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Old 03-01-2007, 11:57 AM   #196
Rasken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narg
OK, to prove it's not that big of a deal, let's take the idea that it's only a fluctuating DC current and not truely AC, here's the calculations:

From this web site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage

DC voltage is:


AC Voltage is:


So to get the true DC output from the AC voltage read, lets say 50 volts AC...

V=12/50*cos(60) I'm using 60 as the "phasor angle" between the peaks because it's been too long for me to remember how to get the real angle, but I feel it's close enough to what the frequency of the fluctuations are.

So basically about 1/2 a volt DC. AND at ultra low current at that!

Again, it's been many years since I took an AC/DC curcuitry class, so I'm not batting 1000 on that attempt.

If someone knows a professor that teaches on this subject, please have them give us their viewpoint.
Are you saying that it would produce 1/2 a volt of DC. hmm lets see

If we were to raise the DC voltage of a 7900 gs core with 0.5 V it would give us 1.5 v and the card would be destroyed

Yes i think you have just proved that its not such a big deal
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Old 03-01-2007, 12:28 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasken
Are you saying that it would produce 1/2 a volt of DC. hmm lets see

If we were to raise the DC voltage of a 7900 gs core with 0.5 V it would give us 1.5 v and the card would be destroyed

Yes i think you have just proved that its not such a big deal

You forgot something. The voltage is being read from the screws, which are connected to the ground side of the circuitry. Nowhere near the Vcc lines of any chip on the laptop. The grounding facility in any electronic device is where stray current is supposed to go. That's why the ground paths are there.

That is not a problem.

Last edited by scottwilkins; 03-01-2007 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 03-01-2007, 12:56 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narg
Again, I'd prefer to see someone hook up a scope to the voltage. It is most likely not true AC current, but rather falling and rising DC current caused by normal operation. Normal voltage meters cannot tell the difference between AC and rapidly moving DC currents.
I did hook it up to a scope, and I can confirm it was AC voltage...not rising and falling DC...

This has me absolutely dumbfounded...as I have already said several times...Dell Australia (Asia Pacific) fixed my problem within TWO days of me emailing them about it...what the f*ck is so hard....Dell obsiously work independantly across continents, which is piss poor in situations like this...

I wasnt as concerned about my hardware, as I have never had any memory parity error or any kind of hardware error...I was just getting little tingling zaps from the chassis....but now its all fixed...thanks Dell Asia Pacific!
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Old 03-01-2007, 12:58 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottwilkins
The grounding facility in any electronic device is where stray current is supposed to go. That's why the ground paths are there.

That is not a problem.
It seems the ground path in these notebooks are people's bodies. I consider that a problem. I have no other electrical/electronic device in my home that gives off an electrical current I can feel through the screws.

The bottom line is it shouldn't be there and that's the problem.
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Old 03-01-2007, 01:05 PM   #200
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Narg forget all of your technical crap for a second; pull your head out of your ass and listen. When you pay that much money, stray voltage shouldnt be an issue of any sort, and youre quite honestly a moron if you believe some type of grounding shouldnt be included with a device such as a laptop.

All electronics put out stray voltage, however, its usually channeled through a ground cable. If you really dont think grounding is important in a laptop, or stray voltage isnt a big deal, let some flow across your ram or cpu or motherboard.

Aside from the stray voltage possibly damaging components, the interference it puts off is also unacceptable, as stated by Kraziepop...what good is a multimedia notebook if this stray voltage is going to destroy the multimedia quality? Are you going to tell us next that stray voltage cant cause interference either?

Atma said it pretty damn well too. It SHOULD NOT be there and THAT is the problem.
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Old 03-01-2007, 01:23 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottwilkins
You forgot something. The voltage is being read from the screws, which are connected to the ground side of the circuitry. Nowhere near the Vcc lines of any chip on the laptop. The grounding facility in any electronic device is where stray current is supposed to go. That's why the ground paths are there.

That is not a problem.
I was merly pointing out that 0,5v DC is not harmles for any circutry.
As long as it stays were its supposed to be than thats ok, but i would feel a lot safer if it were channeled to somwere outside the laptop. It's not a car we are talking about.
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Old 03-01-2007, 01:29 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_scotsman
I did hook it up to a scope, and I can confirm it was AC voltage...not rising and falling DC...

This has me absolutely dumbfounded...as I have already said several times...Dell Australia (Asia Pacific) fixed my problem within TWO days of me emailing them about it...what the f*ck is so hard....Dell obsiously work independantly across continents, which is piss poor in situations like this...

I wasnt as concerned about my hardware, as I have never had any memory parity error or any kind of hardware error...I was just getting little tingling zaps from the chassis....but now its all fixed...thanks Dell Asia Pacific!
Well there we have it. A simple and fast fix and one more happy customer.

But wait!! According to some people you got something fixed that wasn't really there!!??
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Old 03-01-2007, 01:45 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasken
Well there we have it. A simple and fast fix and one more happy customer.

But wait!! According to some people you got something fixed that wasn't really there!!??
Only according to Narg.
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Old 03-01-2007, 03:16 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasken
Well there we have it. A simple and fast fix and one more happy customer.
Since Dell Asia Pacific replaced both of my AC adapters promptly, it made me a happy x 2 customer.

As I've mentioned before, my 2 pins bricks were REV A02 and the new 3 pins ones are REV A03, so it's not like there isn't a solution.
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Old 03-01-2007, 03:33 PM   #205
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Yea, but as mentioned before, my 3-pin adapter is a REV A02 ... oh wel! lol..
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Old 03-01-2007, 06:47 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nissanztt90
Narg forget all of your technical crap for a second; pull your head out of your ass and listen.
Please pull YOUR HEAD OUT for a second and read again. ALL electronics have stray voltage.

Again for the hard headed

ALL ELECTRONICS HAVE STRAY VOLTAGE.

got it? Good.

Also, I love how you make stuff up and attempt to prove I said it. Of course electricity of all types causes interference in other electrical items. Try reading the post earlier where I provided a link for Gauss's law. DUH! Stop making sh!t up, OK?

Last edited by Narg; 03-01-2007 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 03-01-2007, 07:01 PM   #207
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All you guys have problems. Not laptop problems, but personal problems.

If you truely believe this is national news worthy, then you've got a lot more to learn about electronics and business both.

All electrical items will have interference possibilities and even voltages here and there. That the way the work. And no, these effects "going accross your motherboard" will not affect them. That's why there are ground paths.

And, scotsman, if you did hook it up to a scope, can you tell us what the RMS values were? If you did hook it up, then the RMS values would be known and you'd probably be able to tell us what they were. And what were both the high and low peak values? A drop in voltage to a scope will always fall further than it's true value. What was the frequency at which the wave became stable? Please prove you did what you say, else there is no reason to assume credibitily. Sorry, but your extreme attitude doesn't allow any such credibitlity unless you can provide some. Just stating you did something doesn't give us much reason to believe it.

Finally, be assured I never said this was a good problem. I only stated it's not nearly the problem most here are screaming it is. I truely believe Dell should have shipped 3 prong adapaters for all laptops. Grounding a computing device is just smart. Period. But, there is no way on earth an AC voltage of any decernable amount to the health of a human can be produced. And, if there is a large stray voltage, it should only affect a laptop that is already marginal in operation to begin with.

Please folks, get a life and get some real advice from someone knowledgable before you spout "the sky is falling", OK? I can say without a doubt, that 99.9999999% of everyone you see on a forum is by no means fully knowledgable in every detail about computers or laptops.
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Old 03-01-2007, 07:06 PM   #208
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I can say without a doubt that no one on earth is "fully knowledgable in every detail about computers or laptops." That doesn't mean that their opinions, observations and experiences aren't useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narg
Please folks, get a life and get some real advice from someone knowledgable before you spout "the sky is falling", OK? I can say without a doubt, that 99.9999999% of everyone you see on a forum is by no means fully knowledgable in every detail about computers or laptops.
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Old 03-01-2007, 07:18 PM   #209
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I can say without a doubt that no one on earth is "fully knowledgable in every detail about computers or laptops." That doesn't mean that their opinions, observations and experiences aren't useful.
Thank you jeremy_r, that's very much what I'm trying to say. Someone "observed" something and now everyone here seems to think they have found a serious problem without taking into consideration the facts. I appriciate opinions, and think that the opinion of replacement is good, but not required. Lighting this fire was never needed. There is more damage going on here than good. And I do not believe that Dell owes anyone here anything other than an operations laptop. As long as that operation occurs within acceptable levels, then there should not be any gripe. Our federal government even outlines those acceptable levels for electrical devices. And so far, no-one here has shown that they have operated outside those levels. (even if anyone here knows what those levels are....) If there was a problem to the level stated by some here, I don't believe that we'd be hearing about it here. Instead that person should have contacted a lawyer, not a bunch of forum techies.
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Old 03-01-2007, 07:59 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narg
Please pull YOUR HEAD OUT for a second and read again. ALL electronics have stray voltage.

Again for the hard headed

ALL ELECTRONICS HAVE STRAY VOLTAGE.

got it? Good.

Also, I love how you make stuff up and attempt to prove I said it. Of course electricity of all types causes interference in other electrical items. Try reading the post earlier where I provided a link for Gauss's law. DUH! Stop making sh!t up, OK?
We get it. If you knew how to read, you might get it too. You must have missed the part where i said that stray voltage is channeled through some type of grounding, not through the bottom of a laptop, through a body, to the earth. Sorry champ, they arent designed so that we become the ground, but once again, think what you want, and if you still dont think putting a stray voltage across a motherboard will hurt, please, take your computer apart, and make a nice little demonstration video for us. Once again, remove your head from your ass.

Whats pretty funny though is that this interference is caused by not utilizing a grounded adapter, yet its not an issue according to you. I guess your head is gonna stay up there for awhile. If you dont have anything useful to contribute to get some of us grounded adapters...piss off.

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