Why did Sager let HP beat them to the punch? - Page 2

When I get my 8890 it won't be used for gaming very much at all. I very rarely play games. Mine will be a work and fun machine. I work as a 3d artist all day and that's why I want a fast gfx card. 3d apps can get very taxing for lower end chips. I do have a pair of desktop machines as well with decent cards in them, but I really love hi-rez laptop screens to work on, so I do all my modeling, texturing etc. on my laptop and export to the desktop for game testing (yes, I make games, not play them), or If I'm working at home it'll get run on the laptop.

In my field, there is no such thing as too fast or too big. Whatever they come out with, we manage to bring it to it's knees in no time

8890 for life..

I also take my 8890 with me every MWF to school(and yeah I walk for about 20 minutes with this thing from the back of the parking lot!!!)
But compared to what marines have to carry I should be thankful : )

But anyways its well worth having it for in between classes, I can work on my assignments or game anywhere on campus with wireless : P

Now regards to the original post, I dont think paying that much for weight is worth it.... I would hold out for a bit if you can for other options.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why did Sager let HP beat them to the punch?

Video editing = CPU power
Photoshop = CPU power
Maya =GPU and CPU power
Rhino... no clue
AutoCAD= some GPU, mostly CPU.

The Centrino certainly doenst fit the CPU bill, and the GPU is only really called for in one of those examples (well, i dont know what rhino is, so...).

Anyway, i guess this just proves i dont understand people.. you want a good, portable machine, but want mostly useless hardware (Banias.. lol) for advanced stuff....

Well, here's my personal experience: I SEVERELY doubt that any of your 3d modelling apps are going to stress the 9600 much, unless you're dealing with Pixar level models. My personal favorite is blender, and to tell you the truth, I can't see a difference when modelling between my desktop's GeForce2MX and the 8890's M10. I can't really see why you'd need a gaming graphics card if all you want to do is some 3d modelling... I bet even the built-in graphics card of the 3750 would be enough...

You're not serious!

Even a moderately complex scene in most 3d apps will crush most GPU's without even thinking about it. The CPU does a good amount of work in rendering, but everything in the viewports is heavy duty GPU work. Having to navigate dense geometry on a slow card is downright painful.

Given the choice of fast GPU and slow CPU or fast CPU and slow GPU, I'd choose the former anyday. As someone with 19 years experience in computer graphics I think I can safely say I'm qualified to make such a brash statement. Why do you think 3d workstation cards run into the thousands? The next best thing to a high end card is a good game card. They don't have quite the sheer grunt of the workstation cards but they are a hell of a lot cheaper. Rendering is just one part of the process, all the stuff leading up to that is where the GPU reigns.

Danner is not quite as Kooky as you might imagine.

Good point! A maxed out 8890 w 3.2P4 etc. is dicey enough heat wise. Using it for battery based gaming, where you might discharge the battery in 30~60 minutes is really asking for trouble due to the increased heat load from rapidly discharging the battery.

Better to think of the 8890's battery as an attached power backup!

Oh, re the HP ODM, I think that HP typically uses Quanta who are generally considered the best. So think twice before knocking HP's quality.

Actually, I think that HP should be commended for consistently using a good ODM. Dell and Sony seem to be all over the lot. Some times, for some models, they seem to use high quality manufacturers and sometimes not. Makes it hard to know what to expect!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Why did Sager let HP beat them to the punch?

You're been kinda stuborn and short sighthed here mate. Laptops can be used to more than one thing you know?

With a centrino laptop, you can play any game in the market (yes, a centrino 1.7 with an ATI 9600 Pro is supossed to have enough punch to run any game out there since the gaming bottleneck in the GPU rather than the CPU) AND, on top of that, you will be able to watch a full DVD in the bed without having to carry the AC brick and wires around, or being able to work sitting in the garden a sunny sunday morning without buying a wire extension, etc etc.

I personally think Centrino processors are the future of the laptop industry over regular desktop boards. I can see tons of adventages for them (battery duration, reduction of heat, etc) unless you are ONLY concerned about pure gaming performance.

I wish I could have a 17" widescreen, ATI 9600 Pro Laptop with a Centrino 1.7 processor. I would purchase it within a heartbeat.



Cheers.

I thought HP was using Compal as their ODM - or is that just for the x1000's?

Funny how a few years ago a laptop weighing 10lbs was considered normal and everybody was cool about it. Now you say 10lbs and they look at you like you are carrying a dinosaur. I carry my 8890 around with me and I don't even notice it weight wise. It is a bit of a non-event really.

Heat wise again, my 8890-V (3.2 etc etc) gets warm but not hot, even playing games on batteries the exhaust port only reaches about body temperature (38-39 deg C - I stuck a temp probe next to it for a while). I do notice the keyboard gets hotter than my old Toshiba but that did not have a gig-o-ram nor a 9600 pro under it.

Battery recharge will make the batteries a bit warm but not excessively so (recharging Li-ion has to be voltage/current/temp controlled pretty accurately as they are quite funny about having electrons shoved back in there).

My take on danner's use, I would go CPU grunt even over GPU (although for rendering I agree about having a good GPU).

Besides the technical issues, I was originally looking at an HP before I got my Sager - what swayed me against HP was the crappy feel of the HP boxes (same as Dell imho). My 8890 on the other hand is built like a brick out house (some would say it looks like one too ). Feels absolutely solid unlike the HP/Dell casings.

Why all the dissing of the centrino?

I had a 1.4 ghz Compaq x1030 with a 32 meg Radeon 9000 (until I returned it to Best Buy). I played the new Jedi Knight Academy and Homeworld 2 at 1280X1024 and they both played great - nary a hickup.

I returned it because I knew that the Radeon 9000 wasn't going to handle Dx9 games well. I suspect that a Centrino 1.7 with a 9600 Pro would be a great team for games and while it wouldn't quite match a tweaked out 5680, my own experiences with the Centrino make me think that it would be pretty close.

Plus, you shouldn't underestimate the difference between a 6.5 pound Centrino maching and a 9 pound Sager. The difference in weight was really quite nice when I was dragging it around my wireless network.

I know the zd7000 is Quanta.

My concern is the proximity of the battery to the primary HDD and the apparent lack of ventilation in the HDD compartment. Or, does it ventilate through the keyboard? I'll have the 7200 in there and am a little worried about heat issues. Starting with a 2.6 - planning on an upgrade to Prescott - not sure when to expect heat problems.

I have the 7200 as my primary drive and it tends to dissipate heat around the touch pad area. The CPU is located over the rear right hand side well away from the disks so even with a 3.2 GHz CPU sort of under your right pinky your disk won't get burnt .

Somehow I think people are overly worried about heat issues in the 8890. Remember that previous 88xx versions had smaller fans and different layouts. Clevo would have maxed out the unit and designed the cooling to take care of max heat loads. A fairly standard thing to do in industrial design. People are not going to buy their products if they fall over all the time from heat exhaustion.

Upgrading to Prescott's would worry me more than maxing out disks or battery recharging. I would need to see the heat specs on a Prescott vs the existing CPU before I rip out its heart.

Must be that TRANSMETA reference got me all on the wrong (very WRONG) track! Sorry, DM I will not game on a plane,
I will not game on a trane.
I will not game with a fox,
I will not game in a box!
I will not game at a lan,
I will not game without a fan!

I tell you Sam-I-am, I do not like games and ram!
(ok, that last part was a stretch) Unless your timing is perfect...

-myrkat, adding nothing at all to this thread.

Yeah, no yelling here (well, only if people stop calling me Devine, instead of Divine

Yea, ignoramus...thats MY line....hehe
Me, no, i would not go with an HP. Sorry. So say. ( I guess im ignorant for saying this too...but dont get me started....)
BUUUUUT....the idea of getting gaming for 4+ hours in my opinion is seer bliss without a cord. The subject here is the power. But, ill wait and see what becomes of the centrinos. I do know they run a friggin half life, but can they actually push these high end games without any forms of lag...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why did Sager let HP beat them to the punch?

Yes, i know you can do more with a laptop than just game. But, if you dont want a laptop to game (or 3d model on), then what IS the purpose of shelling out big bucks for those machines? You dont need a 9600 to word, excel, etc. You dont need it for email, presentations, or even DVDs. The 9600 is a gaming chip, thus it is logical that you would put it in a gaming machine, no? If that is true, why use a centrino, since those are not gaming machines. I understand it may be ok for games right now, but give a few months, and its worthless.

I also dont agree that the current bottlenecks are GPU based. With the improvements in AI, physics engines, and sounds, more and more work is falling onto the CPU, and surrounding bus. And generally, the centrino is not a system you want to overload (thanks the the much slower bus and RAM).

Agreed. My battery is right on top of my primary HDD, and the few times I've gamed on batteries (and had to do a swap in about 45 minutes), my battery is HOTTTTTTTTTT and my poor little HDD right under it (when it's upside down) is HOTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!! I havn't had a failure, but definitely pushing the envelope. I do like my Bytecc NC-500, laptop powered, for additional breathing room underneath as well as added cooling.

Well I wasnt aware I was being sarcastic but hey you call em as you see em. My response to you saying you expected intelligent comment is ... what did you expect when you basically post a topic which says in not so many words. "Why does Sager suck - look at what they dont have"


To the best of my knowlege Up until the 3750 Sager didnt even have a PM machine. I say once again - if you like the new HP - go buy it - do not come onto a Sager supporters sight and start bitching about how Sager doesnt have the product you want.

Sory if this sounds short but I call em as I see em as well.

Centrinos aren't more expensive. A nice HP/Compaq or Dell can be had for around $2200 with a Cent 1.7. The only problem is that those equipped with the Radeon 9600 Mobile are running around $2800. That will change in a few months or less.

If I wasn't so impatient, then I'd have rather had a Cent 1.7/Radeon 9600 and the new 15.4 inch screen ... but alas, I must have my rig NOW!

In fact, I missed UPS today. My 5680 is sitting at their delivery center waiting for me to pick it up after work !!!

The Pentium M is a good CPU clock for clock its superior to the Pentium4 HT in Every way except price. Besides companies like Dell would still prefer the whole mobile power thing over desktop replacement and a PentiumM 1.7ghz will trounce a Pentium4 2.8GhzHT in gaming anyday

Hmm superior? and wheres the HT on a Pentium M? also dont post crazy statements like a Pentium M trouncing a pentium4 2.8 HT without some benchmarks to prove it... go Ahead and post them... Im calling you out on that 1....