple - they also even make the iPod mini) and a reseller under their own brand.

If an accurate poll is desired, it needs to contain only one group, either resellers or manufacturers (i.e. Dell, IBM, Gateway, Sager, Voodoo, Apple, Sony, Toshiba, Asus, etc...all in one poll of resellers - Clevo, Compal, Arima, Asus, etc...all in another poll of manufacturers)

Very good point.

I disagree. IBM does offer something to suit any user, whether it be gamer, business user, graphic designer, you name it. The only difference between IBM and other companies is that you'll pay significantly more for the superb build quality. Other than ruggedized and specialized notebooks, I don't know of any notebook that can just about survive being run over by a truck.

And plageclochard comes in for the ownage.

To add more sides to this discussion, I can see why people would buy IBM for small/large buisness because of the quality of their support. But for anything else? I dont see why. When it comes to durability (which many IBM fanatics rave about) I'd rather drop the money down on a Panasonic Toughbook. When it comes to performance, I'd go with Clevo's offerings. Fashion statement? I'd go with Asus's choices.

I still HONESTLY, with no biased opinion, can not understand why people still think that the IBM's look good/professional. To me when I see an IBM at one of my companies meetings I think "Low tech, overpriced, and 1990's aesthetics". There are plenty of other notebooks out there that give that "aura" of professionalism when you take it out of your briefcase.

From the top of my head (and perhaps this is biased) the 3 new Asus Laptops coming out this month look 200 times more professional then any of IBM's offerings. http://event.asus.com/2005/notebooks/20050201/

I second that. I think IBMs are great machines, especially for businessmen. But think in configurations, price, and aesthetics they leave a lot to be desired. Also, anyone who claims those things don't matter is either in denial or nuts. A good comparison is cars. A company may make a car that is 10x more reliable than others in its class, but if it offers less features at a higher price and is butt ugly, the reliability really doesn't matter, because, at least in new cars, looks is a huge part of the purchase choice.

(Why do you think Oldsmobile shut down?)

I'm willing to put up good money that says one of the first things Lenovo does is revamp the IBM line in terms of aesthetics.