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Alienware Area-51m 7700 / Dell XPS2, Comparison  

post #1 of 55
Thread Starter 
Let me first just say this, if there is a thread already open regarding this topic, please move my post and my apologies in advance.

I just wanted to offer my commentary/two cents, for whatever that's worth, in hopes of helping people make a sound choice between these two GREAT laptops... I am an IT manager by trade and am always researching faster, more efficient micro-processors for my servers or desktops. While given I am in the IT field, I am by no means claiming to be an expert or know-it-all on these two machines, just offering general observations and which laptop I feel is better, which is the Alienware in MY opinion.

3DMARK Scores: Some people on these forums erroniously correlate 3DMARK scores with actual card performance. This is a mistake because GPU makers tweak their respective cards to perform well on these tests as the benchmark results directly affect the overall sales of a card. This is not to say that a given card with a great score is not greater then a card with a lower score, it very well may be. However, keep in mind that "Real-World" GPU performance for a specific game is a better scale as to which GPU might be better for you or in general. ATI uses its own technology to give the user features that nVIDIA can't and vice versa. Also remember that we don't always here the absolutes in regard to exact configuration of a tested system. Furthermore, being that GPU memory, chip architecture, a given example of a card, how long a system was tested before a specific score, cooling, etc... must all become a variable in reading a performance score. While its safe to say that any person with a reasonable foundation of logic could architect their own "Fair" test between these two laptops, we simply don't know what the variables are unless we do the tests ourselves. That said, some people will always exaggerate and not report truthful test data do to various psychological factors. So remember this when looking at scores. A higher score does not always mean a "Better" or "Faster" card. It simply means that the given card performs well on 3DMARK for various reasons. Getting a fast card when buying a fast card is always possible, so is getting a little slower card then expected. Nothing is perfect, as always, there will always be something faster. Get a card that will please you visually and be happy, play some games, and enjoy.

AW - Pentium 4 HT Vs. XPS Pentium M: Many folks on the board have been asking which processor is "faster"? One of the reasons many people think the Pentium M is faster is because of it's HUGE 2mb L2 cache. Having a 2mb L2 cache lets the M have 2 mb's of 1's and 0's (Instructions) on the chip at any given time to process directly instead of having to corral instructions more frequently from memory on processors with smaller L2 caches. The Alienware Area-51m 7700 processors have only 1mb of L2 cache. Now being that the Alienware board will take several versions of the P4 w/HT, and being that the Sager 9860 is the same thing and offers a 3.8Ghz version with a 2mb L2 cache, you can always upgrade. Why buy the Dell when you can always jump to a bigger cache later on? The reason the M seems quicker is because even though instructions only process at 2.1Ghz, the HUGE L2 cache makes it incredibly efficient at getting data to the PCI-e bus which can therefore get instructions to the GPU that much quicker. The architecture of the Pentium M, board chipset efficiency, PCI-e, Fast DDR2 Ram, all pointing to that awesome GPU make for extreme efficiency. So all in all its like looking at which is faster, the turbocharged 4cyl making 400hp? Or the V8 monster making 400hp? We know that weight, drivetrain, driver, etc would be the deciding factor. So its 2 different ways of doing the same thing. The main reason the Pentium M is used in the XPS2 is that its cache being HUGE, along with a lower voltage and lower frequency lets the chip and system make less heat and a better, hotter running VID card can be used and still not bake your legs. Now the AW uses the DESKTOP P4 w/HT for a different purpose, to simulate the same enviroment as a desktop in a mobile unit. The P4 w/HT is faster while in the native OS as your "tricking" the OS into thinking you have "2" processors. So in effect, the 2mb L2 cache on the M is better for games then a 1mb L2 cache P4 w/HT and relys on the state of the art nVIDIA chip architecture to do the brunt of the work driving benchmarks very high. So P4 w/HT is more powerful (Due to clock cycle alone), the Pentium M is more effiecient , which equals a near identical processor performance (So in english it takes about a 3.6Ghz P4/HT with 1Mb of L2 cache to equate to a 2.1Ghz Pentium M with 2Mb of L2 cache while playing a game at the same given system bus speed which there not, 800mhz Vs. 533Mhz. Because of having a smaller L2 cache, the P4 makes up for it with clock speed and a faster system bus to equal about the same performance processor to processor while playing games). In all reality, the P4 IS A LITTLE FASTER PERIOD, THE VIDEO CARD IS WHY THE SCORES ARE SO HIGH ALL TO ITSELF. Please remember, we are talking games and games alone. So it was pure genius for Dell to use that chip and mate the 6800 ULTRA. That card combined with the insane cache on the M is why the benchmarks are so high. Now, the Alienware WILL except a 2mb L2 cache version of the P4 w/HT. You get this chip in your rig, get the 6800 ULTRA in there too, That Pentium M XPS2 is going to be crying UNCLE real quick. So we will never know if AW is going to offer a P4/HT with 2Mb L2 cache like you can get on the Sager9860. We also dont know if the 6800 ULTRA will be an upgrade, I believe it will personally. If so, your going to be wishing you bought an Alienware.

Bottom Line: While the XPS2 is very nice, its 4 pounds lighter, doesn't run as hot and is ONLY really nice for games. The Alienware Area-51m 7700 does it all and is very UPGRADABLE, this means the the XPS2 may be a $3000 mistake far quicker the Alienware. Alienware has traditionally always offered upgrades and the 7700 being the system it is, you can bet that the ULTRA will be coming for it before the end of the year. I would buy the ULTRA if you want the best now and don't care about upgrades. If you want the best for the next couple of years in LAPTOP performance, get the AW as the performance between the two will shift to Alienware being the victor very shorlty. Ever wonder what happened to the XPS? those aren't that old and Dell already replaced it with the XPS2. Get the Alienware, you'll thank me later.

Just ordered:
Alienware Area-51m 7700
17" Vidcam 1680x1050 Clearview
P4 w/HT @3.6Ghz 1Mb L2 cache @800Mhz
1GIG of PC4200 @533Mhz
nVIDIA 6800 GO GPU w/DDR3 & 256Mb
60GIG SATA 7200RPM drive.
Dual Layer DVD burner

Hope this helps someone! Good luck and
post #2 of 55
Very informative post, Thank you.

I am looking forward to all of the colorful replies....

:Grabs Helmet, Ducks for cover:
post #3 of 55
Well put!

Grabs helmet and joins RUXOR!
post #4 of 55
Agrees! XPS2 for short term and 7700 for longterm, otherwise both great books!



Digs Himself a trench and prepares for the assault...............
post #5 of 55
Posting this in both threads:

Please play by the rules of the forum. We're all enthusiasts...let's try to celebrate that fact instead of taking shot after personal shot.

-Craig
Moderator
post #6 of 55
What really matters (to me) is the continuing availability of new video subsystems. Game playing is the only place where I need high end performance on my personal machine.

I have a Dell 9100, and if I too had a 6800 Ultra, I'd be in striking distance of the XPS2, even with 'ancient' ol' socket 478. Hell... if I had the option of putting an ATI9600 in my Dell 8200, I'd still be using it! But alas, the Dell gods decreed no more upgrades beyond ATI9000.

So... who is more likely to have future graphics options? I think that is really what it comes down to for many of us. If the 9860/7700 gets the 6800U, that's already one upgrade. Will it get 2? We know the XPS2 will likely get at least one more after the 6800U. Does it make sense to buy a machine that has already had one upgrade?

Hopefully, both lines will keep the current FF for a while, in future models. Enthusiasts unfortunatley, are known for throwing around tons of cash, and this is who both models are aimed towards. I'm guessing that each model will get one GPU upgrade before the both companies change the FF to try and make all us suckers haul out more cash for a new system.
post #7 of 55
Actually, the real problem is trolling in other companies forums.
post #8 of 55
Yes. The users of the NBF Dell forum have been trolling to much in this Alienware forum. They are also cross contaminating this Alienware forum with links to their own Flame thread that they have started at the Dell forum. fun and games are over.
post #9 of 55
Perhaps you should take a look at this--the PM (at least for gaming purposes) is certainly right there with the P4. This w/o the faster FSB (in this test it is 400 Mhz), w/o the faster 533 Mhz ram (in this test it is 333 MHz), and w/o dual channel capabilites (in this test it is only single channel)--not to mention the clock disparity (2.13 for the XPS2 top).

I don't think that you'll be hearing "uncle" from the PM when compared to the P4 in gaming--ever. Video content creation, I'll agree that the P4 is faster. But for everyday tasks (office type stuff) and for gaming (the XPS2 is a GAMING laptop) the PM is faster than most P4's, period. Look at the benchmarks.

http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_cont...ngaming&page=1

Here is another: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...px?i=2342&p=15

The P4 is crying "uncle" here, again with the antiquated chipset with the lower FSB, memory speed, lack of dual channel capabilities, and with a lower clockspeed.

I'm actually contemplating between a Sager 9860 (better Alienware 7700) and the Dell XPS 2--I have no bias here but the oringinal post seemingly does. As a pure gaming laptop the XPS is simply better, BOTH because of its GPU and its CPU.
post #10 of 55
I Implore any Dell Users to keep this clean if your going to post here make it tasteful/helpful nothing negative.
post #11 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by BNB
Perhaps you should take a look at this--the PM (at least for gaming purposes) is certainly right there with the P4. This w/o the faster FSB (in this test it is 400 Mhz), w/o the faster 533 Mhz ram (in this test it is 333 MHz), and w/o dual channel capabilites (in this test it is only single channel)--not to mention the clock disparity (2.13 for the XPS2 top).

I don't think that you'll be hearing "uncle" from the PM when compared to the P4 in gaming--ever. Video content creation, I'll agree that the P4 is faster. But for everyday tasks (office type stuff) and for gaming (the XPS2 is a GAMING laptop) the PM is faster than most P4's, period. Look at the benchmarks.

http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_cont...ngaming&page=1
You don't have to convince me of the merits of the Pentium M. I think it is a gonzo CPU. It singlehandedly revolutionized the entire world of mobile computing. When it goes dual core early next year, watch out, as it will own every other CPU in existence (due to combining dual cores with its brutal efficiency).
post #12 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntgrSpin
So... who is more likely to have future graphics options? I think that is really what it comes down to for many of us. If the 9860/7700 gets the 6800U, that's already one upgrade. Will it get 2? We know the XPS2 will likely get at least one more after the 6800U. Does it make sense to buy a machine that has already had one upgrade?

Don't know about AW, but when the 9860 gets the 6800 Ultra, it will be its second upgrade (from 6800 gddr2 to 6800 gddr3/x800 to 6800 Go Ultra).

Back to topic, I really do not understand why people compare these two systems, it's like comparing apples and oranges. You're comparing a true DTR (Sager 9860/AW 7700) to a mobile gaming PC (XPS2). Both have different motherboards/chipsets/CPU/RAM capabilities/HDD capabilities designed for totally different purposes. The only commonality being the PCI-E GPU design.

So, in reality, if you are only looking at gaming comparisons, then yes, the XPS2 is the best choice at the moment until Sager unleashes the 6800 Ultra themselves. But, if that's the case, then you should brag about your 6800 Ultra card and not your XPS2, because we all know that gaming is almost solely dependent on the GPU and nothing else.

If you want to make a more true accurate comparison, then compare the Dell 9300 to the AW 7700/Sager 9860, since both of these are true DTR's.

As for comparison to the XPS2, well, we'll have to wait for Sager's/AW's answer to the true mobile gaming market, which is most likely going to be an AMD Turion system with the 6800 Go Ultra (speculation).

So give Dell credit for creating the first pure and true mobile gaming laptop.
post #13 of 55
I disagree with your results. Comparing the two systems is like comparing apples and oranges. Sure I could come out and say Apples are WAY better than oranges, but it's all just your opinion about the subject.

These two systems have very different purposes. The XPS2 is a ubber powerful gaming machine that is fairly lightweight, somewhat portable, and has good battery life. The 9860 is a DTR, not meant to be very portable, not meant to use a battery. It was meant to be the best number crunching, upgradable system to replace your desktop gaming system. I'm sure that the 9860 will come out with a 6800 Ultra, but that will lower battery consumption to unbelievable levels, and somepeople want more portability than that. I expect a Pentium-M/Turion 9860 to come out to deal with this.

So neither one is better than the other. You will probably like one better than the other, and if so than great! Everybody wins, because everybody gets what they want. So which ever one is better for you, go for it! I'm glad you bought a system that meets your needs and makes you happy.
post #14 of 55
Here's the deal. Laptop design is all about balancing space and weight constraints with power and thermal requirements. The P4 is a heat and power monster. The go6800 ultra is also a heat and power monster. It is *very* unlikely that you'll ever see the two combined in one laptop, because that would simply require way too much battery power and cooling for a container the size of a laptop.

Both AW and Dell outsource their laptop design to Taiwan shops. AW sources from Clevo, and Dell sources from Compal. These guys are probably next-door neighbors. Their engineers probably eat at the same KFC. Neither one lags the other in design by a significant margin. Both companies will produce good mobile gaming rigs.

But for now, DELL ROCKS!
post #15 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattboy
I disagree with your results. Comparing the two systems is like comparing apples and oranges. Sure I could come out and say Apples are WAY better than oranges, but it's all just your opinion about the subject.

These two systems have very different purposes. The XPS2 is a ubber powerful gaming machine that is fairly lightweight, somewhat portable, and has good battery life. The 9860 is a DTR, not meant to be very portable, not meant to use a battery. It was meant to be the best number crunching, upgradable system to replace your desktop gaming system. I'm sure that the 9860 will come out with a 6800 Ultra, but that will lower battery consumption to unbelievable levels, and somepeople want more portability than that. I expect a Pentium-M/Turion 9860 to come out to deal with this.

So neither one is better than the other. You will probably like one better than the other, and if so than great! Everybody wins, because everybody gets what they want. So which ever one is better for you, go for it! I'm glad you bought a system that meets your needs and makes you happy.
Apples to Oranges? Not really, the two systems are much closer in relation then you may think. While the XPS2 is no DTR/MD, its still a fair sized truck. Now the 7700 is a tank, but it claims no less. I completely disagree with you about the 7700 being the best number cruncher to replace a desktop. If you want that then buy a Mac which will open up a can of "Whoop-a$$" over ANY Pentium based chip when it comes to FP operations. The 7700 was designed more as a LAN party machine/DTR/notebook. As far as the 7700 never being meant to wield a battery, who cares. People who buy the 7700 want a kick ass lappy and dont care about battery life or we would have all grabbed Centrino's. So your point about the 6800 ULTRA killing battery life is moot. While I like the XPS tremendously and love the 2Mb L2 cache, you put a P4/HT 3.8Ghz with 2Mb L2 cache and IT WILL make the M moan... Cheers!
post #16 of 55
I think the xps2 can hold its ground. Offering upgrades in both cpu and gpu... So dell claims... and ideas of pentium m dual core sit to fit the xps2 when dual core released... I think xps2 will launch itself forward in performance as time progresses....
post #17 of 55
The PM is overall a much better chip for a laptop. It does well in many catagories. See which chip is right for what you need to do.

http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_cont...desktop&page=1
post #18 of 55
Here is the bottom line:

1) The XPS weighs less
2) The 7700 produces more heat
3) The XPS has more battery life
4) The XPS is smaller
5) The XPS currently out-performs the 7700
6) The XPS is cheaper

Speculation about upgradability is just that: speculation. Who knows what upgrades Intel has planned that will be compatable with the current P-M or P4 chipsets? Who knows what future GPUs will be released for either the 7700 or the XPS?

What it really comes down to is whether you want the performance characteristics of the P4 or the P-M, whether you want the cool paintjob and blinking eyes of the Alienware, and whether or not you want to spend extra money for the better service and tech support that Alienware offers.

As it stands, the XPS2 is the more competent gaming machine.
post #19 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename_47
As far as the 7700 never being meant to wield a battery, who cares. People who buy the 7700 want a kick ass lappy and dont care about battery life or we would have all grabbed Centrino's. So your point about the 6800 ULTRA killing battery life is moot.
This was exactly my point. Owners of the 7700 don't care about battery life, while someone who buys Sonoma/XPS2/9300 would. I don't know if a battery could even handle the 9860 and an 6800 Ultra, but man would I like to see what would happen if it tried.
post #20 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Progneta
I think the xps2 can hold its ground. Offering upgrades in both cpu and gpu... So dell claims... and ideas of pentium m dual core sit to fit the xps2 when dual core released... I think xps2 will launch itself forward in performance as time progresses....
The XPS2 will be legendary if Dell provides upgrades. I think its an awesome machine and am in no way saying its not. However my reason for going Alienware was the history of upgrades, the fact you can co-exist optical drives and have RAID. The ability to upgrade the GPU and the processor. Everyone is focusing on the 6800 ULTRA, we might see a NEXTGEN nVIDIA that has 512mb of ram with about the same core frequency as the regular 6800go. This in effect with DD4 memory would be faster then the ULTRA and not kill battery life. This is plausible because core frequency hasn't changed all that much the last few years until now. If the XPS2 mates dual core then its gonna be a serious hump for AW which will probably come in the form of a new gen 7700...
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