A bold statement - Page 3

What about the Acer 8100 series? It costs 2k, weighs 6-7 pounds, and has the x700 gpu. It's performance would equal that of a desktop Pentium 3ghz+ system with a 9700 pro, more than capable of handling any of todays games.

I would buy that over an IBM, as it provides better looks, value, and performance compared to a similar IBM offering. Your bold statement is an opinion and doesn't apply to everyone, please understand this.

Not everyone believes laptops are worthless for gaming, and thus people buy non-IBM laptops and are quite happy with the performance and value they receive.

So your saying that even though other laptop companies can put a better CPU & GPU in their system, it actually makes their products inferior?. To follow your train of thought your saying that IBM is better even with lower specs, and for some reason, it makes them superior? You also call the advancement of technology to be "stunts?"

Instead of blindly stating why IBM is superior and every other company is inferior, why dont you post some cold hard facts about how PHYSICALLY IBM laptops are better then the competition (other then CPU's and GPU's which you for some GOD FORSAKEN reason state is just a stunt so that other companies can sell their "inferior" products).

This first part of your epilogue is debatable, but I'll go along with it, as placing a marquee graphics card in an already powerful system makes you a gamer, so you better have the cash.

This part I'm a little less convinced of. ATI just rolled out their new dual-slot X850 for the desktop. Great! Just one problem: Not only is it taking up an extra slot on your Mobo, it qualifies as only marginally faster than the X800, hardly justifying the $500 for a less than 10% gain in performance. The X800 was a major retooling and refresh in the graphics performance department, then the next 18 to 24 months nVida and ATI will roll out minor GPU updates just to beat the other guys benchmarks.

Every few years, a few game companies roll out fetish graphics games to match the current crop of new graphic upgrades, but for months after, most of the game companies, even those rolling out the best of the best, make system requirements that more that meet the desktop configuration of those owners who choose not to make expensive upgrades.

If you start out with an X800 in your rig, I would hardly call that a second rate unit. Even if you can't upgrade it, let the desktop fanboys go ahead and spend $1,500 on upgrades for the next 1 1/2 years on percentage increases, and play games that are built on 18 month old system configurations. even in a deathmatch, I bet in 2006 they'll be a guy with an OC'ed MR9800 who'll be playing the new Unreal tournament 2005, smokin' X850 10 percenters.

IBM makes good laptops not the best and quality is agruable from some many ways it not even funny. EVERY company is make laptops as cheaply as possible THAT is the bottom line. What we buy and what we consider "quality" is up to each person on there own. Yes there are cheap laptops out there and yes there are quality laptops out there it just depends on what you want.

Hardball your "FACTS" about people who buy LT's are your own opinion and thats it.

Let it go people spend there money how they want yes people carry around there desktops i have done it for the past 2yrs i finaly bought a laptop and love that i dont have all of the extra crap with me and its a lot easier to setup and play.

Isn't this a good thing???...if you bought a notebook today then you have 3 weight choices...
1) under 4 lbs. = ultaportable, mostly for business/travelers
2) 4-6 lbs. = thin and light, varying from the traveling side to powerful
3) 6-10 lbs. = multimedia notebooks and DTR's

This is exactly what "most people" expect from their desktops as well...

Yeah, your point is?...

Mobile computing is finally branching out to meet the needs of everybody, instead of just a market for business users...some people want ultraportables, some a DTR, some a mix between the 2...do you expect a notebook with a 17 inch screen to be thin and light?

Some "gamers" are computer savvy, others are not (just look at the help section of the UT2004 forum)...notebooks manufacturers are beginning to make it easier for users/companies to work on them after the initial sale...Axiom and MXM should allow for GPU replacement, the memory is usually easy to reach, and many manufacturers are now making it fairly simple to replace the processors...and I guess the continued success of DTR notebooks and shuttle pc's is in spite of those who love to carry their entire desktop system around? As for the first part of that second sentence, that is just stupid...

Yes, notebooks cost more than desktops, this has always been true and is further amplified with the recent price drop of most desktop systems...notebook prices are gradually dropping as well...

WTF is this nonsense?...if people have a valid reason for it, then the purchase is completely justified...

So I guess you feel all notebook owners are either A: computer savvy and stupid suckers, or B: computer savvy and rich...

Yeah, my notebook is the second coming...

Sorry, I don't have time to answer this one, gotta go for a ride on my Segway...

Once again, you're speaking in general terms based on the silly perspective of notebooks vs. desktops...

Yes, they are...nothing we can do about that, with the current situation most technologies are developed for desktops first, then the harder process of shrinking it down is begun so it can fit in a mobile platform...but don't you think desktop buyers would want a smaller case as well? Now, companies are beginning to utilize 2 different technology paths, one for desktops and one for notebooks (see the different processors and GPUs between desktops and notebooks)...

Yes, they do...it's the nature of the beast...

So you want to argue for thin and light notebooks but want SLI in them as well?!?...thermal issues are ever improving with the newer technology...

There's evidence that hard drives don't have any significant performance gains even at 10000 rpms, let alone 15000...

This is a function of the chipset, which will change for both platforms (Intel and AMD) in the next 3-4 months...

LCD's are getting better and better every year, and becoming more and more popular in the desktop market as well, it's an ongoing situation...

So I guess that's why they just sold their notebook business off, to focus on more profitable areas of their business...

Stop generalizing the entire market already, some people want mobility, some performance, some rock solid reliability, etc...

Quality will only last so long as your only selling point...

Notebooks have shown to be the growing market among computers in the past few years, this includes each segment of the notebook market...

I hope they know their own R&D costs and their ramifications...

So I guess that commercial dropping a thinkpad on the floor is not a "stunt"...

I guess I just have to say we have two different opinions on where the market will go...

Most people do not have their ideal gaming system at all, it doesn't matter if it's a notebook or a desktop. Quickly browsing through newegg, if I wanted to build a new desktop system right now, it would cost me at least $2100...yes, notebooks cost more than desktops, we've been over that, but for many people it makes the most sense, maybe you don't have the room for a big desktop (dorm room), maybe your parents don't want you to have a 7.1 sound system in your room upstairs (kid), maybe you only want one computer but you spend time at multiple locations throughout the month...I could go on and on...

Hardball,
I have forgone the need to quote your long winded "unprotracted" rebuttal simply because you have yet to make any conherent argument AGAINST the fact that a 9860,

PLAYS EVERY SINGLE GAME ON THE MARKET AT ITS HIGHYEST SETTINGS............................. E A S I L Y

* Dr. Evil voiceover*
Now I am a gamer who likes to LAN w/ my homeys when I'm not drawing up plans to take over the world.

I do appreciate the eye candy and I don't want to sacrifice any of it in my gaming, but I also don't want to lug a pc, w/ monitor, speakers, keyboard and mouse and have to hook them up b4 I frag and have to tear it down when I'm done to take the rig back to my secret lair.

Ofcourse, I personally won't be doing any of that, after all thats what henchmen are for, but if u've seen the 3 austin powers movies that have come out so far, you'd know what an incorrigible bunch of incompetent henchmen I have for help.

They can't tie their own shoelaces much less setup and tear down a pc setup when instructed too.

No, no, I need a mobile solution. I've checked the IBM website and I admit yes, some very good lappys if I want to make a few presentations and such, but nothing really with the power I crave.

Sager does. It has a product that satiates my need to frag on the go, without compromising any visual effects and its around 3 grand. A bit extreme for some, sure, but hey, mobility has its costs.

Since I will be blackmailing the leaders of the free world for the sum of............ 100 B i l l i o n D o l l a r s, I am willing to fork over the 3 grand to feed my need for speed.
*End Dr. Evil Voicover*


When it comes right down to it, Sager (among others) cater (and quite admirably I might add) to an elite niche market that IBM (as well as most other computer manufacturers) have simply decided not to cater too.

I can play all the latest games and I do not have to sacrifice any eye candy. Sounds like a winner to me.

Sure I can use the 3 grand to put together an SLI rig that will wipe the floor clean with my (comparatively) puny 9860, but does it really matter if your game runs on 200fps or 60 fps? Could u honestly tell the difference? If your answer is yes, I will not argue with you, but I will definately have to take that claim with a HUGE grain of salt.

Cheers.

But But its not an IBM or a Desktop

Everybody has their own definition of what a high end gaming system is... most concentrate on graphics, some like sound and graphics... some what ideal keyboard and mouse configurations... etc.

Yes, laptops don't make the BEST gaming platforms... but they certainly suffice.

ibm-for last 14 years

i can defend ibm-but no need to. ibm caters to the business professionl and it person strictly. that is why they dont have many goodies that you gamers like. but what ibm does have- thinkloite (greatest), shockproof harddrive way before anyone else, most solid laptop i have worked with, the best trackpoint in the business, a great keyboard, lite weight, with excellent screen and battery life. as for price-they are only expensive if you have to have full top of line and cant wait 5 months for first price drop. they also have touchpad and trackpoint, 2 pcmcia slots-a requirement for us traveling business people. i am still looking for the ultimate laptop-apple comes close (the backlit keyboard puts this in my category. i have had toshiba-liked, compaque-disliked, dell-ok, sony-cool looking but expensive-greart screen, hp-liked. i like the asus m6 and i think i will get that or a samsung next. i really like at least 3 or 4 usb ports, under 6.5 pounds, 14 or 15 screen etc.. i am moving away from business laptop cause i dont work much anymore. but ibm is and will still be a great laptop even after lenova.

guys (and maybe gals -unlikely)...

ps2! and soonish... ps3! how much does a ps2 cost and how much does a DT or LT cost? ps2 is like 10x cheaper than and DT and it is so many times more powerful! you can have your own dedicted tv... as big as you want.. and a neat sound system too.

why bother paying all that money for a gaming LT or DT when you have ps2... or gamebox etc... ??? if it is about portability... you can take your ps2 comfortably to a friends place and link it up... but i dont know to many people who want gaming when they are out of the house... i know there are some though.

lol... every post ends up being about games!!! buy a console if you want games and value for money! lol.

now back to quality of LTs...

i take extremely good care of my equipment and it always lasts for a very long time... (for as long as i use it and then have to upgrade for performance features) ...other than manufactirung defects (which i get repaired immediately when they occur) i can make any LT perform just as good as the day i bought it. I mean... my cousin has a dell inspiron 600 and she has had it for 1 year and when she bought it to me for fixing i was amazed at what she had done to this machine... her screen was so dirty she had little droplets of coke (cola lol!) on it and some dirty scuff marks and finger prints... and her screen started to flicker. now i know she handles her unit roughly and she is unceremonial in the way she places it back in its case and in the way she handles the case she has the pc in. she could make the highest quality LT go bust in a short time because she is careless and has no understanding for the delicacy of a portable machine.

There is another aspect here... and that is the quality of the product that a manufacturer produces that is 'within spec' !!! LOL. apple computer.... i bought a LT: 15"powerbook last year ( i returned it after several unsuccessful attempts at a repair). the problem was 'uneven illumination'. this appeared after a month of using it. it was a dark patch occuring on the bottom right of the screen. and it was large! like a semicircle of radius say... 3 cm. the tech saw the problem but after consultation with apple tech and after replacing several parts the problem did not go away.. they they started changing their tone by saying the machine was within spec!!! a handy rebuttal by denying there is a fault because they cant fix it.... and in their opinion there is no fault they cant fix LOL. now that is an example of product quality that is bad! and it is precisely this sort of thing that a person needs to search around the message boards.

so just handle your equipment with a high level of care and you can make ANY pc a quality pc given that the 'within spec' build of the machine from the moment you unpack it at home is 'perfetc' & free of manufacturing defects. if you are a rough handler of pcs i believe there is a brand of pc that is designed especially for rough handling.. and these s.o.bs are tough and built into really thick solid cases and can take anything you put its way ... maybe not driving over it or throwing it out the window lol...


anyway.. my (AU)$0.02 worth.

Oh, didn'tcha know?

The GPU in the 9860 is PCI-E user upgradeable. Since you are obviously ignorant of the 9860's architecture let me elaborate.

User upgradeable means the user of the laptop is able to take out the current GPU unit and pop in the latest and greatest.

Unless a radically new chipset design comes out housing the successor to PCI-E (forcing nVidia and ATI to drop upgrading the mobile cards for the PCI-E in favor to its successor) its a safe bet that 9860 owners will be covered for awhile.

As promised I won't argue with you.......



* Now where did I put that salt shaker? *

I agree w/ u (not about the Apple part though, don't really know that much about that company or its products to render an opinion).