NotebookForums.com › Forums › Notebook Manufacturers › Apple Forums › Apple Notebooks › Recommending a 12" iBook... any concerns?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Recommending a 12" iBook... any concerns?

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
Hi everyone,

I'm probably going to recommend getting a 12" iBook (~5lbs, right?) to a friend who told me that she's going to get a laptop. She's a music major and she doesn't do any gaming, and she probably just wants it for stuff like watching DVD's, Internet/e-mail/IM'ing, and wordprocessing. I asked her if weight and battery life were important to her, and she said yes, so that's why I thought about a thin-and-light (or close enough) notebook solution.

Here are some of my questions and thoughts/concerns. (Oh my goodness, I didn't think I'd type so much; please feel free to just quote and answer whatever points you feel like answering)

- Also, if I were to get 3rd party RAM, I understand that Apple has strict timing requirements for their notebook RAM (iBooks run PC2100), so would I have to get fairly expensive / fast timings PC2100 SO-DIMM RAM (normal SO-DIMM or micro?), certified Mac-compatible PC2100 RAM, or would getting PC3200 SO-DIMM RAM and running it at PC2100 speeds guarantee that it should have much faster timings than originally rated for @ PC 3200?

*whew* Ok, thanks for your time and attention. If you have other tips for someone transitioning from a Windows environment to Mac OS X (like, here's how you'd have to make adjustments if you're an MSN Messenger user; or if you have any thing to say about how well Appleworks or NeoOffice/J work in general or with MS Word), then please feel free to share your advice.

(These questions have pretty much been answered satisfactorily)

- I'm not sure if she's got a lot of experience with Mac's (either zero experience or probably some experience with them using specialized musical applications at school), but I imagine that the switch from Windows 2000/XP is pretty easy to make to Mac OS X and all the host of applications that come with it (Safari, Appleworks w/ the iBook, etc.)?

- I've read that the DVD playback quality on the Mac OS X isn't quite as high as it can be for the PC? As stated in the link below, Panther's and Tiger's de-interlacers and scalers "are absolutely horrible and unacceptable by today's standards". Have you guys heard anything similar? Any thoughts and experiences?
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2404&p=14


- Would a 1.2GHz G4 with 256MB of RAM be sufficient for her needs, do you think? I've heard that Mac OS X is pretty easy on your system, anyways, but under what conditions would scaling up to 512MB of RAM be beneficial or necessary? And if she were going to do some work in Garageband or something more sophisticated, like Logic Express 7 (http://www.apple.com/logicexpress/), would that tax the 1.2GHz G4 or 256MB of RAM?

- the 12" iBook is pretty much a thin-and-light class notebook @ 5lbs and up to 5 hours of battery life, right? Since we can get it for $1199 CDN base with a $225 CDN mail-in-rebate for a 4GB iPod mini or higher as university students, I'm guessing that there isn't any PC product in the same class of portability and reliability for anywhere near the same price? (I think this free iPod mini deal is insane)

- If 512MB of RAM would be beneficial even in day-to-day Tiger operation, then would you recommend installing a stick of SO-DIMM RAM myself (for cheaper than getting it from Apple)? From what I've read of the warranty agreement, they won't cover you only if your iBook is messed up BECAUSE of something you did, but if something else goes wrong with your iBook, your self-installed non-Apple approved RAM won't be an issue with them?
post #2 of 9
Heh... I didn't see this thread because the other one was on top.

My cousin's girlfriend was in a similar situation to your friend. She knew absolutely nothing about macs except that her school used them. So she bought a 12" iBook for school. Long story short, she absolutely loves it. She had no problems picking up on OSX and macs in general, not that she was advanced with XP to begin with, but still- the jump was extremely easy for her. The system is great for everything you listed, except Logic Express and Garageband.

I DEFINATELY suggest the 512 ram though, even if she is just going to do basic stuff with it. It is definately worth it, and the price jump from 256 to 512 is not much.

The iPod deal is insane, also, if I am not mistaken, she also gets a free printer (after $100 mail in rebate). Apparentl, you can get pretty much any Epson printer- when I bought my Mac Mini, I got the basic printer for free, but then realized that I could have got any Epson, so I shipped it back and got the Epson PictureMate for $99 after the rebate. Awesome deal.

As for DVD viewing, I honestly didn't notice a differnce at first. I will say that I usually do not notice these things though. I used my Mini as my primary dvd player for a while (since it was hooked up to my tv). However, after switching back to my dvd player for movies, I did realize that there is quite a bit of a difference. But I will say that, in my opinion at least, I have no problems or anything with watching a dvd on the mac. I still think it looks fine, at least to me.

I think the iBook will be perfect for your friend. It really is a fantastic laptop. If she were to really, really use Logic and Garageband a lot though, I would have to suggest the powerbook. But for anything else, I definately say go iBook.
post #3 of 9
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the detailed advice. About the RAM amount, I guess that unless she really uses the iBook minimally like some sort of e-mail terminal only, then the 512MB of RAM will be noticeably beneficial in general multi-tasking and productivity?

(Finally read your part more carefully where you said it's only worth it to get a Powerbook for the speed if she REALLY, REALLY used Garageband/Logic Express a lot. I missed that the first time So you can ignore the following bit, unless you want to discuss theoretical and real-world performance differences)
About the 12" Powerbook, it's about $500 CDN more expensive than the 12" iBook (which is about a 40% increase in price!), and in terms of a pure performance standpoint, you're looking at:
1.5GHz G4 running w/ PC2700 memory vs. the 12" iBook's 1.2GHz G4 w/ PC2100 memory

Would that processor/memory speed difference make that much of a difference with something like Logic Express or any intensive app? With the pure GHz difference being 25% faster than the 1.2GHz G4 (ignoring the faster memory), I don't see how that would be a big factor in application performance. Not to mention that you'd probably see only a portion of the theoretical ~25% boost in real application performance. I was always wondering about this (because the Powerbook is SO much more expensive).


Quote:
Originally Posted by kwick7
The iPod deal is insane, also, if I am not mistaken, she also gets a free printer (after $100 mail in rebate). Apparentl, you can get pretty much any Epson printer- when I bought my Mac Mini, I got the basic printer for free, but then realized that I could have got any Epson, so I shipped it back and got the Epson PictureMate for $99 after the rebate. Awesome deal.
We're Canadians, so I'm pretty sure we don't get that deal. We just get a $225CDN rebate iPod deal and $40 off .Mac
post #4 of 9
just in case u missed it, at least in the US, the rebate is generic and is $179 off of an ipod purchase. so, pick your ipod! a free ipod mini is insane, but so is $179 off an edu priced $269 US iPod!

Quote:
the 12" iBook is pretty much a thin-and-light class notebook @ 5lbs and up to 5 hours of battery life, right? Since we can get it for $1199 CDN base with a $225 CDN mail-in-rebate for a 4GB iPod mini or higher as university students, I'm guessing that there isn't any PC product in the same class of portability and reliability for anywhere near the same price? (I think this free iPod mini deal is insane)
battery life: u should get 3.25-5 hours depending on use. i get around 4+ usually w/ casual surfing, email, and writing.

deal: i'd agree that it's one of the best deals around for a 12" machine, as is. with an ipod rebate on top of academic pricing for both it is indeed and insane deal.

Quote:
If 512MB of RAM would be beneficial even in day-to-day Tiger operation, then would you recommend installing a stick of SO-DIMM RAM myself (for cheaper than getting it from Apple)? From what I've read of the warranty agreement, they won't cover you only if your iBook is messed up BECAUSE of something you did, but if something else goes wrong with your iBook, your self-installed non-Apple approved RAM won't be an issue with them?
go for 512MB total for day to day use. if you're doing anything relatively intensive go for 768 or 1.25GB (512MB or 1GB sticks).

Quote:
Also, if I were to get 3rd party RAM, I understand that Apple has strict timing requirements for their notebook RAM (iBooks run PC2100), so would I have to get fairly expensive / fast timings PC2100 SO-DIMM RAM (normal SO-DIMM or micro?), certified Mac-compatible PC2100 RAM, or would getting PC3200 SO-DIMM RAM and running it at PC2100 speeds guarantee that it should have much faster timings than originally rated for @ PC 3200?
i think this was answered in another post. 3200 may work in your iBook but it will be @ 2100 speed. the logic board will simply run it on the slower bus and the latency required to be in sync w/ the on board memory.

Quote:
Would that processor/memory speed difference make that much of a difference with something like Logic Express or any intensive app? With the pure GHz difference being 25% faster than the 1.2GHz G4 (ignoring the faster memory), I don't see how that would be a big factor in application performance. Not to mention that you'd probably see only a portion of the theoretical ~25% boost in real application performance. I was always wondering about this (because the Powerbook is SO much more expensive).
processor and memory speed in itself isn't that big a deal. it's the reason why i got my iBook when i did, given that there was only 133mhz difference at the time. 300mhz however is a larger gap, and particularly w/ the 5400rpm drives in the PB, is not to be ignored. for something intensive like audio or video work i'd recommend the PB, more due to the drive speed than the CPU however. also, the iBook doesn't have an audio line-in for said audio work (one of the simple and frustrating over sights on the iBooks. many think it was a deliberate move by apple to help differntiate the 12" PB from the iB). u could pick up a USB line-in for the iBook, however the PBs come w/ a line-in.
post #5 of 9
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by triadone
just in case u missed it, at least in the US, the rebate is generic and is $179 off of an ipod purchase. so, pick your ipod! a free ipod mini is insane, but so is $179 off an edu priced $269 US iPod!
Yeah, thanks, triadone. Here in Canada for university students, it's also $225 CDN off any iPod mini 4GB or higher, so we can get more expensive models, too.

Quote:
i think this was answered in another post. 3200 may work in your iBook but it will be @ 2100 speed. the logic board will simply run it on the slower bus and the latency required to be in sync w/ the on board memory.
I actually knew that, but I was just wondering whether getting PC2700 or PC3200 memory would mean that they can run at even faster timings at lower frequencies (i.e. PC2100). In other words, should I just get the fastest frequency SODIMM RAM if they're the same price (or close)?

Quote:
also, the iBook doesn't have an audio line-in for said audio work (one of the simple and frustrating over sights on the iBooks. many think it was a deliberate move by apple to help differntiate the 12" PB from the iB). u could pick up a USB line-in for the iBook, however the PBs come w/ a line-in.
I need to talk with my friend about this, but I think that if she just wants to do some casual recording, I'll recommend the micFlex USB microphone (which is a pretty high quality USB microphone for around $50-60 CDN). I guess Logitech has a cheaper ~$30-40 CDN standalone USB mic, too. Anyone know how good or not-so-good the built-in mic on the iBook is? Would it be ok for very casual recording of voice and guitar?

Oh, and can someone plz tell me if MSN for Mac displays the MSN pics of the person you're having a conversation with? And in general, would someone using a basic iBook ever find that they should have gotten a PC notebook for any reason? (I'm pretty sure my friend won't be buying VirtualPC)
post #6 of 9
Quote:
I actually knew that, but I was just wondering whether getting PC2700 or PC3200 memory would mean that they can run at even faster timings at lower frequencies (i.e. PC2100). In other words, should I just get the fastest frequency SODIMM RAM if they're the same price (or close)?
that's what i was getting re: latency. the motherboard will run it @ the 133mhz/266ddr spec and will set the latencies to whatever the built in memory runs at (likely at CAS 2.5 or 3) in order for everything to jive the way it needs to.


Quote:
Oh, and can someone plz tell me if MSN for Mac displays the MSN pics of the person you're having a conversation with? And in general, would someone using a basic iBook ever find that they should have gotten a PC notebook for any reason? (I'm pretty sure my friend won't be buying VirtualPC)
no, MSN does not currently display pics of the person u r chatting w/. it's said to be an option in the coming upgrade. when?-i don't know.

basic ibook w/ basic use? no. it obviously comes w/ an email client, web browser, media player, word processing software (appleworks) which can save to and read Word documents, and other basic amenities. needless to say the iLife suite steps things up a notch and the basic user can learn quite quickly to toy w/ all sorts of media.

hope this helps.
post #7 of 9
Thread Starter 
Thanks. Yah, that helps.

About the RAM, though, I guess I'm wondering if non-Apple approved RAM that's PC3200 or 2700 will have a pretty good chance at meeting Apple's timing requirements at PC2100 because it was built to run at higher bus speeds.
post #8 of 9
it should. downclocking is less of an issue than upclocking, and often times higher spec'd RAM can essentially be "slower" RAM w/ higher latencies. in other words, the RAM will be spec'd for a higher frequency, but will require higher latencies to be stable. thus, the manufacturer has to do very little to sell the "faster" RAM for a higher price. the only issue i've bumped into w/ re: to a certain spec of RAM was w/ the old PC-100/133 SDRAM, where for the most part u could buy a new stick for an old system and not worry about a thing. then some sticks came out w/ high density modules and u'd have to check whether your old system could handle it or not.

u may have mentioned this, but the only reason u'd want to consider 3200 RAM is really price imo. if it's cheaper than the other stuff, make sure to buy it from a vendor w/ a solid and hassle free return policy. otherwise if it's the same price or a few pennies more, see if u can go w/ a 2700 stick that's been reviewed to work w/ the iBooks.
post #9 of 9
Thread Starter 
Okees, thanks. Yeah, if I were to recommend getting extra RAM for my friend, I'd probably bring her to a specialty PC store and see if they will let us try various sticks of RAM to see what will work successfully before puchasing the RAM.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Apple Notebooks
NotebookForums.com › Forums › Notebook Manufacturers › Apple Forums › Apple Notebooks › Recommending a 12" iBook... any concerns?