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Software utility for Sagers! - Page 12

post #221 of 349
4/23/04 at 12:56am
no post in a few days by henrik. This is how the old "no henrik" problem started. I hope he is ok.
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post #222 of 349
4/23/04 at 2:33am
I am sure he is just hard at work on that killer app. plus he did give some warning last time
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post #223 of 349
4/23/04 at 3:06am
he's alive and working on it way hard be patient!
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post #224 of 349
4/23/04 at 9:59pm
Thread Starter 
yeah, I'm ok, still working on it
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post #225 of 349
4/23/04 at 10:27pm
ok, i am not rushing you,,,,just making sure ur ok
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post #226 of 349
4/23/04 at 11:22pm
I don't think that HENRIK sleeps. I have seen posts at "all hours" .... considering the time differences (+6/7 hours from CDT) his last post was at about 2/3AM (his time). I hope that many of you contribute for his efforts.
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post #227 of 349
4/24/04 at 3:21pm
[edit] Removed cross post
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post #228 of 349
4/24/04 at 3:29pm
Thread Starter 
Since your problem is in no way associated with my application, please dont make posts like this in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soma720
My fan just quit working on my 8886!!! I cannot turn the computer on for more than a min. Can someone please help me open teh computer to where I can get to the fans?
Here is a cross refference
http://notebookforums.com/showthread...117#post223117
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post #229 of 349
4/24/04 at 4:31pm
That's correct. Sorry about that Henrik. The problem is totally unrelated to your software utilities, which are great. I just thought since people here are interested in fans I might beable to find an answer. My mistake. No harm intended. Infact I solved my problem anyway (by removing the heatsink and using twezzers).


Tusen tack henrik för att du gör riktig bra software för alla.
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post #230 of 349
4/25/04 at 7:11pm
Thread Starter 
Here comes my new findings. If you have the service manual for the 5680, then you can do a search for MAX1617, this is the temperature sensor. In the service manual there are two of them, one for the cpu and one for the gpu. I can also find the code stubs in the bios that reads the gpu sensor, but they are never called. Unfortunately it seems like they cut this sensor from the reference design, and left it out in the final design. Probably due to cost reasons. Here is a link to information about the sensor, and here is its price, $4.13 a piece.
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post #231 of 349
4/25/04 at 7:46pm
Ohh no
That means - no chance.
Who should build that sensor in my notebook ?
It´s a pity. Just this little thing, 4$. Why do they save in these points ?
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post #232 of 349
4/25/04 at 8:47pm
same findings for the 8890 or was their never anything like that in the first place?
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post #233 of 349
4/25/04 at 9:29pm
Thread Starter 
The service manual for the 8890 didnt have any sensor for the gpu in the first place, and there is no traces in the bios for it either. But I'm sure that they did in fact monitor the gpu temp on the 5680 during the design phase and developing the keyboard bios for it. The good part is that I can monitor both cpu internal and external (heatsink or whereever the sensor is physically located) temperature for both 5680 and 8890. This is btw tested and confirmed.
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post #234 of 349
4/26/04 at 8:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik
The service manual for the 8890 didnt have any sensor for the gpu in the first place, and there is no traces in the bios for it either. But I'm sure that they did in fact monitor the gpu temp on the 5680 during the design phase and developing the keyboard bios for it. The good part is that I can monitor both cpu internal and external (heatsink or whereever the sensor is physically located) temperature for both 5680 and 8890. This is btw tested and confirmed.
Hmm, it's bad that Clevo leaved out the GPU sensors. Henrik do you maybe know if the ATI graphics cards do have themselves some hidden possibilities here, which can be reused instead? However, it would be fine to have some app which would allow to measure the CPU temps and which also would allow to some degree to vary the activation of the fans and to control their speed inside some parameter ranges.

Let's discuss some technical issues and ask some questions of maybe common interest:

How often can you poll the temps (e.g. how frequent without blocking other tasks) and what frequency makes sense to have setup here, if the polling frequency wouldn't be user customizable inside some range?

What would be some reasonable setups for processing the fans according to the measured temperatures? It would be fine if we all together could find out some foolprove way for setup ranges here, so people will be on the sure side not to overheat their CPU. What I mean is to find out some general common well working setup profiles for the fan controlling related to the CPU heat measurements.

Finally I have another idea, which is more of interest for third party application programmers and their point of view. Henrik where you are already on the troubles of determining the deep hidden BIOS internals like Sherlok Holmes and later into the programming issues...would you be able to build up some common reusable library/dll, which allows to access/reuse some of your coded findings for other apps? - What I had in mind here is some DLL which offers methods/function calls which allow to let's say...

- ...identify and give back the exact Sager/Clevo model type
- ...give back the read out temperature in °C/F for the model type
- ...determine if actually running on battery or AC
- ...read out the battery status, it's remaining percentage
- ...allows to turn on/off the email LED
- ...increase/decrease screen brightness...
- ...and so on depending on what you can do inside your spare free time on this project...

I'am not sure if it would be wise for such an DLL to allow to access the fans too here, since it may conflict with the preset behaviours, if not used in an secure and careful manner. - But some of the other above mentioned functions would be nice to have, since they could be reused for other apps like for example: own Email, webblog/RSS news, or LAN/WLAN connection notification programs and so on...


Regards

krobotkin
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post #235 of 349
4/26/04 at 9:26pm
good ideas, i am not sure if henrik is still working on these programs. From what I gathered the app we had hoped to get is not possible using the sager bios, but as was said, is it possible with ati card settings? Any new thoughts on expansion programs, or is the fan program the end of the line for now?
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post #236 of 349
4/26/04 at 10:14pm
Thread Starter 
I'm still working on it, these kind of programs isnt anything you make in a snap. Instead of giving you the dll I might as well implement the functionality in an exe file, correct? I also have other hobby projects going, that I actually can use myself. I am now working on a utility to dynamically change the FSB on my AMD 2600+ desktop.
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post #237 of 349
4/26/04 at 11:22pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by krobotkin
Hmm, it's bad that Clevo leaved out the GPU sensors. Henrik do you maybe know if the ATI graphics cards do have themselves some hidden possibilities here, which can be reused instead?
The used method to monitor the temperature on IC's like P4 and M10 is by use of an on-die thermistor. Two pins on the IC package is connected to this thermistor. In order to actually read the temperature there have to be a sensor connected to the pins. The sensor is essentially nothing else than an A/D converter with an SMBus interface. On many desktops the SMBus of the southbridge is used, but in the clevo notebooks its connected to the SMBus of the Hitachi H8 Keyboard processor. So in other words, if there is no sensor, then there is no way to read the temp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krobotkin
However, it would be fine to have some app which would allow to measure the CPU temps and which also would allow to some degree to vary the activation of the fans and to control their speed inside some parameter ranges.
This is possible, and that is what I'm working on, and also adjusting the FSB to dynamically under/overclock the cpu safely. This would get longer battery time and safe overclocking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krobotkin
How often can you poll the temps (e.g. how frequent without blocking other tasks) and what frequency makes sense to have setup here, if the polling frequency wouldn't be user customizable inside some range?
Its possible to poll it very frequently, the limiting factor is the speed of the SMBus. A poll every second would be ok for safe overclocking I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krobotkin
What would be some reasonable setups for processing the fans according to the measured temperatures? It would be fine if we all together could find out some foolprove way for setup ranges here, so people will be on the sure side not to overheat their CPU. What I mean is to find out some general common well working setup profiles for the fan controlling related to the CPU heat measurements.
I aim for making it possible for you to individually configure trip points where the fan changes speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krobotkin
Finally I have another idea, which is more of interest for third party application programmers and their point of view. Henrik where you are already on the troubles of determining the deep hidden BIOS internals like Sherlok Holmes and later into the programming issues...would you be able to build up some common reusable library/dll, which allows to access/reuse some of your coded findings for other apps? - What I had in mind here is some DLL which offers methods/function calls which allow to let's say...
Its possible that I will provide this DLL later on. However, builing a frontend is about 1% of the work in the finished application, the research is the hard part, so I guess the application comes first, and then the DLL. All provided I find the time and interest to have it finished. I tend to lose interest when I have found out how to do the impossible. In this case, I dont have a computer to try it out myself, even though many have been helpful enough to test it on their computers. Its also hard for me to justify all time spent on hobby projects. If you really want to have it finished, please use the paypal link provided earlier in this thread. Maybe I will make you all happy some day, you just have to have some patience
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post #238 of 349
4/28/04 at 8:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik
...
...
Its possible that I will provide this DLL later on. However, builing a frontend is about 1% of the work in the finished application, the research is the hard part, so I guess the application comes first, and then the DLL. All provided I find the time and interest to have it finished. I tend to lose interest when I have found out how to do the impossible. In this case, I dont have a computer to try it out myself, even though many have been helpful enough to test it on their computers. Its also hard for me to justify all time spent on hobby projects. If you really want to have it finished, please use the paypal link provided earlier in this thread. Maybe I will make you all happy some day, you just have to have some patience
Sounds good Henrik and I'am looking forward for some outstanding solution here for the future. - Related to the ...loosing interest..., I usually in the pasts also tended to do so when I finally found out some proved good working solution and finished things accordingly so that all involved parties were finally happy. But from my experiences I also know, that the demands are always growing if your end-user base grows too. So nowadays, I'am more critical here and when I review past made projects and solutions, I often see and find thinks there, which could have been made somehow better in the pasts. - In other words, the own demands are growing too over the time into the direction of perfectionism and customer satisfaction.

If you need some programming help for the project, related to the app design and UI implementation etc. etc. let us know.

Related to financial support, so far I actually only have a domestic bank card for local money transfers, but when I get a euro/master card I will give you some credit for the project in order to keep it rolling.

BTW, before I forget to ask, did you discovered how to access the different Sager/Clevo Notebook LEDs via I/O port adresses or the like, for turning them on, off or toggling? Do all the Clevos use one and the same scheme adresses here or are there differences? - If yes, then you maybe can send me an PM with the addressing of the Email LED so I can reuse it for some personal LAN traffic and email notification app I'am going to develop.

Greets

krobotkin
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post #239 of 349
4/30/04 at 12:29am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
BTW, before I forget to ask, did you discovered how to access the different Sager/Clevo Notebook LEDs via I/O port adresses or the like, for turning them on, off or toggling? Do all the Clevos use one and the same scheme adresses here or are there differences? - If yes, then you maybe can send me an PM with the addressing of the Email LED so I can reuse it for some personal LAN traffic and email notification app I'am going to develop.
I will look into it as soon as possible, I think it would work. Otherwise I recommend you to use the Scroll lock LED for signalling, that way you get portable code amongst all PC compatibles and that LED is almost never used for something anyway. Which programming language do you use?
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post #240 of 349
4/30/04 at 11:29am
Hi Henrik,

I'm new to these forums. I am in the UK and have a Rock Quaddra DTS Pro (this is based on the Clevo D470V chassis and is therefore very similar - if not the same - as the Sager 4780.

I noticed from one of your posts that you were going to look at the fan control for the 4780 after testing the 8890, and were looking for beta testers. I would be very interested in beta testing for you and feel it may help the UK market.

Hope this is OK with you.

Regards,
Steve Perks
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