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5660 HT / video chipset - Page 13

post #241 of 348
10/15/03 at 6:27am
Henrik: One thing I noticed, no matter how many times I run your program, I never got a nag screen....

So, how much battery can you save with this, realisically, while still keeping it useable?

NS
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post #242 of 348
10/15/03 at 6:37am
Quote:
Originally posted by Henrik
NS? Sorry I was a little bit rude in my last postings to you, I was really tired The thing that seemed to be news for you was that the Pentium 4 has internal throttling, its exactly like the throttling when it runs hot, except that I make it on-demand.
Yeah, I wasn't aware the P4 could throttle on demand. Strange it hasn't been mentioned more anywhere either...

NS
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post #243 of 348
10/15/03 at 6:39am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by NightShade737
Henrik: One thing I noticed, no matter how many times I run your program, I never got a nag screen....

So, how much battery can you save with this, realisically, while still keeping it useable?

NS
Its not really a nag screen, but the first time you start the program it pops up a "fatal application error" or something, down by the taskbar, but this is only a info about the not licenced device driver.

Battery time? I dont really know, its up to you people to find out. I always use ac. I dont even want to guess, but I'm sure its a lot. Ok, I make a guess anyway. If you dont use any cpu-intensive programs, just read text and surf the net or whatever, I wouldnt get surprised if you get twice the time out of the battery when you downclock to 1/8.
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post #244 of 348
10/15/03 at 6:41am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by NightShade737
Yeah, I wasn't aware the P4 could throttle on demand. Strange it hasn't been mentioned more anywhere either...

NS
I was also really surprised that I seems to be the first with this one for any laptop. Its just as good as speedstep, so who need a mobile-cpu? Of course speedstep is automatically up/down-clocking, but that can be fixed.
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post #245 of 348
10/15/03 at 6:43am
Thread Starter 
I wrote
Quote:
I always use ac
My main goal with this program and the temp monitor was to cool the cpu down if needed. And I really liked my results, when I downclocked to match your speed, I also got your temperature.
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post #246 of 348
10/15/03 at 5:06pm
Thread Starter 
I have some news for you regarding the battery saver. The program sets the slider when started to reflect the actual setting. If the program is open all the time it doesnt poll the settings, so you have to close and start to find out the actual setting.

I have found out two things.
1. Max Battery setting in control panel / power options means 50% downclocking.
2. acpi/bios/windows changes the setting to 50% with some regular interval even if Battery Saver have set it to 12,5%

Number two means that you are probably using 50% clock even if 12,5% was intended.

I have to change the Battery Saver in order to work around this. All tests that have been done by you are probably not valid.
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post #247 of 348
10/15/03 at 5:49pm
Thread Starter 
Battery Saver

The new version 1.1 is now available, download it from the old location. I just updated the zip-archive.

I dont know if all powerschemes behaves like "Max Battery". You have to find out. Anyway, if you want the new setting to stay put, if needed, you have to have the program running, but minimized is ok.
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post #248 of 348
10/15/03 at 7:25pm
I have tested it. I feel all things are much more slow.

The hot is the same at the end. I thing the solution for my problem must be in the fans.

What program you are using in order to make reverse engineering and your uitilities?

Thanks for all Henrik.

[quote]Originally posted by Henrik
[b]After done some more bios reverse engineering I have made this program called battery saver. It allows you to underclock your Sager in 1/8 decrements from 100% down to 12,5%. Its exacly like the bios setting does but with some differences. The bios
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post #249 of 348
10/16/03 at 12:19am
Henrik, here's one for you. You remember my overhat problem?
I removed the stock tin and goo and used just plain heatsink grease as it should be, that might have helped a tiny bit, but as previous experience has shown, not much really. Now here's the interisting part..

I still get an overheat shutdown in 4-6 minutes with the acpi disable and your temp program running, BUT, with it not disabled and your program not running, all other factors equal, I can run cpu burn for hours and it never shuts down. I'm guessing ACPI takes over from the bios somehow, perhaps throttleing the CPU?
This is not a fluke, it's very repeatable, I've done it a dozen times tonight playing with it. The only thing I can think to try in addition is with acpi disable and your temp program NOT running.

And the throttling utility works pretty darn well also, droping to 50% got me temps as I'd really like to be seeing.

Planning on updating to your bios and leaving HT disabled for the time being, just to see what happens.
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post #250 of 348
10/16/03 at 3:43am
Thread Starter 
Ramses, thanks for interesting feedback

Quote:
I still get an overheat shutdown in 4-6 minutes with the acpi disable and your temp program running, BUT, with it not disabled and your program not running, all other factors equal, I can run cpu burn for hours and it never shuts down. I'm guessing ACPI takes over from the bios somehow, perhaps throttleing the CPU?
I think your conclusion is correct, the acpi throttles the cpu. Its not necessarily a bad thing to have the heat-downthrottling disabled when running these tests. Now you get the idea of how hot the cpu really gets without being fooled by the downthrottling. What this is suggesting is that when you are hardcore gaming or doing any cpu-intensive work your computer is in fact running slower than spec because of the heat-downthrottling. This is probably why Sager never put 3.06 GHz in the 5660.

A useful utility would be to monitor the heat-downthrottling itself as well as the temp when acpi is enabled.

Your computer still seems to get hotter then the others here, including mine. NS 2,4 Ghz maxed at 70 degress. I have made some more tests and I have never got above 78 and it took really long time to get there, so maybe there is something you can do hardware-wise to make it cooler, but I dont know what.



Quote:
And the throttling utility works pretty darn well also, droping to 50% got me temps as I'd really like to be seeing.
It was really for this reason I made the utility, the battery saver thing was just a gimmick from my marketing department


Quote:
Planning on updating to your bios and leaving HT disabled for the time being, just to see what happens.
Good luck!
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post #251 of 348
10/16/03 at 3:53am
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Wriggly
[b]I have tested it. I feel all things are much more slow.

The hot is the same at the end. I thing the solution for my problem must be in the fans.

What program you are using in order to make reverse engineering and your uitilities?

Thanks for all Henrik.

Quote:
Originally posted by Henrik
After done some more bios reverse engineering I have made this program called battery saver. It allows you to underclock your Sager in 1/8 decrements from 100% down to 12,5%. Its exacly like the bios setting does but with some differences. The bios
My main development tool is Borland C++ Builder. In order to reverse engineer, I have made my own utilities. I wouldnt recommend you to try this, unless you have long time assembler-programming experience and experience from system development in general.
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post #252 of 348
10/16/03 at 6:39am
Thread Starter 
I used a vacuum cleaner to suck the hot air from the vents and went from 52 degrees idleing to 36 degrees

My god, what a relief, the computer was nearly dead quiet! I havent thought of have much annoying the sound of the fans really is.

The fans came on at 58 again, and I think the computer want to have them on until the temp drop to 49'ish something. Thats really bad because my comp idle at 51 right now so the fans never stops. I will investigate into either lower the idle temp or have the cooling scheme changed. Wriggly, I guess you would want full blast from the fans all the time
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post #253 of 348
10/16/03 at 10:09am
Quote:
Originally posted by Henrik
I used a vacuum cleaner to suck the hot air from the vents and went from 52 degrees idleing to 36 degrees

My god, what a relief, the computer was nearly dead quiet! I havent thought of have much annoying the sound of the fans really is.

The fans came on at 58 again, and I think the computer want to have them on until the temp drop to 49'ish something. Thats really bad because my comp idle at 51 right now so the fans never stops. I will investigate into either lower the idle temp or have the cooling scheme changed. Wriggly, I guess you would want full blast from the fans all the time
Mine seems to be running 90% of the time aswell now, unless I am in a really cold place (Warbiking down by the river at like 7am).

NS
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post #254 of 348
10/16/03 at 10:25am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by NightShade737
Mine seems to be running 90% of the time aswell now, unless I am in a really cold place (Warbiking down by the river at like 7am).

NS
ok, my fans have to be on all the time, otherwise the temp will increase, I guess its better to have them on constantly than they goes on and off all the time.

Anyhow, its rather amazing that those small fans are able to cool a 3.06 GHz HT Processor enough. The heatsink in a desktop is huge in comparison.
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post #255 of 348
10/16/03 at 10:46am

Dos....Windows ....

Umm, Henrik, get linux, load the latest acpi developpement, http://acpi.sourceforge.net , and realise how RETARDED acpi implementation is on win32 OSes. No offences, but all your work ( aprt the custom bios ) as been archived long before, and without using something as archaik and outdated as Dos. I will love the check your programs, but he, i have never managed to press yes at the MS EULA agreement at install on my own computers, proof that i must be the only one who really reads it. This is not a MS flame, just want you to see that throttling, limits, alarms, and cooling system enabling ( Fans ON ) can be set by the user at the temperature YOU desire. As well temperature of the hdd and processor is always visible. I am sure this will be good for your work.

<laclasse@screamer:~$> hddtemp /dev/hda
/dev/hda: HITACHI_DK23DA-40: 39 C


<laclasse@screamer:~$> cd /proc/acpi
<laclasse@screamer:/proc/acpi$> ls
ac_adapter asus button embedded_controller fadt info processor thermal_zone
alarm battery dsdt event fan power_resource sleep
<laclasse@screamer:/proc/acpi$>

<laclasse@screamer:/proc/acpi$> ls -l /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/THM0/
total 0
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Oct 16 15:48 cooling_mode
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Oct 16 15:48 polling_frequency
-r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Oct 16 15:48 state
-r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Oct 16 15:48 temperature
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Oct 16 15:48 trip_points
<laclasse@screamer:/proc/acpi$>

<laclasse@screamer:/proc/acpi$> ls /proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/
info limit power throttling

<laclasse@screamer:/proc/acpi$> cat /proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/throttling
state count: 8
active state: T0
states:
*T0: 00%
T1: 12%
T2: 25%
T3: 37%
T4: 50%
T5: 62%
T6: 75%
T7: 87%
<laclasse@screamer:/proc/acpi$>

FYOI, ls == dir . This is NOT the complete control ACPI implements on Linux, just the essentials. Hope that helps.
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post #256 of 348
10/16/03 at 10:50am

oops

Forget to tell, that, YES, all can be changed ON-THE-FLY. Here is me setting a 62 % throttle on my processor , and back to no throttle:

screamer:/proc/acpi# echo 5 > /proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/throttling
screamer:/proc/acpi# cat /proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/throttling
state count: 8
active state: T5
states:
T0: 00%
T1: 12%
T2: 25%
T3: 37%
T4: 50%
*T5: 62%
T6: 75%
T7: 87%
screamer:/proc/acpi#

screamer:/proc/acpi# echo 0 > /proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/throttling
screamer:/proc/acpi# cat /proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/throttling
state count: 8
active state: T0
states:
*T0: 00%
T1: 12%
T2: 25%
T3: 37%
T4: 50%
T5: 62%
T6: 75%
T7: 87%
screamer:/proc/acpi#
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post #257 of 348
10/16/03 at 11:18am
Hmm....... this may be worth me looking in to. I'll check the ACPI error message when I get home.

I am just still stuck with not being able to resize my reiserFS partition though, and I cant install Linux on this machine as PArtition magic complains about a Bad filename.

NS
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post #258 of 348
10/16/03 at 12:33pm

partition

NS, as i issued to you before, i never heard of SOMETHING that can alltogether MOVE your existing partition to new blocks and boundaries and keep the data on it. You will have to reinstall linux, or waste some of your disk keeping the present. Tough choice that you ought to take.
Hope that helps.
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post #259 of 348
10/16/03 at 2:12pm
Thread Starter 
laclasse,

I am in no way pro-MS or anti-linux/unix. If fact, I used unix on a daily basis during my MSc computer science years at the university back then.

But I think you may have misunderstood my motivation a little bit.
Yes, its easy for you to change all those settings in linux, but thats because someone else made it easy for you. Do you know how the embedded controller works? Do you know how the internals of ACPI works? Do you know how the software interacts with the hardware? I can go on forever. This is the questions I'm asking myself and I'm learning it bit by bit. It simply hasnt anything to do with the OS. What I enjoy, is to learn how things really work, and why they do.

Strangely enough when I started to hang out at this forum, less than three weeks ago, all posts I could find about monitoring temperature said that it was impossible because of hardware limitations. That someone would enable hyper-threading on the 5660 was just unthinkable.

I am not using "something as archaik and outdated as Dos". I am using assembler programming, and thats about the coolest thing to do, if you ask me. The only thing that beats that is to microcode a processor, when you actually design the assembler language itself. Now we are talking close to the metal.

To tell you the truth, when its too easy, I get bored. I'm also happy that I can bring some useful utilities to all windows-users out there.
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post #260 of 348
10/16/03 at 2:15pm
Thread Starter 
laclasse,

I forgot to mention, the main reason for me to use windows, is simply because all my customers do
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