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Aloha!!
Just recieved my Tecra M3.
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Tecra M3-S212TD
Intel® Pentium® M Processor 730 [1.60GHz, 2MB L2 cache, 533MHz FSB], Microsoft® Windows XP Professional (SP2),
nVIDIA® GeForce™ Go 6600 TE 128M w/dedicated 128MB SDRAM
Bluetooth v1.2, 512MB PC4200 DDR2 533MHz SDRAM (512MBx1),
14.1" XGA display (1024x768),
60GB HDD (5400rpm),
DVD/CD-RW Multifunction drive,
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2200BG (802.11b/g),
Bluetooth v.1.2,
Lithium-ion Battery (6-cell, 4700mAh),
Microsoft Works™ Version 8.0,
1-Year Standard Limited Warranty,
Toshiba Executive Nylon Carrying Case
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I must say its really light and well constructed. I'll give it a run for a few days before I write a thorough review. However there are a few initial points that I thought that I should point out.

1- I'm not very happy with the screen. I dont know if this is standard for XGA 14.1 screens, but I thought the CONTRAST would be much better. There are no BLACKS what so ever, just dark greys. I've been working on a "Samsung Syncmaster LCD 151P Porsche" for the past 2.5 years, and there is a MAJOR difference in clarity and contrast. Although its OK..I just dont think this is a good screen for a TOP OF the Line TECRA laptop. Too bad.

2- When on AC, and on FULL POWER mode, the fan gets VERY VERY noisy. Its laughable, more like the FX 5800 fiasco if anyone remembers. And it gets BURNING hot, you simply CANT put it on your lap. It will LITERALLY BURN you in 10-15 minutes. You will also lose your manhood...cuz there are vents on the front too...

3- Contrary to what other guys here felt concerning the touchpad buttons, I dont find them that annoying, though they are not GOOD by any means, just a little different. Any EL CHEAPO HP has better buttons.

4- I ordered a Geforce 6600 128MB, however I cant find any relevant information about it on the lappy. It always says: Geforce 6200 64MB/Geforce 6600 128MB EVERYWHERE!! In Dxdiag, in Device Manager, in Display Properties, in 3DMark system properties, but they ALL say the video memory is 128MB. What really is freaking me out that I got in 3Dmark 2001SE ONLY ~5000 points...what the f!@#..........I havent tried 3Dmark2003 or 2005. Where do u think the trouble is? AA and AF are off, I'm on AC and in full power??!! Could it be divers? How can I download latest drivers. Toshiba has NONE, and Nvidia says to get all ther Geforce GO drivers from Toshiba!?

I'll post some pics, and a thorough review will follow.

P.S. I paid around $1700 for my config, which is quiet reasonable, but there are guys who are going up with their specs all the way to ~2300, there's even someone who just reviewed the M3 who paid ~$3500. Thats a LOT of money to pay to get THIS WASHED OUT SCREEN, NOISY FAN and POOR TOUCHPAD BUTTONS
IMO The TECRA line should be a little MORE REFINED!!

wow...im not liking these reviews of the m3 sounds alot worse than the preceeding m2 ever was. the screen issues may be a not so good screen but it could also be the result of its resolution, it can play some eye tricks on you at times, especially if your used to ultra high quality monitors. the heat and graphics card issues are ones i see as really important and disconcerting, since they need to be addressed right now by toshiba in my opinion. still the saving grace is that you got a decent price, might not be perfect but at least your price was pretty good.

looks like my recomendations are going to be shifting to other models in the tecra line, such as the a4 and s2 if this seems to be a persistant issue with quality.

you can download Nvidia drivers from laptopvideo2go.com. However, in your case, you might just want to take fidget's advice and get a different system, since it seems it's not up to your expectations.

Well I dunno....I actually like the laptop, Especially the SIZE and WEIGHT. On Battery or when u dont use "FULL POWER" the fan is ok...and like I said...the buttons are not that of a deal. Its just the screen is so WASHED out...mmm I dont know...

Anyone here on the forums can tell me how a GEFORCE 6600 128MB gets ONLY ~5000 in 3DMark 2001. BTW, IF U CHECK THE REVIEWS OF THE tecra m3 ON notebookreview,com U WILL SEE THE PICS SHOWING "powered by nvidia" AND NOT AN actual geforce go 6600 sticker!!! JUST LIKE MY LAPPY!!!

IS it possible that I've been suckered into believing this is a DEDICATED 6600 128MB, only that it USES SHARED MEMORY WITH THE SYSTEM JUST LIKE THE 6200TE???

UPDATE: In 3DMark 2005: 1321

Update: 3Dmark 2003: 3663

oymd, perhaps you're ID'ing a difference between the XGA and the UXGA (1400x1050) displays, but, I'd like to suggest you take a look at some settings. I'm presuming you have the same flexibility I do with my 1400x1050 display, which gives me the blackest of blacks and whitest of whites. I happened across a test screen which I can't seem to find right now but when I do, I'll let you know how to find it. Anyway, check the following:

Right-click on your desktop and click Properties.

Ensure your screen resolution is max'd ... and color quality is set to highest (32 bit?)
Then click "Advanced"
Under GeForce Go6200/6600... tab, ensure:
Single Display
Digital Flat Panel
Then click the button, GeForce Go6200/6600...
Play around, but of significance, look at the "color correction" tab ...
be sure the Digital Vibrance is all the way left (not right/off), and center the brightness, contrast and gamma. I have my image sharpening all the way left. Video overlay settings: center hue and saturation. Perhaps this will help.

P.S. While my fan is loud and system generates some heat, it's not nearly as bad as you're describing ... I'm wearing a pair of boxer shorts and I've had my M3 on my lap for 2 hours now (plugged-in). My left leg is a little warmer than my right leg, but not uncomfortable by any means. If your system is that hot with only a 1.6GHz system, I'd suggest you bring it back and try another one. I'm pushing 2.13GHz and full video and I sound cooler than you're running. I don't have front vents either (?).

I'm not defending Toshiba or the M3 ... it's exactly what I wanted and still no regrets after another week. I'm getting used to the stiffer buttons but I'd still prefer less tension.

Good luck / regards,
Rich

In regards to such a low 3dmark 2001 score (5000), the best argument i could come up with would be the documentation on Toshiba's Webpage regarding the graphic processor.
(note, you do have a 6600 TE TE = toshiba edition).

Toshiba published information on what that means on their webpage.
To get to that information:
www.toshiba.com
click on products and services.
click on Notebook Pcs
click on Technical Support
click on Downloads
Select the Tecra M3 system and click GO.
click on the downloads link (in the right frame that appears).
look for the below:
03-01-2005 User Guide/Addenda Addendum Addressing Graphics Specification Update for Tecra M3 (v1.0; 03-01-2005; 25K)

To quote that PDF file:
Updated Information
For Your Computer's Graphics Processor
The following information supersedes that which is
contained in the documentation that shipped with
your Tecra® M3 Series computer, and reflects the
most up-to-date information for your system.
Technology and processor
Graphics 64 Mb nVIDIA® GeForce™ Go 6200 or 128Mb nVIDIA®
GeForce™ Go 6600 256-bit graphics accelerator;
BitBLT hardware, Alpha-blending, Direct3D® and
OpenGL support*
*Graphics processor unit ("GPU") performance may vary
depending on product model, design configuration, applications,
power management settings and features utilized.
GPU performance is only optimized when operating in AC
power mode and may decrease considerably when operating
in battery power mode.
The graphics processor is optimized for *** this specific computer *** (hense the TE, Toshiba Edition)
model and *** GPU performance will be slower than the
standard GeForce™ Go 6200/6600. *** GPU performance is
only optimized at ambient temperatures between 5° C and
30° C (41° F to 86° F) .

PMA500133010



Now if you want a system with a Normal 6600, the Tecra S2 does -not- have a 6600 TE (it has a regular 6600).



Think that might answer the question. The 3dmark 2003 score you posted looks nice though


That all aside, question for you Tecra M3 owners.
Do you have any settings for Nvidia Powermizer under the advanced graphical settings tab? (i.e. can you adjust GPU performance or any other Nvidia powersaving techniques on the NVIDIA tab, or has toshiba disabled these features on this system?????)

Thanks.
---

To riffin-rich:

Its not THAT HOT, but gets uncomfortable on my laps...I'm getting to like the lappy day by day anyhows. The touchpad buttons is not an issue anymore, and I'm getting used to the screen...I did your settings...it helped....but I think I'm just SPOILED by my Samsung 151P LCD that I've been using for ~ 3 years.

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As for "rinthos"

Here are some updated Benchmarks ATER changing the Graphics settings to performance etc...

3DMark 2001: 11900
3DMark 2003: 3663
3DMark 2005: 1321
Aquamark: 21000

I guess these are GOOD numbers....

Now ...for the LOVE of GOD...can SOMEONE tell me the DIFFERENCE between

Geforce Go 6600
&
Geforce Go 6600 TE

NVIDIA'S site states that TE is "TURBO EDITION" and is only provided through OEMs. In the 6200 TE 128MB, the chip has 32MB actual memory and has 96MB SHARED with SYSTEM MEMORY. It CLEARLY STATES THAT THIS IS NOT THE CASE WITH THE 6600 TE, and that it has 128MB DEDICATED MEMORY and is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT CHIP FROM THE 6200 TE actually a VERY ADVANCED DIRECT X 9 CHIP

SO Basically...Is anyone here informed enough to clarify this up. What are the specs and core and memory speeds on the 6200 and 6600 chips? and HOW MANY ARE THEY??

1-Geforce Go 6200
2-Geforce Go 6200 TE
3-Geforce Go 6600
4-Geforce Go 6600 TE

The DIFFERENCES, THEIR DIRECT X capabilities...SHADERS....etc, THEIR CORE SPEEDS, THEIR MEMORY SPEEDS????



BLOODY MARKETING TRICKS!!!!!

just like Radeon 9500pro, vs 9550, vs 9800 128 bit, vs 9800SE.

THANKS!!

Adrian's Rojak Pot has a VERY good article comparing ALL THE MOBILE CHIPSETS and he only mentions the 6200 and the 6600:

http://www.rojakpot.com/default.aspx...var1=98&var2=0

GeForce Go 6200
Architecture: NV44M
Manufacturing Process: 0.11 Micron
Transistor Count: 75 Million
DirectX Support: 9.0c

GeForce Go 6600
Architecture: NV43M
Manufacturing Process: 0.11 Micron
Transistor Count: 146 Million
DirectX Support: 9.0c

GeForce Go6200
Pipelines: 3
Vertex Shader Version: 3.0
Pixel / Texture Pipelines: 4 x 1
Pixel Shader Version: 3.0
Power Management: PowerMizer 5.0

GeForce Go6600
Pipelines: 3
Vertex Shader Version: 3.0
Pixel / Texture Pipelines: 8 x 1
Pixel Shader Version: 3.0
Power Management: PowerMizer 5.0

GeForce Go6200
Core Speed: 300 MHz
Fill Rate: 1200 MTexels/s
Memory Bus Width: 128-bits
Memory Type: DDR
Memory Speed: 150 MHz
Memory Bandwidth: 2.4 GB/s

GeForce Go6600
Core Speed: 375 MHz
Fill Rate: 3000 MTexels/s
Memory Bus Width: 128-bits
Memory Type: DDR
Memory Speed: 350 MHz
Memory Bandwidth: 11.2 GB/s


As you can see, he lists ALL the properties, SO HOW DOES THE TECRA M3's 6600 TE 128MB compare to this 6600 which seems like a MONSTER...it has 11.2 GB/s GRAPHICS BANDWIDTH....I ACTUALLY THOUGHT THAT THIS IS THE VERY SAME CHIP I AM BUYING!!!

ISNT IT THE SAME??

Quote:
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Here are some updated Benchmarks ATER changing the Graphics settings to performance etc...
---

Benchmark scores look much better (remember this is a laptop/notebook, so those scores are -nice- for such a mobile/small system).
In regards to the performance mode though, was that the Nvidia Powermizer option? Or some other option?

In regards to the Nvidia Graphic offerings, here they are in a nutshell.

Geforce Go 6200 = 100% dedicated v-ram.
Geforce Go 6200 TC = Turbo Cache. = has a small amount of dedicated v-ram, and it -also- allocates some system ram for video.
Geforce Go 6200 TE = Toshiba Edition = dedicated v-ram, but gpu is clocked approx. 25% slower than the normal Geforce Go 6200. Also, the TE gpus use additional thermal settings to 'slow down' the Gpu when the temperature reaches certain points. This is to maintain cooler operating environments.

Thus in a nutshell, TE = a slower version of the 6200. TC = uses dedicated + shared v-ram.

Geforce Go 6600 = 100% dedicated v-ram.
Geforce Go 6600TC = Does not exist.
Geforce Go 6600TE = Toshiba Edition = dedicated v-ram but gpu is clocked approx 25% slower than the normal Geforce Go 6600 offerings in order to maintain cooler temps and lower power usage. Also, the TE gpus use additional thermal settings to 'slow down' the Gpu when the temperature reaches certain trip-points (set in the video-bios).


so the tecra M3 definately has 100% dedicated v-ram, however it runs slower by default, and will slow down further when thermal environments reach pre-set temperatures (the pdf file shown above lists the ambient temps).


So conclusion:
TE = Toshiba Edition (Slower Edition)
TC = Turbo Cache (shared v-ram + dedicated v-ram are both used)
oh yeah and Ultra = Ultra (faster edition).

If no designation is present, then consider it "Normal Edition". lol

Hope this clears things up for you. Also, if you have Powermizer (GPU power settings for the graphic chip), could you post a screenshot showing which options it lets you set? (either that or list them if possible) ?
I.e. I'm curious if there are separate settings for Battery and AC, and if you have 2 or 3 options (i.e. slow, medium, fast).

Please let me know, and I hope the info above helps.
---

i dont think you were really misled, you just bought before this little fact came to light, its a byproduct of buyinh early. i would still be a bit bummed, but then again you are still getting a good machine, just not quite the machine you thought you were getting. and personally although i dont like the idea of re-stockin fees, i think in this case it is fair if you decide to return it based solely on the graphics performance.

Well, I was home today and the Tecra M3 arrived. I unpacked it and turned it on and it sounded good at first. Then the "dust buster" kicked in and it was really loud. So I immediately installed mobilemeter and the temp was nearly 69C. I installed rmclock and prime95 and undervolted it using needlenik's great post. Result was that running Prime 95 the fan was only on low instead of high and would actually turn off for 5-10 minutes at a time. Final voltage was 1.052 V (originally 1.356 V) which ran fine for two hours. I'll run it overnight to stress it out good. What's weird is that mobilemeter only recorded some discrete temperatures. Temperatures lower than 55C were reported okay, but the temperature tended to jump from 55C (no fan) to 65C (low fan) to 69C (dust buster). Must be something with the BIOS and Toshibas thermal solution. The extended battery I bought may make it quieter since the inlet is at the bottom and the battery thickness may help airflow. The bottom corner was warm but not hot after undervolting. Any of the notebook coolers available should make this thing even quieter which is a relief. However, I still need to test the graphics chip and the CPU under heavy load together but the undervolting results were encouraging.


I disagree and it's not a "little" fact. I think I was misled and I don't think I was the only one. Saying the performance is lower is fine, but no one expects a 45% drop in performance. I'd expect a 6600 to dramatically outperform an X600 or a 9600/9700 GPU, but in this case it doesn't apppear to. When it gives Toshiba the leg up over competing notebooks, I'd say it is misleading.

I tend to think the consumer should be protected over a company. I think I should not have to pay restocking fees if graphics performance is the issue as it is branded as a 6600. If Toshiba wants to sell a 6600 with lower performance, they should inform the customer of the comparative performance levels or at least the specs of the new part upfront otherwise they are misleading. I'd say if it was a 6600 that ran at 275Mhz, you'd be right. Since it runs at 225Mhz, I think I'm right.

Well this'll be my last post on this thread, no point in repeating the same information over and over.

1) Ibm laptops with the T2 (ati FireGL) video solution contain a Certified OpenGL graphic solution. It is the certified/professional version of the mobility radeon 9600. Totally different League. More money is spent on these systems, and I think the price of the systems should well-reflect this. They are -not- a business thin-light, but a workstation-thin/light class notebook.

2) The Hp Nw8240 is classified by HP as a mobile workstation. You calling it a thin-light is going against what the manufacturer (HP) says. It once again has a certified fireGL video. Thus once again it's a mobile workstation class, not a business-thin+light.

3) The Sony S series has a radeon 9600/9700. It won't hit the 3dmark 2005 scores that the underclocked 6600 will. In fact, it's approx half in 2005 scoring. See for yourself

4) I did not post about the Asus because I do not work with Asus and thus have no knowledge of their products/offerings. Me commenting about them would be throwing out only what i can read from websites and not experience first hand. As such, I left that unmentioned due to my own ignorance.

5) The 9000/9200 hp issue is not the least bit similar. When using ati reference drivers, they identify it as a radeon 9000. In fact, it is 100% identical (specwise) to the radeon 9000 in the presario 2810T compaq notebook (Which was a very limited edition, and did not have the daughter card video, but the same gpu). Sure enough, using the hp drivers makes that system have a 9200 (even though the 9200 didn't exist at the time of the 2810T).
So once again, that's hp saying 9200, giving 9000. For toshiba, they say 6600TE you get a 6600TE. The ambiguity lies in what "te" means. They lightly cover in the published PDF file (and also in fine print) that it will run slower, but they do not directly attribute it to the "TE", so that I can see, but you are getting what you pay for.

Finally, your claim "If Toshiba wants to sell a 6600 with lower performance, they should inform the customer of the comparative performance levels or at least the specs of the new part upfront otherwise they are misleading. I'd say if it was a 6600 that ran at 275Mhz, you'd be right. Since it runs at 225Mhz, I think I'm right." is just plain WRONG.

The Geforce Go 6600 running at 275Mhz is within the -NORMAL- range of a -NORMAL- 6600. As such, if Toshiba clocks a Geforce Go 6600 at 275mhz (gpu), then says it underperforms the 'normal' conditions of the 6600, they would be wrong. Nvidia has never published the specs to the consumers, but they have released 'review configs' and have documented them as such.

Being that the Normal range for a 6600 gpu is 275mhz-375mhz (depending upon notebook vendor's implementation). Also, the vast majority of notebook vendors have them clocked on the lower end for thermal + power consumption reasons.

You can argue all you want, but a 275mhz 6600 = normal. 225mhz = approx 19% slower than 275mhz. As such, it's a 19% decrease in clock speed over a normal Go 6600, not 45% like you claim.

In regards to the Tecra A4, it does -not- use the TE version, thus it's a normal 6600 go (clocked ~275mhz i believe).


Considering your purchase position, I agree that restocking fees for this sort of reason are definately not fair. After all, documentation on what "TE" stands for can only be obtained through nvidia's senior staff (as normal marketing/communication depts may think you mean TC and have little to no knowledge of TE).
Toshiba support likely won't know the answer, although Toshiba Engineering would. Contacting them would definately be a difficult task.

As such, I totally agree that restocking fees should be waved for the first 3-5 business days a system is received as that is more than ample time for someone to examine system specs etc. After that period, any returning would definately cause depreciation + a loss for them, and a restocking fee does make sense, but I can see your perspective and agree with it to some extent. Now granted this is not their policy

Agreed

It doesn't matter what the manufacturer classifies them as, only that the specs are the similar, which they are. There is no official "thin and light" category or "mobile workstation" category set up by any organization so I think it is a matter of semantics. I have to agree that the 9600 is lower than the X600 and 6600 in 3Dmark though.

Well, from what I understood, the 9000 installed in the X1000's was peforming at a higher level than all other 9000 solutions and at the level of other 9200 video cards and as such was equivalent to the 9200.

The question was never if I was getting a fair price, the question is whether I was misled. The price is fair for a 6600TE if you know beforehand what that is.

I was talking about performance. 3Dmark05 scores of ~2200 for the 6600 and ~1200 for the 6600TE. I'm confused as to why my statement is wrong. I thought I was getting a 6600, but I got a lower clocked chip.

That's what I'm talking about... Thank you for that. I also don't think I should have to pay it if I decide to return it in a few days. If the reason was weaker, I would say tough luck, but the only way to find out what the 6600TE really was, was to buy and check it out yourself. That was really my whole point, the restocking fee is a tough pill to swallow if I return it because of the 6600TE.

Is it safe to assume they did this to the A4 as well?