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New technology that allows Li-ions to recharge in 60 seconds.

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Toshiba on Tuesday announced a new lithium-ion battery -- the type used in virtually all laptops -- that recharges 60 times faster than current batteries and loses less than one percent of its capacity after 1,000 recharges.
http://www.informationweek.com/story...08618&tid=5978

I'll take two please!
post #2 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by inotocracy
I'll take two please!
Not if Toshiba is making it...
post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilCacciatore
Not if Toshiba is making it...
And whats wrong with Toshiba? I love my Tecra A4
post #4 of 16
post #5 of 16
Some things to consider which don't appear in the article:

How much storage does this battery have? It might charge fast, but it might only hold a tiny charge.

For a real sized battery, AAs or up to a laptop battery, what sort of time are those going to take to charge?

And, you can only charge as fast as your house current can move power... Am I going to need to plug in my charge to the 240V to get it to charge that fast?

I'm too lazy to do the math. Someone else be geeky.
post #6 of 16
I want them to charge the hybrid / electrical car in 60 seconds, then I will buy one!
post #7 of 16
capacitors can charge pretty quick, most hybrids have an "Ultra Capacitor" maybe they can throw that into a laptop
post #8 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumble
How much storage does this battery have? It might charge fast, but it might only hold a tiny charge.

For a real sized battery, AAs or up to a laptop battery, what sort of time are those going to take to charge?
From the article:

The Japanese technology giant said that it expected to put the new batteries into play in 2006, initially in automotive and industrial applications. One use, Toshiba said, would be within hybrid vehicles, which store power generated when, for instance, the car decelerates.

If the batteries are being developed for use in the automotive industry, hybrid electric cars in particular, then you'd think that they would hold a fair amount of charge. For a notebook sized battery it'll probably be even quicker.
post #9 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by pr50wner
capacitors can charge pretty quick, most hybrids have an "Ultra Capacitor" maybe they can throw that into a laptop
Would you want that kind of power between your legs when using the laptop?! Blow us all to hell if there was a leak! LoL!
post #10 of 16
haha yeah if that shorted there would be a very big light show...most likeley a sound show of screaming and the sound electricity shorting and starting fires. also if you charge a capacitor backwards (large ones) they turn into grenades! this is charing a polarized cap.
post #11 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by smilepak
Would you want that kind of power between your legs when using the laptop?! Blow us all to hell if there was a leak! LoL!
I'd be more worried about intense electric fields that close to the 'nads; combine with wireless and you've got a pretty lethal combo.

I've heard of tinfoil hats... tinfoil underwear anyone?
post #12 of 16
http://notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=72639
i found this before you so no credit to you
post #13 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pclover8891
http://notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=72639
i found this before you so no credit to you
Eh, your source was The Inquirer... plus no one replied to your thread
post #14 of 16
Getting tech off of The Inq is like getting philosophy off of Fox News.

Anyhow, Dan's data comments on this: http://www.dansdata.com/danletters143.htm

And he did the math... He figures that you'd need 28.8 amps (assuming the battery is a standard 3.6V), which comes out at over 100 watts.

So, don't even bother waiting for this sort of thing to show up in your laptop or cellphones. Even though that end-product was implied by the press-release.
post #15 of 16
Well, obviously Toshiba's claims are pretty extreme, and I don't think anyone would be using these batteries in a consumer electronics device at those specs. In a car is a totally different story. There's the other side of this equation that they also didn't talk about, which is the discharge rate. Generally a battery's charge and discharge rates are similar; if this thing can be charged at 28.8 amps then that should mean the cell can also discharge at up to 28.8 amps, and if so that's really amazing, and very important.

Currently lead-acid batteries are used in cars not only because they're the cheapest technology (ok, that may be the deciding factor, true) but also because they have the greatest discharge rate / lowest internal resistance. It takes hundreds of amps to start an engine, and lead-acid batteries can handle that. In an electric car, it takes thousands of watts to spin the motor and move the vehicle. Lead-acid batteries can be safely discharged at currents several times greater than their amp-hour capacity rating. Nickel and Lithium batteries generally can only be charged/discharged at currents up to their amp-hour rating. E.g., a 12V 5 amp-hour lead-acid battery can be discharged at 50 amps for a short period of time, no sweat. But a 3.6V 600mAH LiIon battery should not be discharged at greater than 600mA. Some recent designs tolerate maybe a 2x drain, so 1200mA. One consequence of this is that you need really fat Li or Ni battery packs to power an electric car, to get a total amp-hour rating in the hundreds, to sustain the heavy current demands of the car. And of course you also need to stack these fat packs pretty deep to get the voltages needed for an electric car. The end result is that you wind up with a huge battery array, with a total energy storage more than the car really needs (the tZero can drive over 300 miles on a single charge) just to provide the current capacity that it requires. Now personally, I wouldn't mind an electric car with a range of 300 miles on one charge, but generally I don't drive more than 100 miles in one day, and the car can fully recharge overnight anyway, so to me that's 3x too much capacity. (But then again, I do take the occasional long car trip. Hard to say...)

As for notebook or cellphone use... I'd be willing to stretch that out by a factor of 10. Compared to hours right now, getting to 80% charge in 10 minutes would be nice, and quite a huge improvement, without the ridiculous currents of a 1 minute charge.

I still wonder about it though. Right now I have a laptop that takes a 19V power supply, rated for 3.42 amps, or 65 watts. On idle the laptop consumes around 16W, so presumably the power supply can charge the thing 4 times faster than it uses up power. I think that's pretty good; assuming typical efficiency that means the thing charges in around 75 minutes. So to bring it down to a 10 minute charge would mean cranking it up to 25.65 amps. That's still some serious overkill. Anything over 10 amps is questionable, over 20 amps is really out of the question for a consumer device.

I guess one way around this would be to build packs with even more cells in series and less in parallel, to up the voltage and reduce the charge current needed to deliver the same amount of power. Then the notebook itself would need a really efficient DC-DC converter to suck out the power at the specific voltage and current that it requires.

So if we boosted the max charge current to around 10 amps, that would bring the 75 minute charge time down to 25 minutes. And if we reorganized the pack to have double the voltage and half the amp-hours, it would charge in 12.5 minutes. Close enough, I think, and definitely worthwhile.

For a cellphone, a 10 minute charge would only need 2.8 amps, which I think is already pretty reasonable.
post #16 of 16
do you know what kind of cables/traces needed to support 30amps without melting? that is CRAZY
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