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Bad news for 7700 owners?

post #1 of 100
3/1/05 at 2:49pm
Thread Starter 
I just wanna share something that maybe of importance to you guys out there who own a 7700 and who are thinking of getting one.

Of course, the performance of the XPS comes at a price. Not only are prices starting at a lofty $2750, but also power consumption of the graphics chip is in stratospheric heights. While a Go 6200 has a maximum power consumption of 8.7 watts (including memory), the Go 6600 18 watts and the Go 6800 26.7 watts, the Ultra chip swallows a record 66.1 watts. According to Nvidia, its all about performance in desktop replacement devices and system builders were willing to accept up to 100 watts of power consumption for a maximum of performance in their notebook.

To compensate the power hungry graphics chip, notebooks may use less power hungry system processors in the future. Dell's XPS system for example uses a 2 GHz Pentium-M 760 or a 2.13 GHz Pentium-M 770 processor with the 90nm Dothan core. But its obvious that the typical buyer of a XPS system will be as concerned about power consumption as Ferrari drivers are about the fuel efficiency of their cars. At least system designers were able to get control of the weight gains of DTR notebooks. Compared to the 12-pound heavyweights presented after the launch of the Go 6800, the XPS weighs just 8.6 pounds.

i am by no means an aw non-supporter, in fact i just ordered my 7700 last week... and am still having serious aftermath remorse... i know that technology is forever changing, and there can never be an end to these technological changes, but if anyone who are only starting to think of buying a notebook to replace their old one right now, i'm very sure they'd be looking for the most powerful one in the market. and i thought the 7700 would be able to handle the ultra card and future cards for that matter, but from the looks of it, i think there's already not enough power to draw from the 7700, and there's a design deficiency... can anyone who is in the know-how shed a light on this matter, because i really want to be an aw owner not another dell... but i really want the ultra card because hopefully it'll set me back a couple of years without ever needing to upgrade.
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post #2 of 100
3/1/05 at 3:10pm
where is that quote from?
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post #3 of 100
3/1/05 at 3:15pm
Thread Starter 
yea sorry i forgot to include the url
http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews...24_141211.html
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post #4 of 100
3/1/05 at 4:04pm
really odd however that power consumption doesn't increase linearly with clock speed.

assuming go6800 ddr (not ddr3) vs go6800u

go6800 250/600 - 26.7W
go6800u 450/1100 - 66.1W

the avg clock speed increase is a factor of 1.8235294117647058823529411764706. that being the case, i would have expected the ultra to use ~48.7W instead of 66.1W. the numbers just don't seem right, but if it came directly from nvidia....
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post #5 of 100
3/1/05 at 4:22pm
Once again Alienware is a day late and a dollar short, same with the ati 9700 back in the days for the 5500, it took them forever for them to bring it out while competitors like Sager had it in their system 3-4 months ahead.
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post #6 of 100
3/1/05 at 4:26pm
I saw the xps2 and it's very ugly.
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post #7 of 100
3/1/05 at 5:09pm
Yeah but its a dell. You may get more battery but something is sacrificed. Perfomance maybe. That m chip can run with the standard p4. also you get a lot of bonus software with a dell like slow down my computer to a crawl. AW is a way better gaming computer in my opinion. I have a dell I love the AW 7700. This is the best most powerfull computer I have used for games. Plus oe more thing you wont see one of those laptops for a few months yet. Im sure everyone is ordering one.
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post #8 of 100
3/1/05 at 5:12pm
One more thing is it upgradeable?
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post #9 of 100
3/1/05 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanweku
I just wanna share something that maybe of importance to you guys out there who own a 7700 and who are thinking of getting one.

Of course, the performance of the XPS comes at a price. Not only are prices starting at a lofty $2750, but also power consumption of the graphics chip is in stratospheric heights. While a Go 6200 has a maximum power consumption of 8.7 watts (including memory), the Go 6600 18 watts and the Go 6800 26.7 watts, the Ultra chip swallows a record 66.1 watts. According to Nvidia, its all about performance in desktop replacement devices and system builders were willing to accept up to 100 watts of power consumption for a maximum of performance in their notebook.

To compensate the power hungry graphics chip, notebooks may use less power hungry system processors in the future. Dell's XPS system for example uses a 2 GHz Pentium-M 760 or a 2.13 GHz Pentium-M 770 processor with the 90nm Dothan core. But its obvious that the typical buyer of a XPS system will be as concerned about power consumption as Ferrari drivers are about the fuel efficiency of their cars. At least system designers were able to get control of the weight gains of DTR notebooks. Compared to the 12-pound heavyweights presented after the launch of the Go 6800, the XPS weighs just 8.6 pounds.

i am by no means an aw non-supporter, in fact i just ordered my 7700 last week... and am still having serious aftermath remorse... i know that technology is forever changing, and there can never be an end to these technological changes, but if anyone who are only starting to think of buying a notebook to replace their old one right now, i'm very sure they'd be looking for the most powerful one in the market. and i thought the 7700 would be able to handle the ultra card and future cards for that matter, but from the looks of it, i think there's already not enough power to draw from the 7700, and there's a design deficiency... can anyone who is in the know-how shed a light on this matter, because i really want to be an aw owner not another dell... but i really want the ultra card because hopefully it'll set me back a couple of years without ever needing to upgrade.
Actually the alienware 7700 is FULLY USER UPGRADEABLE,meanin u can always upgrade the video card, ram, cpu, etc on ur own w/o voiding ur warranty, on the other hand the XPS2, is upgradeable(not sure how much upgrades), but u can not upgrade it urself as it will void ur warranty, thats Dell's policy.... Even on the AW site they specifically say on the 7700 page that it will be fully upgradeable so that it will always keep up with tomorrow's technology... So thats y im not cancellin my 7700 order....Let me know wutchu think.....Hope this helps
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post #10 of 100
3/1/05 at 5:27pm
Remember, if you upgrade a part through AW that requires another part (like the power supply) to also be upgraded, they take care of it.
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post #11 of 100
3/1/05 at 5:54pm
Thread Starter 
thank you guys for the great inputs, i almost changed my order to the dell xps gen 2, because of the portability factor, decent battery life and of course the ultra card that is inside that machine. i do agree with aw being upgradeable and not voiding the warranty and all, but from the data that i got, i don't even think the 7700 can take the ultra card simply because of the high power consumption... i really love the looks of the 7700 and the fact that it can house 2 hdd and 2 cd drives but if it can't take even the 6800 ultra, then my question is just how upgradeable is it?
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post #12 of 100
3/1/05 at 6:00pm
Having read the power supply thread, I am confused about the Alienware upgrade policy. It seems like the owner couldn't upgrade to a video card that Alienware actually sells, unless they upgraded through Alienware. I own a Gateway desktop and I have upgraded to a PCI-E video card and added a Firewire card, and as far as I know, I have not voided my warranty.

Also, as inxsdragon mentions, you are at the mercy of Alienware here, and certainly given their track record on the 5500, being able to upgrade the graphics card wasn't a very big win. Having said that, the 7700 is a great machine as is, just depends if you are after battery life, weight, and the latest graphics (XPS2), or something that is more configurable (7700). I wouldn't hesitate buying either the XPS2 or the 7700 depending on my needs. I do like the idea of being able to do email or whatever for more than an hour on battery and not carrying around 12 pounds, so the XPS2 is very attractive. Not sure I would send a 7700 back if you like it, but it definitely would make a new purchase a little more difficult.

I use my 5500 for multi-track audio work, so thinking about dedicating it to that and buying an XPS2 for gaming and other lightweight tasks instead of buying a 7700 to do both audio and gaming. Not really a gamer, but I have been having loads of fun playing Doom3 and Need for Speed Underground on my 5500.

Tom
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post #13 of 100
3/1/05 at 6:14pm
Tom,

I would make sure with Gateway that you have not voided your warranty. I've owned Gateways, and the ones I had had a metallic sticker on the case door that would discolor if you opened the case. The warranty documentation said that such action could cause the warranty to be voided.

Also ,the idea that you are "at the mercy" of Alienware is not correct. It is totally logical for them to want involvement in the user playing around inside the PC if they are responsible by warranty for faults in that PC. For example, let's say I am a total noob, and go buy a ATI X800 mobile graphics card for my Sentia. I come home, crack that baby open and, to my consternation, discover there is no place to install it. Serves me right for not following my warranty.

Had I followed the warranty, and called AW, they would have informed me that the Sentia uses integrated graphics, and as such is non-upgradeable. The moral is: it does make sense to consult with the people who built and sold the PC on upgrading it.
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post #14 of 100
3/1/05 at 6:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelist
Tom,

I would make sure with Gateway that you have not voided your warranty. I've owned Gateways, and the ones I had had a metallic sticker on the case door that would discolor if you opened the case. The warranty documentation said that such action could cause the warranty to be voided.

Also ,the idea that you are "at the mercy" of Alienware is not correct. It is totally logical for them to want involvement in the user playing around inside the PC if they are responsible by warranty for faults in that PC. For example, let's say I am a total noob, and go buy a ATI X800 mobile graphics card for my Sentia. I come home, crack that baby open and, to my consternation, discover there is no place to install it. Serves me right for not following my warranty.

Had I followed the warranty, and called AW, they would have informed me that the Sentia uses integrated graphics, and as such is non-upgradeable. The moral is: it does make sense to consult with the people who built and sold the PC on upgrading it.
As far as upgrading notebooks, my point is that things like the graphics cards (at least in the past) have been proprietary in the notebook space, so I agree, having the vendor involved is the only way, but that also means that you are at their mercy as far as what you can upgrade to. In the case of the 5500, you can only get the Nvidia 5700 or ATI 9700, neither of which is real exciting these days. I know Dell is also proprietary as far as notebook graphics cards, so it's great that both companies have a possible upgrade path, as long as they make interesting upgrades (like the 9800 card for XPS to upgrade from the 9700). In the XPS case, a friend upgraded from a 9700 to a 9800, but they sent a technician to his home to do it, so it was no problem.

As far as desktops, I have been putting cards in for years without problems, so I will probably continue that since I don't spend a lot on desktops and don't use power hungry cards.

Tom
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post #15 of 100
3/1/05 at 6:47pm
yeah... dell does load a bunch of crap on the machine. no doubt. but that's why most people with will perform a clean format and reinstall upon receiving their dell.

as for upgrading, dell was the only company to offer a graphics upgrade to their previous generation of high end laptops. you didn't find the mobility 9800 anywhere. also i remember reading threads in this forum about people wanting to upgrade their 5x00go (i forget which one) to a m9700 with no luck even though the card was readily available and offered with new laptop purchases. i found this odd b/c aw supposedly offered modular graphics cards back then. and this whole thing repeated again when the m9800 came out.

and with this blurb about heat and power consumption w/ the go6800U, it may not be possible to use in the clevo clones b/c it would exceed the TDP.

but that's not to say working w/ dell is a walk in the park either. i had to take my entire 9100 apart to install the m9800. and in looking at the xps2 user's manual, there are no instructions on fully disassembling it... only what dell deems "upgradable"... ram, hd, optical drive, wifi, bluetooth, modem. so getting a replacement video card and/or cpu maybe more difficult than before. however w/ a gpu that can hold it's own w/ desktop 6800GTs and Ultras, an upgrade probably isn't very necessary until the 6800 series becomes obsolete.
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post #16 of 100
3/1/05 at 7:07pm
Thread Starter 
yea i know how bad it can get with dell machines: it has a very limited upgradeability and honestly it's charging too much for their xps gen 2... but it'll be really disappointing if the 7700 cannot handle the 6800 ultra, because that goes to show that the 6800 is the end of the road for it. and as with technology, i'm sure within a couple of months, a new card will be out in the market to beat the next 3dmark06 or something. it's just advertising strategy, and i don't want to be stuck with an obsolete 14 pound behemoth that can do everything today but not in like a year's time, that's too short a lifespan for the weight it carries... i really like the 7700, but if it can't handle the ultra card, i don't know, it just makes me doubt its prowess...
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post #17 of 100
3/1/05 at 7:13pm
all i know is that the go6800U can hang with the desktop 6800 gts/ultras and depending on which benchmark done by whom, it can outperform them. that pretty much guarantees that the xps2 will be viable as long as the desktop 6800 series is viable.

personally i'd much rather have a mobility x800 xt or something like that. i've been using ati in my i9100 and my work desktop and i'm just more familiar with their products, drivers, and 3rd party utilities.
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post #18 of 100
3/1/05 at 7:17pm

You can't polish a turd!

Hey All,

Ok, saw the thread, dashed over to the Dell dump site to check it out. Did some configuration practice. Are ya kidding?
Please go get a Dell!

An Intel M chip, on an "Ultimate Gaming" system ?
533 Mhz FSB
1 x100 Gig HD 4200 (Rpm) 4200 (do they still mak'em?)
And of course that top of the line Dell brand RAM

Honestly, the only thing decent is the video card and display, but that is like putting perfume on pig. Please, go buy the DELL. Bring it over, after you get it sometime after April 11th and well compare

Where's the RAID 0
Where's the 800 Mhz FSB
Where's the 7200 RPM Drives
Where's the Corsair RAM

Where's my old copy of Diablo so the Dell XPS Gen 2 buyers can have one game they can turn the video settings all the way UP on?

Now I know I sound pretty blunt, but it reminds of Volksvagon using porsche engines. "Yup, eh... nice......... Volkswagon!" (Please I meant no harm to Volkswagon they are fine autos)

Oh Yah, and please start posting on the Dell threads with all the other "ULTIMATE GAMERS"!
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post #19 of 100
3/1/05 at 7:28pm
Thread Starter 
i don't think that's a very fair comment to make on the xps gen 2, yes they don't have raid 0 or 1 for that matter but they do support sata drives. and plus they do have the option of choosing the 7200rpm hitachi drives. the rams they use are also decent not corsair nor crucial but decent samsung ones i think. and the whole system is based on the new intel alviso config, it's portable, has decent battery life and in all respect to the 7700, beats the 7700 currently in the config.
i don't wish to promote dell because i am not a very satisfied customer of dell myself, but you got to admit it, this machine's pretty decent. can you tell me of another machine that has an 8 lbs weight with such technology?
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post #20 of 100
3/1/05 at 7:35pm
- actually it does have a 60GB 7200 rpm drive option
- how could you have raid 0 with one drive?
- did you see on the Tom's Hardware where it smoked the equivalent of the AW7700 and Sager9860?

basically it's got the AW7700 and Sager 9860 beat on size, weight, performance and battery life/heat. Why would you bash it just because it's a Dell, the numbers don't lie. I think Clevo should just follow the lead and start putting mobile processors on machines with high end cards so you can get less weight/bulk with better performance and battery life. Isn't this what people want? gaming notebooks with actual battery life and kick ass graphics cards? I'm just surprised Dell is leading the pack on this issue, just wait til Clevo jumps on the wagon then AW and Sager can make similar kickass "mobile" notebooks!

mobile processors + high end graphics = kickass "laptop" gaming!
the XPS2 is a good start and long overdue from any computer company
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