Desktops vs. laptops vs. textbooks in highschool - Page 5

Originally Posted by RabenWolf

Wow there buddy, edit out a lot of that, its mostly repeated paragraphs. Though the repeats do prove your point about giving a tech knowhow education by way of example. Read over your post as well, it helps.

Originally Posted by robertg

Generalizations are dumb -- especially ones about high schoolers. As one myself (a junior), I can attest to the observation that the majority of them will not harm the laptops in any way, aside from perhaps downloading random, infected executables from the Internet, but that's nothing that either A) Norton Ghost-like images at the end of each year, or B) Linux can't fix. In my school, we have 12 or so "mobile labs," which, as someone explained before in this thread, are simply carts with laptops, a printer, and a wireless access point on them. We also have a library with 20 or so computers, and several computer labs with 30 or 40 each. The specifications of the computers in these labs vary widely, from older PIIIs with crappy 15" tubes to brand new P4 2.8 HTs with 17" LCDs. In addition, most classrooms have at least two or three computers in them, with some having just a couple for the teacher and for occasional student use, to those having 25 or so, for class assignments and projects. However, none of those classrooms having 25 or so computers has them at the students' desks; they're all off to the sides, for use only when mandated by the ultimate authority -- the teacher.

All classrooms are equipped with a TV and a DVD player, and many classrooms are also outfitted with Smart boards, some having a projector and multimedia system as well.

Just so you finally understand my point, I still don't think we're doing enough to teach students about technology, a skill, industry, occupation, and tool that, unless they are planning on moving to the caves of Pakistan, they will utilize for the remainder of their lives. Sure, we're using technology as a tool to teach, but what benefits does this introduce for those whom it is supposedly "teaching?" If you're going to use a tool, why not use it to the fullest extent; that is, why doesn't the school board equip its pupils with the very same technology that it is using to teach them? Expense? Hah -- you should see what our county spends its money on. By providing even half of its 25 high schools' students with $750 laptops (keep in mind that this is not an annually recurring expense, but there will obviously be some depreciation every year), it would spend about $24.4 million dollars -- a lot, yes; there's no question about this. However, think of the many ways in which the county could cut its costs: it could "sell out" to corporations, promising to place ads all over the darned place for any company willing to shell out some bucks; it could ask encouraging (and suitably equipped, financially) parents to help offset the cost of their child(ren)'s laptop in exchange for a lifetime of their kidsGeneralizations are dumb -- especially ones about high schoolers. As one myself (a junior), I can attest to the observation that the majority of them will not harm the laptops in any way, aside from perhaps downloading random, infected executables from the Internet, but that's nothing that either A) Norton Ghost-like images at the end of each year, or B) Linux can't fix. In my school, we have 12 or so "mobile labs," which, as someone explained before in this thread, are simply carts with laptops, a printer, and a wireless access point on them. We also have a library with 20 or so computers, and several computer labs with 30 or 40 each. The specifications of the computers in these labs vary widely, from older PIIIs with crappy 15" tubes to brand new P4 2.8 HTs with 17" LCDs. In addition, most classrooms have at least two or three computers in them, with some having just a couple for the teacher and for occasional student use, to those having 25 or so, for class assignments and projects. However, none of those classrooms having 25 or so computers have them at the students' desks; they're all off to the sides, for use only when mandated by the ultimate authority -- the teacher.

All classrooms are equipped with a TV and a DVD player, and many classrooms are also outfitted with Smart boards, some having a projector and multimedia system as well.

So you finally understand my point, I still don't think we're doing enough to teach students about technology, a skill, industry, occupation, and tool that, unless they are planning on moving to the caves of Pakistan, they will utilize for the remainder of their lives. Sure, we're using technology as a tool to teach, but what benefits does this introduce for those whom it is supposedly "teaching?" If you're going to use a tool, why not use it to the fullest extent; that is, why doesn't the school board equip its pupils with the very same technology that it is using to teach them? Expense? Hah -- you should see what our county spends its money on. By providing even half of its 25 high schools' students with $750 laptops (keep in mind that this is not an annually recurring expense, but there will obviously be some depreciation every year), it would spend about $24.4 million dollars -- a lot, yes; there's no question about this. However, think of the many ways in which the county could cut its costs: it could "sell out" to corporations, promising to place ads all over the darned place for any company willing to shell out some bucks; it could ask encouraging (and suitably equipped, financially) parents to help offset the cost of their child(ren)'s laptop in exchange for a lifetime of their kids' being "ahead of the game"; and, they could stop spending so much damn money on other stupid programs, at least in my county, the second richest in the nation.

Regarding the other concerns in giving high school students laptops, I think using a great open-source operating system like some variant (distribution) of Linux would really help reduce, if not eliminate most of, these problems. However, there is one concern with which I do agree: in math class, it is pretty inevitable that you're going to need a pen and pencil, and I think it will be like that for a long time. Pen and pencil just make much more sense and are more practical than using even a tablet PC, which can really be a pain.

Another thing I sort of agree with is that reading textbooks on the screen, even as beautifully-rendered PDF files, is absolutely not as A) conducive to learning, B) comfortable, and C) conducive to concentration as is reading from a hard textbook. As someone else here mentioned, reading content from the screen is much more optically stressful than is reading from a page in a book. However, even if a few textbooks were kept, like for in-class copies, it wouldn't be the end of the world. Achieving a paperless educational environment just to say you've achieved it is simply foolish. Technology and its achievements are tools and methods, not ego-strokers. The goal would be relatively simple: to familiarize students with and educate them on technology that they will undoubtedly be using for the rest of their lives. By lending them laptops and enforcing certain standards around which classroom and assignment policies will loosely revolve, students will be forced to learn the technology -- and sometimes that's the best way.

I can't guarantee that every laptop will be in perfect condition at the end of each year; I'd be kidding myself. However, I think some of you are sorely misjudging the majority of teenagers and high schoolers; don't draw these generalizations from your own experiences in the 60s, 70s, and 80s smoking weed and doing crack and LSD. Things have changed, and at least around here, even if they do some of the same things you all did at our age, high schoolers are much more ambitious and anxious to succeed. Obviously, people's attitudes will depend on where you live and your culture, but for the most part, the residents of my area stress education and a good job a heck of a lot (while I don't agree with the latter part). High schoolers aren't all, mostly, half, or even a considerable fraction of them, brainless machines that go around vandalizing public property for absolutely no reason and listening to emo or goth music, bitching about how bad their lives are. People need to start realizing this, and they need to start realizing that, for better or worse, technology has revolutionized our society. But, with revolution, comes change. And change is needed in all facets of society: education, the workplace, at home, and out in venues of entertainment. When one facet is imbalanced, it throws everything out of whack. At this point, I'd say the education facet of society is the one that sticks out like a sore thumb as being way behind the others. Even with all the "Smart" boards and projectors my school system has, many kids still don't understand what a computer is and its basic concepts; my friend referred to the tower just last week as the "hard drive." Needless to say, I was appalled. being "ahead of the game"; they could stop spending so much damn money on other stupid programs, at least in my county, the second richest in the nation.

Regarding the other concerns in giving high school students laptops, I think using a great open-source operating system like some variant (distribution) of Linux would really help reduce, if not eliminate most of, these problems. However, there is one concern with which I do agree: in math class, it is pretty inevitable that you're going to need a pen and pencil, and I think it will be like that for a long time. Pen and pencil just make much more sense and are more practical than using even a tablet PC, which can really be a pain.

Another thing I sort of agree with is that reading textbooks on the screen, even as beautifully-rendered PDF files, is absolutely not as A) conducive to learning, B) comfortable, and C) conducive to concentration as is reading from a hard textbook. As someone else here mentioned, reading content from the screen is much more optically stressful than is reading from a page in a book. However, even if a few textbooks were kept, like for in-class copies, it wouldn't be the end of the world. Achieving a paperless educational environment just to say you've achieved it is simply foolish. Technology and its achievements are tools and methods, not ego-strokers. The goal would be relatively simple: to familiarize students with and educate them on technology that they will undoubtedly be using for the rest of their lives. By lending them laptops and enforcing certain standards around which classroom and assignment policies will loosely revolve, students will be forced to learn the technology -- and sometimes that's the best way.

I can't guarantee that every laptop will be in perfect condition at the end of each year; that would be kidding myself. However, I think some of you are sorely misjudging the majority of teenagers and high schoolers; don't draw these generalizations from your own experiences in the 60s, 70s, and 80s smoking weed and doing crack and LSD. Things have changed, and at least around here, even if they do some of the same things you all did at our age, high schoolers are much more ambitious and anxious to succeed. Obviously, people's attitudes will depend on where you live and your culture, but for the most part, the residents of my area stress education and a good job a heck of a lot (while I don't agree with the latter part). High schoolers aren't, all, mostly, half, or even a considerable fraction of them, brainless machines that go around vandalizing public property for absolutely no reason and listening to emo or goth music, bitching about how bad their lives are. People need to start realizing this, and they need to start realizing that, for better or worse, technology has revolutionized our society. But, with revolution, comes change. And change is needed in all facets of society: education, the workplace, at home, and out in venues of entertainment. When one facet is imbalanced, it throws everything out of whack. At this point, I'd say the education facet of society is the one that sticks out like a sore thumb as being way behind the others. Even with all the "Smart" boards and projectors my school system has, many kids still don't understand what a computer is and its basic concepts; my friend referred to the tower just last week as the "hard drive." Needless to say, I was appalled.

Originally Posted by MiataNB

You win teh prize!
Generalization of HS folks as dumb, ignorant, dumb, retard stupid mofos, stupid, dumb as hell, direspectful, dumb, ugly, is just plain o retarded. I'm not in HS and I'm all of that.

Originally Posted by hypknotics19

i do have to aggre with boogieman..most highschoolers don't give a rats ass about stuff thats not theres. this is coming from experence that i didn't give two shits about the text books and other things. but sense i been out of school sense 04 i take pride of what i handle or use. in my work i deal with multi-million dollers worth of computer equipment that other people trust me not to **** up. these highschoolers are just rebelous to the admin's and teachers, many of them are kids that are gonna grow up to be future imates or somthing