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#1 | |
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Hi everybody!
I was asked to report the serious 'lagging issue' of M3438G/M4438G notebooks and to give an overview of the current development in this case. Here it is. Serious performance problem in FSC Amilo Mx438G series - applications hang in random intervals for <2 seconds. Background All relevant information and links to important threads of this problem can be found at http://home.eplus-online.de/gaetcke/notebook.htm. The website is powered by City Cobra and mainly based on information developed at www.amilo-forum.de. Unfortunately these sites are in German. I do not want to start a discussion about this bug. I just want to give you an overview that you know what is going on. If you want to talk about the lagging issue, do NOT do it here, but here http://www.notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=121602. This thread is a 'newsletter' for all owner of Mx438G. If I need your help concerning this bug, I will open seperate threads for that. Thanks for your understanding. The lagging issue - detection and details What is it? The so called 'lagging issue of the Mx438G' is data jam between hard drives and memory caused by assumedly a bad allocation of IRQs. Mainly the problem appears as a total hang up (freezing) of the whole laptop for 2 seconds or less. The bug is independent on OS, drivers and current BIOS versions (up to 1.10c). Paradoxically the bug seems to be differently strong on Mx438G with the same components. Do I have this bug? The lagging issue is a very fleeting problem. Until now there has no benchmark been found that creates this bug. Windows might run perfect. Even current superior video games might run as expected. All this together makes it really difficult to capture this bug and give precise reports to Fujitsu-Siemens Computers. The try to catch this bug with fraps was unsuccessful. So how can I detect it? There are some small hints for that. Video and mp3 playback can stagnate for short. Applications, which create a large data transfer from/to the hard drives give strange error messages. Video games "lag". Thanks to the user of www.amilo-forum.de who helped to make a list of critical applications in which the lagging issue was observed (obviously). > InstantOn > FIFA06 > Quake 2 > Quake 3 > Call of Duty 2 > Neverwinter Nights > Warcraft 3 - Frozen Throne > Doom III > World of Warcraft > Wolfenstein / Enemy Territory > gta vice city > Counterstrike Source > Commandos 3 > AoE 3 > Panzers 2 > > 3d studio Max 7 > cinema 4d > inventor 8 This list is definetly not complete. But it is also not verified. Even could be, that a user has problems in WoW and not in AoE3 and another user detects problems vice versa. If your notebook is affected by this issue, some of your games may behave like you can see in the video of Warcraft3-Frozen Throne v1.20a http://www-nw.uni-regensburg.de/~.ra...s/DCP_0466.MOV 54MB. There are very obvious hang-ups/lags/freezings at times (minutes:seconds): 1:00 - 1:10 - 1:15 - 1:45 - 1:47 - 1:59 - 2:04 - 2:17 - 2:26 - 2:35 - 2:39 - 2:45 - 2:57 - 3:02 - 3:10 - 3:22 - 4:14 - 4:22 - 4:35 . Or you can see the freezings here in FIFA06 http://www-nw.uni-regensburg.de/~.ra...Fifa06divx.avi 5.5MB. Another example is here in Trackmania Nations http://r5.mnd.fh-wiesbaden.de/stud/e..._brrr_divx.avi 6.8MB. Here is a video that shows the lags during mp3 playback with InstantOn (ignore background noises) http://www.mrblue2003.de/Borkar/DSCN0632.MOV 64.7MB. (link temporarily unavailable) Why do I not have such problems? Why do I have such problems? It is not sure, but it seems that the problem occur boosted on systems with Samsung hard drives, sometimes on systems with Fujitsu hard drives and less on systems with Seagate hard drives. Anyway, the lagging issue is independent on the amount of hard drives and the RAID setting. There is a positive effect on systems with more than 1GB RAM. Another temporary workaround is to install applications on an external USB harddisk drive. Fujitsu-Siemens Computers - what are they doing? An update for this very serious problem is not available yet. Furthermore FSC had many problems reconstructing the lagging issue. There are still many unanswered questions. But however, with the help of City Cobra and many other users of www.amilo-forum.de it was possible to collect so much information about that bug that FSC can work with it. The problem took priority. But no one can say how long it will take to work out a solution. Until this very serious problem is not solved, I can not approve notebooks Mx43xG. Update: There won't be a fix ever! FSC stopped the research and made an official statement that this behaviour is normal! (bullshit!!). Details, see below. Can I do anything? Sure. Write an email to FSC-Support and tell them that you are affected by the lagging issue. BUT DO NOT complain about the problem and you do not have to explain the problem in detail because it is well known. The only thing you have to do is to give them the serial number of the notebook on which this bug occurs. To make it easier for you, you can copy/paste the template given below and send it to technical.support@fujitsu-siemens.com: Code:
serial number: YSNSxxxxxx (6 digits) BIOS version: 1.xx (eg 1.10c, 1.06rc) Video-BIOS version: 5.41.02.39.xx (5.41.02.39.49 or 5.41.02.39.60; rightklick on desktop -> nVidia Display -> Laptop-Display -> GeForceGo 6800) nVidia driver version: xx.xx (rightklick on desktop -> nVidia Display -> Laptop-Display -> GeForceGo 6800) Dear Sir or Madam, I own a FSC Amilo M3438G. I also suffer from the known lagging issue, which is discussed in the forum: http://www.amilo-forum.de/topic,4855.html and described in the forum: http://www.notebookforums.com/showthread.php?p=1482092#post1482092 Please add my e-mail address and my serial number to the corresponding PID. Please strive for a solution quickly. You can find a detailed list of systems with that bug in the thread of Martin Raith aka Borkar. The only purpose of that thread is to help the FSC support detecting that issue. http://www.amilo-forum.de/topic,5254.html Kind Regards xxxxx xxxxx Performance issues, which are independent on the lagging issue described above Smartlink Modem driver - satus: solved Strange noise and freezing while changing the video mode on DVI devices (including internal display) - status: no update will be available in future General performance problem (low fps) with latest drivers (including FSC-79.30/11) - status: solved Annotations I will support you with the latest news as I receive them. Please do not reply to this thread if it is not necessary to keep it clear. Discussions about the lagging issue here http://www.notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=121602
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Kind Regards Borkar ----------------------------------------------- FSC-M3438G: PM-760 2,0Ghz; 2x 512MB DDR2-400 (Samsung); 2x 80GB HD (Samsung); _NEC ND-6650A; WinXP SP2 ----------------------------------------------- Amilo Mx43x - Lagging issue ![]() -> info and status -> FAQs and news (@ www.amilo-forum.com) -> discussions -> petition Last edited by Borkar; 04-08-2006 at 09:44 AM. Reason: update |
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#2 |
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Changelog
12-13-05
Updated template email to FSC support. Added BIOS version, Video-BIOS version and nVidia driver version
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Kind Regards Borkar ----------------------------------------------- FSC-M3438G: PM-760 2,0Ghz; 2x 512MB DDR2-400 (Samsung); 2x 80GB HD (Samsung); _NEC ND-6650A; WinXP SP2 ----------------------------------------------- Amilo Mx43x - Lagging issue ![]() -> info and status -> FAQs and news (@ www.amilo-forum.com) -> discussions -> petition |
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#3 |
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Update
12-15-05
These days the manufacturer runs several tests about this issue. A very(!) uncertain approximation for a solution mentions January 2006.
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Kind Regards Borkar ----------------------------------------------- FSC-M3438G: PM-760 2,0Ghz; 2x 512MB DDR2-400 (Samsung); 2x 80GB HD (Samsung); _NEC ND-6650A; WinXP SP2 ----------------------------------------------- Amilo Mx43x - Lagging issue ![]() -> info and status -> FAQs and news (@ www.amilo-forum.com) -> discussions -> petition |
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#4 |
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Update
12-17-05
I just got positive feedback of FSC. They verified the approximation. They are sure that a bugfix will be released during January.
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Kind Regards Borkar ----------------------------------------------- FSC-M3438G: PM-760 2,0Ghz; 2x 512MB DDR2-400 (Samsung); 2x 80GB HD (Samsung); _NEC ND-6650A; WinXP SP2 ----------------------------------------------- Amilo Mx43x - Lagging issue ![]() -> info and status -> FAQs and news (@ www.amilo-forum.com) -> discussions -> petition |
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#5 | |
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Status: waiting ...
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Romania
Posts: 11
Credits: -147
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Quote:
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Fujitsu-Siemens M3438G: PM 760 (2 Ghz, UV'd to 0,700-1,036 VID), 17" WXGA+, GeForce Go 6800 (256 MB), 1*100 GB HDD, 1 GB RAM |
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#6 |
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Obscuru, comments will be given here http://www.notebookforums.com/showth...=121602&page=3
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Kind Regards Borkar ----------------------------------------------- FSC-M3438G: PM-760 2,0Ghz; 2x 512MB DDR2-400 (Samsung); 2x 80GB HD (Samsung); _NEC ND-6650A; WinXP SP2 ----------------------------------------------- Amilo Mx43x - Lagging issue ![]() -> info and status -> FAQs and news (@ www.amilo-forum.com) -> discussions -> petition Last edited by Borkar; 01-08-2006 at 05:22 AM. |
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#7 |
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Changelog
01-03-06
Added "What else do I have to know?" (Performance problems with smartlink modem driver version 4.20.01).
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Kind Regards Borkar ----------------------------------------------- FSC-M3438G: PM-760 2,0Ghz; 2x 512MB DDR2-400 (Samsung); 2x 80GB HD (Samsung); _NEC ND-6650A; WinXP SP2 ----------------------------------------------- Amilo Mx43x - Lagging issue ![]() -> info and status -> FAQs and news (@ www.amilo-forum.com) -> discussions -> petition |
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#8 |
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Changelog
01-05-06
Removed "What else do I have to know?" (Performance problems with smartlink modem driver version 4.20.01) and added "Performance issues, which are independent on the lagging issue described above" instead. Added "General performance problem (low fps) with latest drivers (including FSC-79.30/11)" (Video BIOS Update to version 5.41.02.39.60). Added new video (FIFA06). Some layout changes.
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Kind Regards Borkar ----------------------------------------------- FSC-M3438G: PM-760 2,0Ghz; 2x 512MB DDR2-400 (Samsung); 2x 80GB HD (Samsung); _NEC ND-6650A; WinXP SP2 ----------------------------------------------- Amilo Mx43x - Lagging issue ![]() -> info and status -> FAQs and news (@ www.amilo-forum.com) -> discussions -> petition |
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#9 |
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Update
01-10-06
Bad news about the lagging issue. The responsible manufacturer of the motherboard verified that their board does produce this bug! Therefore the bug appears in all systems with that mainboard. (Mx437G, M1439G, Mx438G and of course all 'alienware' editions of that books). The malfunction has not been found yet! It is also not improbable that the lags are a result of a hardware failure. But it can still be that the bug can be fixed by a BIOS update. Albeit it seems that a bugfix won't be available in January.
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Kind Regards Borkar ----------------------------------------------- FSC-M3438G: PM-760 2,0Ghz; 2x 512MB DDR2-400 (Samsung); 2x 80GB HD (Samsung); _NEC ND-6650A; WinXP SP2 ----------------------------------------------- Amilo Mx43x - Lagging issue ![]() -> info and status -> FAQs and news (@ www.amilo-forum.com) -> discussions -> petition Last edited by Borkar; 01-10-2006 at 07:32 AM. |
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#10 |
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Update
01-20-06
Finally there exists a benchmark that is able to reveal consequences of the lagging issue: AccessBench ------------- Download here: AccessBench program and source file Program DLL file (if necessary) ------------- In good environment and with proper conditions you get results similar to the given pictures below: Here you can clearly see the access time delay peaks (in milliseconds), which cause freezes in games when loading new data (sound, graphics) or when paging. Discussions about AccessBench can be done here: http://www.notebookforums.com/showth...121602&page=10 (Do not post in this newsthread! Thanks.) ---------------------- Source: www.amilo-forum.de (German forums). Special thanks to Cosi!
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Kind Regards Borkar ----------------------------------------------- FSC-M3438G: PM-760 2,0Ghz; 2x 512MB DDR2-400 (Samsung); 2x 80GB HD (Samsung); _NEC ND-6650A; WinXP SP2 ----------------------------------------------- Amilo Mx43x - Lagging issue ![]() -> info and status -> FAQs and news (@ www.amilo-forum.com) -> discussions -> petition Last edited by Borkar; 01-31-2006 at 04:34 AM. |
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#11 |
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Update
From now on discussions will be done here http://support.fujitsu-siemens.de/fo...?p=34219#34219
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Kind Regards Borkar ----------------------------------------------- FSC-M3438G: PM-760 2,0Ghz; 2x 512MB DDR2-400 (Samsung); 2x 80GB HD (Samsung); _NEC ND-6650A; WinXP SP2 ----------------------------------------------- Amilo Mx43x - Lagging issue ![]() -> info and status -> FAQs and news (@ www.amilo-forum.com) -> discussions -> petition |
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#12 |
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annotation
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Kind Regards Borkar ----------------------------------------------- FSC-M3438G: PM-760 2,0Ghz; 2x 512MB DDR2-400 (Samsung); 2x 80GB HD (Samsung); _NEC ND-6650A; WinXP SP2 ----------------------------------------------- Amilo Mx43x - Lagging issue ![]() -> info and status -> FAQs and news (@ www.amilo-forum.com) -> discussions -> petition |
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#13 |
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Update
02-10-06
Added another sample video - Trackmania Nations.
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Kind Regards Borkar ----------------------------------------------- FSC-M3438G: PM-760 2,0Ghz; 2x 512MB DDR2-400 (Samsung); 2x 80GB HD (Samsung); _NEC ND-6650A; WinXP SP2 ----------------------------------------------- Amilo Mx43x - Lagging issue ![]() -> info and status -> FAQs and news (@ www.amilo-forum.com) -> discussions -> petition |
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#14 |
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Changelog
02-23-06
Added video that shows lags during mp3 playback in InstantOn
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Kind Regards Borkar ----------------------------------------------- FSC-M3438G: PM-760 2,0Ghz; 2x 512MB DDR2-400 (Samsung); 2x 80GB HD (Samsung); _NEC ND-6650A; WinXP SP2 ----------------------------------------------- Amilo Mx43x - Lagging issue ![]() -> info and status -> FAQs and news (@ www.amilo-forum.com) -> discussions -> petition |
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#15 |
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Update
03-06-06
FSC made an official statement about the Lagging Issue: http://support.fujitsu-siemens.de/fo...?p=38001#38001 (English) http://support.fujitsu-siemens.de/fo...?p=37995#37995 (German) Therefore "There is no fix for this issue, as it is a specific determination of components for a notebook system." (FSC). Further discussions will be made here http://support.fujitsu-siemens.de/fo...ic.php?t=14141 (English) I will give more information about the Lagging Issue soon. For all M1437-User: It might be possible that I have a fix for you! (It only works with ATI graphic cards). This fix is not officially supported and BETA. Unfortunately I havent tested it on my own. If you are interested, contect me via PM, E-Mail or somehow else. -> UPDATE! Is seems that the workaround/solution didn't hold for everyone. It is probably not more than a placebo.
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Kind Regards Borkar ----------------------------------------------- FSC-M3438G: PM-760 2,0Ghz; 2x 512MB DDR2-400 (Samsung); 2x 80GB HD (Samsung); _NEC ND-6650A; WinXP SP2 ----------------------------------------------- Amilo Mx43x - Lagging issue ![]() -> info and status -> FAQs and news (@ www.amilo-forum.com) -> discussions -> petition Last edited by Borkar; 05-02-2006 at 03:25 PM. |
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