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The NEW 5680 shipping thread (they're now shipping) - Page 13

post #241 of 901
Its not a technical issue.. there is no way to make them work together. they share the same band (2.4ghz) unregulated. The cross talk must be massive betweent he devices (not nearly as strict control, unlike cell phones, etc), and create too much intereferance.

Regardless, BT never launched well, and hopefully it will die soon..
post #242 of 901
It's not dead, it's hibernating in offices and colleges. The 2.4 GHz spectrum is jam-packed full of cordless phone signals at colleges. I'm prolly going to upgrade my wireless card to a combo when I get some extra cash. I took a poll a night or two ago, and there was only 2-3 who weren't using 2.4 GHz phones, not to mention cell phones (they are 2.4 GHz, no?). I don't remember what standard Case Western Reserve University was using, but I bet people with 2.4 GHz phones are having interference.

Personally, I use a 900 MHz phone.
post #243 of 901
Check this out:

http://www.bluetooth.com/tech/produc...PID=866&CAT=19

That is probably the coolest and stupidest bluetooth device at the same time.

I'm browsing their bluetooth product page to see if I can find anything worth while to run over bluetooth (I'm going to have it, might as well use it for SOMETHING)...

http://www.bluetooth.com/tech/products.asp

Not finding much
post #244 of 901
Quote:
Originally posted by Divine_Madcat
Its not a technical issue.. there is no way to make them work together. they share the same band (2.4ghz) unregulated. The cross talk must be massive betweent he devices (not nearly as strict control, unlike cell phones, etc), and create too much intereferance.



Regardless, BT never launched well, and hopefully it will die soon..

There's no cross-talk; the bands used by 802.11b/g and those used by Bluetooth are different, though both withn the 2.4GHz spectrum. They also use the bandwidth differently: 802.11b/g is DSSS, and Bluetooth is FHSS -- two entirely different allocation and use schemes.
post #245 of 901
Why let BT die? It is wonderful for people who want a headset for their mobile phone and don't want a cord (like me, I hate cords).

Can wireless headsets be used with PC BT mods?
post #246 of 901
Oooo... Wireless bluetooth headphones would be pretty cool.
post #247 of 901
Quote:
Originally posted by Colin Dean
Why let BT die? It is wonderful for people who want a headset for their mobile phone and don't want a cord (like me, I hate cords).

Can wireless headsets be used with PC BT mods?
because it is a failed standard. Look at how much is incompatible (phones cant connect, the mice suck, etc..). It was a great idea, and had it been done better, it might be worth something. But overall, side from a few nick-knacs (headsets), its worthless (and pricey... PDAs for example)...
post #248 of 901
like this?

http://www.openbrain.co.kr/e_site/e_...products03.htm


Quote:
Originally posted by io_burn
Oooo... Wireless bluetooth headphones would be pretty cool.
post #249 of 901
Quote:
Originally posted by Colin Dean
It's not dead, it's hibernating in offices and colleges. The 2.4 GHz spectrum is jam-packed full of cordless phone signals at colleges. I'm prolly going to upgrade my wireless card to a combo when I get some extra cash. I took a poll a night or two ago, and there was only 2-3 who weren't using 2.4 GHz phones, not to mention cell phones (they are 2.4 GHz, no?). I don't remember what standard Case Western Reserve University was using, but I bet people with 2.4 GHz phones are having interference.

Personally, I use a 900 MHz phone.
I believe that CDMA (PCS) phones are 2.4 GHz.
post #250 of 901
I'm just taking physics II this semester, so forgive me if i'm wrong.

It appears as though the devices using the 2.4Ghz range probably aren't using the exact same frequency. 2.4 Ghz is equivalent to, what..... 2,400,000,000 Hz? A 900 Mhz phone is
equivalent to about 900,000,000 Hz? Does that look right? There are literally hundreds of thousands of frequencies inside of
the 2.4 GHz spectrum of waves. The problem may be that
since it is unregulated, it is possible for two devices doing different things to be using a similar frequency.

But then, I haven't finished Physics II yet.
post #251 of 901
Hz measures frequency . . .

And since light (for the most part) all travels at roughly c, all photons at 2.4Ghz have roughly the same wavelength.
post #252 of 901
I think you're all missing the point. In the US, 802.11b and g operate in 11 exceedingly small bands somewhere NEAR 2.4000GHz. Not AT 2.4000GHz.

Similarly, Bluetooth operates at various points within a wider band above 2.4000GHz. Not AT 2.4000GHz.

I'd look up the exact frequencies, but I'm in the middle of trying to solve a build problem on the world's most sensitive radio receiver right now. (this is an oh-so-subtle hint that I may in fact know what I'm talking about. )
post #253 of 901
heh.. seeing as you work for Seti (great org btw.. love crunching for u guys.. ), i dont think we have doubts.

Anyway, i get the point of the freq.. heh..
post #254 of 901
Quote:
Originally posted by Divine_Madcat

heh.. seeing as you work for Seti (great org btw.. love crunching for u guys.. ), i dont think we have doubts.





Anyway, i get the point of the freq.. heh..




SETI@Home isn't SETI. SETI@Home receives passively a copy of whatever Arecibo happens to be looking at, via the SERENDIP system. It's a project run out of UC Berkeley.



The SETI Institute is the program that used to be part of NASA, used to receive federal funding, and is the group on which the movie Contact is based. It's not passive or opportunistic; when we go to one or more telescopes (as we're getting ready to do in Arecibo again, in a few months), we stay there for about a month, and have total control over the telescope, to look wherever we want.



We do all our number-crunching in-house, in real-time, as the data comes in. I'm responsible for those systems. This is in contrast to SETI@Home, which relies on their screensaver app to do their signal detection very much in non-realtime.



We get live pictures of the universe. They get snapshots months or years after the fact.
post #255 of 901
sooooo, anyone else get their tracking # yet?
post #256 of 901
mcl,
I don't doubt you at all. In fact, what I was stating was that it was possible that they were interferring because 2.4 GHz is unregulated. I didn't know what the actual frequencies were. Since you know that 802.11b/g are using several frequencies that are lower than 2.4 GHz and that BT is using frequencies slightly higher than 2.4 GHZ, my question has been answered. Thank you.

Nathan,
Yes, Hz does measure frequency. And light does travel at the speed of c. But light also has many different frequencies that it travels at while going the speed of c. Frequency basically tells us how many full waves will be sent during one second. In the case of 2.4 GHz, its about 2.4 billion waves per second. As you said, all photons travelling at 2.4 GHz do have the same wavelength, everthing else being consistent. But a wave at 2,400,000,100 and a wave at 2,399,999,900 do not have the same wavelength, or the same frequency. They would both though most likely be listed as 2.4 GHz.

I'm mostly just saying this for my own sake. So feel free to ignore me.

post #257 of 901
Quote:
Originally posted by FishmanLT

mcl,


I don't doubt you at all. In fact, what I was stating was that it was possible that they were interferring because 2.4 GHz is unregulated. I didn't know what the actual frequencies were. Since you know that 802.11b/g are using several frequencies that are lower than 2.4 GHz and that BT is using frequencies slightly higher than 2.4 GHZ, my question has been answered. Thank you.





Actually, they both operate above 2.4GHz.

Bluetooth operates from 2.402-2.835GHz, but uses any given frequency in that band on a pseudorandom basis for 1/1600 of a second.

802.11b/g, on the other hand, uses the following:
1 2.412GHz
2 2.417GHz
3 2.422GHz
4 2.427GHz
5 2.432GHz
6 2.437GHz
7 2.442GHz
8 2.447GHz
9 2.452GHz
10 2.457GHz
11 2.462GHz
12 2.467GHz
13 2.472GHz
14 2.484GHz


Note that the US only uses channels 1-11. Now, when you're using 802.11b, you're using a single channel, and thus that given frequency. Should you also be using Bluetooth simultaneously, there's a very small chance that, occasionally, for 1/1600th of a second, a Bluetooth radio signal will overlap with the 802.11b channel you're using.

This is not enough to cause a dissociation event in 802.11b/g, and it's certainly not enough to cause a TCP session to RST. At worst, in an RF-hostile environment, with a low signal-to-noise ratio, the access point may ask for a duplicate frame to be sent. But in that situation, you're probably already throttled and sending dup frames.
post #258 of 901
Just as an FYI-- I was #32 or so in line at PCTorque, did NOT get Bluetooth or DVD-RW, and I have NOT gotten my tracking number yet. I did however get dual batteries, and even though that wasn't supposed to delay shipping, maybe it did cause they got them in yesterday, and they waited to ship it all at the same time. This is not a complaint, just a FYI. Hope I get tracking numbers tomorrow!!!!!!!
post #259 of 901
BTW y'all need to move this Bluetooth 2.4GHz topic to another thread.... it doesn't belong here! Thanks
post #260 of 901
The line means nothing Atbear, I got an email today stating that it will go out "this week", whether that is today, tomorrow or friday, dunno. And I didn't even get bt or dvdr

PS:love tom
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