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Hmmm...been googling, any info on when the replacements for the G4 lappy will be out?

post #1 of 14
4/9/05 at 9:23am
Thread Starter 
Hey, I'd been keeping an eye on the G4 lappy for awhile. Unfortunately, though I am a big fan of a lot of things apple (software, propreitary devolopment strategy, etc.) their laptops are WAY underpowered for the money.

Apple ppl always defend them, and rightly so because they are beautifully made consumer electronics with a lof of great features it amazes me other ppl haven't stolen yet, or are jus tstarting to catch on to (superdrive slot-loader, metal exterios, magnesium joints). However, even the die-hard apple faithfull must admit apple does not win the power-for-the-money equation. Even for mainstream stuff like web surfing, MP3 playing and DvD stuff, more power=good, and apples are running the ancient G4s that Motorola built for them? WTF?!

I know IBM had been responsable for the G5, but to me even G5 technology is behind the curve these days. DDR3, SLI graphics, Dual-Core on the rise, etc. A lot of laptops today have 400-533mhz RAM, apple expects ppl to pay for 333 still? Is IBM's sale of it's computer business causing a delay or what?

So, this is not to bash, but a long way of asking for links, gossip, etc on when the next wave of apple lappy's are coming out. I love apple, but when I buy within 6 months, I'm not gonna spend $2-3k on an obselete machine, no matter how pretty it is.
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post #2 of 14
4/9/05 at 10:29am
no doubt, the apple lappies aren't the fastest thing on earth but there are more to it than meets the eye. Don't get me wrong, I'm no hardcore mac user... in fact i don't own a mac yet... tho i have been using it for e past few months pretty frequently. There are so many things in a mac that are so much better compared to a pc. OS-X for example, gosh... i gotta say that after using it, i kind of hate my windows xp now. Not only is the interface beautiful... but everything is so much simpler in os-x. In fact the big complaint about the 1-button mouse can be justified. If you have used OS-X before... you will know that you can actually use it without having the need of a right click button. On top of that... things like firewall and anti-virus are virtually non-existent in the mac world.

At the end of the day, I guess it is about what you want or need. If your main concern is purely speed and nothing else... and things like spyware don't bother you one bit... or you're some hardcore gamer... the pc is for you. If you want efficiency and ease of use... get a mac. If you can't come to a decision, you should first try a mac before dismissing it as just an object of form without functionality.

No, I'm not biased against PCs. It is just that ever since I have used a mac... there are many things I hate about winxp and stuff. I'm no professional in the IT industry... but that's just my opinion between the 2 platforms.
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post #3 of 14
4/9/05 at 2:37pm
I would say by the end of this year, if not this june but this is pure conjecture, The real question is what apple are going to do with it? Dual G4's, a G5 or something completely new (I have this image of a Cell powerbook sitting in my head)
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post #4 of 14
4/9/05 at 2:51pm
i dont' really feel that the g5 is behind the curve at all. There is so much more to take into consideration than just processor speed, bus speed, etc. The architecture of the 2 chips is completely different.. what about beign ahead of the curve on 64 bit processing?

what about not needing to restart due to crashes, or actually being able to BURN that dvd while surfing the web without worrying about making a coaster.. these are other considerations.

the g4 is getting old.. i can't argue with that.. i would think september for a g5, but ANYONE who speculates is just guessing.

I will say though that after using xp for 4 months agaon all the time (and i am an mcse and cna - and they aren't paper certs) i cant wait to get the hell off windows nd back to mac. So much so that even tho my situation doesn't permit me to buy a g4 laptop right now, i'll probably switch to linux anyway.
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post #5 of 14
4/10/05 at 2:50am
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20050408A1001.html

don't know how they got the widescreen reference for the 14" iBook, but if it's on the $, then we might be getting more than just a refresh this year.
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post #6 of 14
4/10/05 at 6:14am
Truthfully I'm surprised they haven't made all their laptops WS before now considering Apple is the company that made WS monitors the new trend. They don't even sell the Studio Displays anymore, they're all Cinema, and of course the 15 and 17 inch PBs are WS.
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post #7 of 14
4/10/05 at 11:30am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by h00ligan
i dont' really feel that the g5 is behind the curve at all. There is so much more to take into consideration than just processor speed, bus speed, etc. The architecture of the 2 chips is completely different.. what about beign ahead of the curve on 64 bit processing?

what about not needing to restart due to crashes, or actually being able to BURN that dvd while surfing the web without worrying about making a coaster.. these are other considerations.

the g4 is getting old.. i can't argue with that.. i would think september for a g5, but ANYONE who speculates is just guessing.

I will say though that after using xp for 4 months agaon all the time (and i am an mcse and cna - and they aren't paper certs) i cant wait to get the hell off windows nd back to mac. So much so that even tho my situation doesn't permit me to buy a g4 laptop right now, i'll probably switch to linux anyway.

SO there hasn't been any rumors or anything. Dissapointing. I was really expecting, after a while not looking, to hear something about the G6 chips, which I kinda expect to be in notebooks. I think they'll skip the G5 if they can't figure out how to fit it in/cool it. That really is disapointing...they are making Apple fans choose between love and performance in a large budget item purchase. That's a bad idea...

I agree there is more to performance than chip speed and stuff...but on every level their RAM is under-spec at the moment, and RAM is where most of ur real world performance comes in. Including their slower drives (they don't offer a 10,000rpm drive at all, period), slower RAM, lack of hyperthreading/speedstep/execute disable features in the processor, I dunno where they would be making up the performance gap... *shrugs*

Yeah, I agree that the OS is a major buff, but here's a breakdown of laptop technology by price right now:

Apple G4

17 inch, 1440x900 res
1.67 Ghz processor
512 SDRAM 333mhz
ATI 9700, 128 mb
100 GB, @ 5400 rpm
Apple Care protection plan
$3, 048.00

Dell XPS Gen 2
17 inch, 1900x1200
2 Ghz processor
512 DDR2 RAM
256 MB 6800 Ultra
70 GB, @ 7200 RPM
Dell XPS Extended Warranty
$2,636 right now, $3,036 retail.

There is no field in which the apple is not behind in technology hardware-wise. You might say "Sure!, You're comparing an almost 2 year old system with the latest PC hardware!" Well...the prices are the same, right? Both 17 inch notebooks? *shrugs* That Apple still uses 333mhz SDRAM and doesn't even offer the 7200rpm drives are amazing to me....that it tries to pawn off that system at that price is even more so.

But, admittedly the G4 is old-tech, so let's take a look at the G5, pimped out desktop unit:

Apple G5
20' flat pannel (smallest u can get? no res stats on the site either)
Dual 2.5 Ghz processors, 64mb capability (couldn't find a Fsb speed?)
1 Gb PC 3200 DDR 400mhz
Nvidea 6800 Ultra DLL (whoa mama!)
250 GB, @ 7200rpm SATA drive
Apple Protection Plan

This drool-worthy system is yours for a meager $5,676.00
Almost $6k!!!

So, obviously this opens up the pricerange for comparison to a PC model...with many vendors to choose from

Hmmm...well, dual processor desktops are hard to find right now...trying to find a perfect apples to apples comparsion didn't really work. Dual-Core processors and 64 bit are on the rise for intel, the best direct comparsion will be this in a month or so: http://reviews.cnet.com/Alienware_Ar...05.html?tag=mp or an even better price solution will be out from Dell soon, in their XPS Gen 5 desktop, which will have dual-cpu and dual-gpu on 64mb chips.

Even on Athlon systems, whose FX chips will blow away the G5, you are more likely to find dual-GPUs than dual-processors. For this comparison, I feel confident this system from Alienware could more than keep up:

Alienware Aurora ALX
20.1' display
Athlon FX-55, 1600mhz fsb, 64mb
1Gb, 550Mhz
Dual GeForce 6800 GT PCI Express 256MB DDR3
250GB Serial ATA 7,200 RPM w/8MB Cache
3 year Alienware protection plan
$5,525.00


So, I think it is more than fair to say Apple is behind the hardware times...

Again, really not trying to flame Apple, I frikin love some of their stuff, but their excellent OS has been carrying their asses for years, and I am kinda tired of rooting for the underdog. If they can't "hack" keeping up with the technology, then they should by all means just re-package PC components and make their software and OS just an option. I feel like I'm waiting for the Orlando Magic to win another NBA playoff or something..."C'mon, guys! I been waiting long enough! Frikin pick it up already!"

Also, even the OS argument may not be too viable. Windows is taking it's sweet time with "Longhorn", but it will be here soon and I look forward to good things from it.

Buying new Apples at this point is like paying Mercedes Benz prices for a Hyundai...I love ya, Apple, but I'm just not biting.
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post #8 of 14
4/10/05 at 2:58pm
Ok...

So, what exactly do you do that requires the 10,000 RPM hard drives and super-sonic speed of each and every small thing in a computer? Or do you just enjoy comparing numbers?
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post #9 of 14
4/10/05 at 5:58pm
load 10 apps on a powerbook and compare that to another laptop.
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post #10 of 14
4/10/05 at 6:09pm
As much as I love the powerbooks apple really needs to come out with some new hardware fast or they're gonna have real issues justifying their hardware on a price performance level (they already do in a way, especially with dual core and stuff like that around the corner) they have to start producing dual core chips or something completely new.

The hard drives are a moot point, if you want to put in some Raptops then do it, longhorn looks to me like bloatware, I honestly don't understand why an OS would require 128 MB of VRAM to do, If you ask me MS should start from scratch with a new kernel (a la OSX) and give users an option to run in the NT enviroment. It seems that every update the OS gets more bloated, 2000 was NT with extra crap (and NTFS I think) and XP is NT with extra software. You see the same trend with win9x

Wouldn't it be good to see longhorn actually speed up a windows based system?
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post #11 of 14
4/10/05 at 11:47pm
semisonic9,
agreed. we'd all like to see some upgrades in apple's laptops. but again, u've waded into the classic oranges to oranges comparison. being a long time windows user and system builder, my recent purchase last fall of my iBook put a lot of things into perspective for me. it was a tentative purchase, despite all of my research. i was fully ready to take advantage of amazon's 30 day, no restocking fee, return policy if the computer under performed. as u'll note in a number of my posts and my review of the 12" iBook, it can spank the hell out of my desktop in most multitasking situations, especially those that place the system under heavy load. my response to this from the get-go was, "this 1.2Ghz machine shouldn't be able to do this..." given my experience w/ AMD/intel machines. my experience w/ the low end 12" iBook has been anything but disappointing, and hence, well worth the money i put into it.
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post #12 of 14
4/11/05 at 7:19am
compare the weight of the xps to the poerbook, then find a 17" that weighs in under 7 lbs in the pc world.. and is quiet and runs cool.

once you do that spec it out.. no way that 6800 ultra runsin a thin and light .. not now.
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post #13 of 14
4/11/05 at 9:21am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by triadone
semisonic9,
agreed. we'd all like to see some upgrades in apple's laptops. but again, u've waded into the classic oranges to oranges comparison. being a long time windows user and system builder, my recent purchase last fall of my iBook put a lot of things into perspective for me. it was a tentative purchase, despite all of my research. i was fully ready to take advantage of amazon's 30 day, no restocking fee, return policy if the computer under performed. as u'll note in a number of my posts and my review of the 12" iBook, it can spank the hell out of my desktop in most multitasking situations, especially those that place the system under heavy load. my response to this from the get-go was, "this 1.2Ghz machine shouldn't be able to do this..." given my experience w/ AMD/intel machines. my experience w/ the low end 12" iBook has been anything but disappointing, and hence, well worth the money i put into it.
Hmmm...interesting. I would like to know what makes them so capable of multi-tasking. I'd hear their main prowess these days was multimedia and stuff, but given the hardware I just thought that was in the relatively low cost of the various programs they had. Given some of the outdated techware, I kinda just thought that was a myth.

What do I do with my computer? Well, that requires good techware I do lots of gaming, usually online and pvp, which is pretty much as involved as it gets from a techware perspecitve// I'm also in a computer engineering program, and do some web-page development on my own. Haven't really gotten into much multimedia stuff, but I'll be doing Flash and Java and all that soon, and anything to help out my web pages looks good to me.
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post #14 of 14
4/11/05 at 4:55pm
imagine giving hyperthreading capabilities to a pentium M. multitasking is boosted per the G4's abilities as well as OS X. re: the CPU...as noted it has it's own version of "hyperthreading", and has a short and swift execution pipeline. check anandtech's review of the mini or powermac to learn more, however he attributes the MT abilities to OS X as opposed to a specific focus on the hardware. a good example as anand notes is importing video into iMovie, which converts it to DV format on the fly, during which the rest of a 512MB RAM OS is readily accessible. let's just say, it's damned uncanny.

as noted @ anandtech in regard to the Mini:

Quote:
Quite possibly the most impressive part of the whole iMovie HD experience is the responsiveness of the application. Regardless of what you're doing, the application remains just as responsive as if you were doing nothing. It boils down to the thread management of the OS and application, as well as how iMovie handles the UI when other things are going on. For example, if you're applying an effect to a portion of a clip and decide that you want to preview another clip, it will momentarily pause the effect rendering while you perform other tasks. Armed with 512MB of memory, the performance of iMovie HD on the Mac mini was more than acceptable, surprisingly enough, even while actually editing and multitasking.
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