TECRA M3 Review - oymd

wow...im not liking these reviews of the m3 sounds alot worse than the preceeding m2 ever was. the screen issues may be a not so good screen but it could also be the result of its resolution, it can play some eye tricks on you at times, especially if your used to ultra high quality monitors. the heat and graphics card issues are ones i see as really important and disconcerting, since they need to be addressed right now by toshiba in my opinion. still the saving grace is that you got a decent price, might not be perfect but at least your price was pretty good.

looks like my recomendations are going to be shifting to other models in the tecra line, such as the a4 and s2 if this seems to be a persistant issue with quality.

you can download Nvidia drivers from laptopvideo2go.com. However, in your case, you might just want to take fidget's advice and get a different system, since it seems it's not up to your expectations.

oymd, perhaps you're ID'ing a difference between the XGA and the UXGA (1400x1050) displays, but, I'd like to suggest you take a look at some settings. I'm presuming you have the same flexibility I do with my 1400x1050 display, which gives me the blackest of blacks and whitest of whites. I happened across a test screen which I can't seem to find right now but when I do, I'll let you know how to find it. Anyway, check the following:

Right-click on your desktop and click Properties.

Ensure your screen resolution is max'd ... and color quality is set to highest (32 bit?)
Then click "Advanced"
Under GeForce Go6200/6600... tab, ensure:
Single Display
Digital Flat Panel
Then click the button, GeForce Go6200/6600...
Play around, but of significance, look at the "color correction" tab ...
be sure the Digital Vibrance is all the way left (not right/off), and center the brightness, contrast and gamma. I have my image sharpening all the way left. Video overlay settings: center hue and saturation. Perhaps this will help.

P.S. While my fan is loud and system generates some heat, it's not nearly as bad as you're describing ... I'm wearing a pair of boxer shorts and I've had my M3 on my lap for 2 hours now (plugged-in). My left leg is a little warmer than my right leg, but not uncomfortable by any means. If your system is that hot with only a 1.6GHz system, I'd suggest you bring it back and try another one. I'm pushing 2.13GHz and full video and I sound cooler than you're running. I don't have front vents either (?).

I'm not defending Toshiba or the M3 ... it's exactly what I wanted and still no regrets after another week. I'm getting used to the stiffer buttons but I'd still prefer less tension.

Good luck / regards,
Rich

In regards to such a low 3dmark 2001 score (5000), the best argument i could come up with would be the documentation on Toshiba's Webpage regarding the graphic processor.
(note, you do have a 6600 TE TE = toshiba edition).

Toshiba published information on what that means on their webpage.
To get to that information:
www.toshiba.com
click on products and services.
click on Notebook Pcs
click on Technical Support
click on Downloads
Select the Tecra M3 system and click GO.
click on the downloads link (in the right frame that appears).
look for the below:
03-01-2005 User Guide/Addenda Addendum Addressing Graphics Specification Update for Tecra M3 (v1.0; 03-01-2005; 25K)

To quote that PDF file:
Updated Information
For Your Computer's Graphics Processor
The following information supersedes that which is
contained in the documentation that shipped with
your Tecra® M3 Series computer, and reflects the
most up-to-date information for your system.
Technology and processor
Graphics 64 Mb nVIDIA® GeForce™ Go 6200 or 128Mb nVIDIA®
GeForce™ Go 6600 256-bit graphics accelerator;
BitBLT hardware, Alpha-blending, Direct3D® and
OpenGL support*
*Graphics processor unit ("GPU") performance may vary
depending on product model, design configuration, applications,
power management settings and features utilized.
GPU performance is only optimized when operating in AC
power mode and may decrease considerably when operating
in battery power mode.
The graphics processor is optimized for *** this specific computer *** (hense the TE, Toshiba Edition)
model and *** GPU performance will be slower than the
standard GeForce™ Go 6200/6600. *** GPU performance is
only optimized at ambient temperatures between 5° C and
30° C (41° F to 86° F) .

PMA500133010



Now if you want a system with a Normal 6600, the Tecra S2 does -not- have a 6600 TE (it has a regular 6600).



Think that might answer the question. The 3dmark 2003 score you posted looks nice though


That all aside, question for you Tecra M3 owners.
Do you have any settings for Nvidia Powermizer under the advanced graphical settings tab? (i.e. can you adjust GPU performance or any other Nvidia powersaving techniques on the NVIDIA tab, or has toshiba disabled these features on this system?????)

Thanks.
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Quote:
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Here are some updated Benchmarks ATER changing the Graphics settings to performance etc...
---

Benchmark scores look much better (remember this is a laptop/notebook, so those scores are -nice- for such a mobile/small system).
In regards to the performance mode though, was that the Nvidia Powermizer option? Or some other option?

In regards to the Nvidia Graphic offerings, here they are in a nutshell.

Geforce Go 6200 = 100% dedicated v-ram.
Geforce Go 6200 TC = Turbo Cache. = has a small amount of dedicated v-ram, and it -also- allocates some system ram for video.
Geforce Go 6200 TE = Toshiba Edition = dedicated v-ram, but gpu is clocked approx. 25% slower than the normal Geforce Go 6200. Also, the TE gpus use additional thermal settings to 'slow down' the Gpu when the temperature reaches certain points. This is to maintain cooler operating environments.

Thus in a nutshell, TE = a slower version of the 6200. TC = uses dedicated + shared v-ram.

Geforce Go 6600 = 100% dedicated v-ram.
Geforce Go 6600TC = Does not exist.
Geforce Go 6600TE = Toshiba Edition = dedicated v-ram but gpu is clocked approx 25% slower than the normal Geforce Go 6600 offerings in order to maintain cooler temps and lower power usage. Also, the TE gpus use additional thermal settings to 'slow down' the Gpu when the temperature reaches certain trip-points (set in the video-bios).


so the tecra M3 definately has 100% dedicated v-ram, however it runs slower by default, and will slow down further when thermal environments reach pre-set temperatures (the pdf file shown above lists the ambient temps).


So conclusion:
TE = Toshiba Edition (Slower Edition)
TC = Turbo Cache (shared v-ram + dedicated v-ram are both used)
oh yeah and Ultra = Ultra (faster edition).

If no designation is present, then consider it "Normal Edition". lol

Hope this clears things up for you. Also, if you have Powermizer (GPU power settings for the graphic chip), could you post a screenshot showing which options it lets you set? (either that or list them if possible) ?
I.e. I'm curious if there are separate settings for Battery and AC, and if you have 2 or 3 options (i.e. slow, medium, fast).

Please let me know, and I hope the info above helps.
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Quote:
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I checked in SYSTEM PROPERTIES in 3DMark 2005...it turns out that our 6600 TE is CLOCKED AT:
Core: 225MHz versus 375MHz on a regular 6600
Memory: 200 Mhx versus 300MHz on a regular 6600

So from what your saying...they are EXACTLY THE SAME CHIPS, just with LOWER CLOCK SPPEDS...ie...if by some crazy means I overclock it using POWERSTRIP to its STOCK SPEEDS OF 375/300 MHZ...it will work....
I know...I know...thats an Impossible OVERCLOCK....but if they are the SAME CHIPS...then 375/300 are the ACTUAL STOCK SPEEDS and Toshiba has UNDERCLOCKED the 6600 TE....and I am just CLOCKING IT BACK TO STOCK SPEEDS

Guess if I do that ...the laptop will MELT!!!!
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Well first just an overview of "stock speeds".
As far as I have seen, Nvidia has offered the 6600 Go (normal) at speeds ranging from 275mhz to 375mhz. It is up to the notebook manufacturer to determine which clock speed to set it at.
Most are picking 275 to 333mhz (since it's less power consumption, and less heat, thus easier to design around).


But yeah, the TE (toshiba edition) is pretty much underclocked, but 1 other thing is the thermal trip-point option.
Thus you could overclock, but would need to find a way to keep the gpu much cooler (which would be very difficult to do given the space-constraints inside the system case chasis ).

Remember, 'stock speeds' for graphic cards (or gpus to be more specific), are set with "stock air-flow and stock cooling options". That said, if you could acquire the heatsink assembly for a 'normal' 6600, and ensure that it would receive adequate airflow, you would likely be able to push your chip up to 'stock speeds'.

However, airflow is out, and using a better heatsink+heatpipe would be difficult due to room constraints.
Finally, the TE versions are likely not tested at higher speeds, which means that they could (in theory) be lower quality chips (but the -same- design and same features).

If you are into overclocking, I would say try 250mhz for the gpu, and 215mhz for the v-ram.
NOTE: I personally do -not- recommend overclocking laptops/notebooks, but if you are planning on doing so, I say 250mhz gpu core as a theoretical max, only because of thermal limitations.

Once again thanks for the pictures. Exactly what I was looking for!

Oh and btw, Ati does the same thing with their Mobile Gpus. They released review samples of the Radeon Mobility 9600 at 350Mhz, and faster for the PRO version.

About 4 months after it's release, they changed it so 333Mhz would be "Pro" because notebook manufacturers did -not- like the heat or powerconsumption of the gpu at 350mhz, so none really adopted it.
Funny as it may be, the Hp/Compaq Nc6000 has a radeon 9600 mobility clocked at 250mhz. And sure enough, there is no way to tell that it's clocked that low. (i.e. No TE or in this case HP-E).

At least with the 6600, they are nice enough to put a "TE", so we can
at least realize that there's a spec difference.

Anyway, that said, For a 225mhz gpu, the scores you're posted are awesome!
They are up there with the -desktop- Radeon 9500 and -desktop- Geforce 5600 cards. And for a notebook as small as the M3, that's nice to know it can perform.

If you're wanted the better performance and want to stick with Toshiba, the Tecra S2 offers the normal 6600 (my guess would be clocked anywhere from 275 to 300).
from what I've seen it's not -that- much larger (15" screen vs. 14, and approx 1-2 pounds more).

But overall, it looks like the Tecra M3 seems to be a decent performer, even though it's definately not designed to be a gaming machine. :-)


And once again thanks for the screenshots!!
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disappointed

Well, I saw the TE but I didn't know what it stood for. My M3 with 6600 TE is coming Tuesday, though my enthusiasm is now dampened somewhat. Wasn't there a big deal with the Compaq X1000 and the video card? Not quite the same situation, but I'm a little bummed nonetheless. And a 15% restocking fee if I decide not to keep it because of the lower performance! I thought the reported fan noise was a result of the 6600 at typical speeds and I was hoping I could undervolt the CPU and get the sound down. So the 6600 is clocked low and the fan still comes on alot? Bummer deal.

Regarding the Hp/Compaq X1000/zt3000/nx7000 notebooks, the issue with the graphic card was that if you ordered a Radeon 9200, the driver reported it as a Radeon 9200,
however people removed the keyboard and found that the GPU was that of a 9000 (same pci-Id as a radeon 9000 too).

So that's a completely different issue. It was listed as a radeon 9200, but the chip was a radeon 9000.

For the tecra m3, fan is likely a result of hot ram, the cpu, gpu, and v-ram, all in such a small space and a conservative formula in the bios to keep the system cool.
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disappointed part 2

The 6600 was the reason I chose the M3 over the Asus w3v. The 6600TE is now only marginally better than the x600 in the w3v.

I know the situation with the X1000 I didn't say the situations were exactly the same, but the situations are similar. The lack of a firm definition of exactly what a mobile graphics card is and does is a problem. It's been pretty well established that a "standard" 6600 is better than a x600. A 6600 TE is only marginally better than an X600 from what I can tell. If anyone has benchies that show a significant difference, that would make me feel alot better but I've seen ~1200-1300 quoted for 3dmark05 for the x600 which is similar to the 6600 TE here. The "typical" 6600's are averaging ~2200.

If I knew then what I know now, I might have ordered an ASUS w3v with the x600.

Well it's good to hear you are liking it more and more. Have you tried undervolting it to reduce noise and heat? My MSI 510C went from 65C to 46C under full load and the Dell M70 I'm contemplating went from 63C to 51C under full load (not taxing the GPU much though). What's the temperature of the M3 under full load?

The issue with me is that if I had known what the performance of the 6600TE was, I would have continued looking at other thin and light notebooks. The 6600 Nvidia name made the M3 an easy sale when it shouldn't have been. Saying the performance will be lower than other 6600's is kind of misleading. If they had given me the frequency when I ordered, it might have made me think more. As it was, I figured it would just be at the low end of the Nvidia range rather than below the given range.

The bummer is that if I decide to return it, I have to pay 15% restocking fee.

I'll hold off that issue though until I can check it out. Maybe I'll shrug it off once I get it on Tuesday.